Player Discussion Alain Vigneault Part VI

[Miller Time NYR]

Ill be at the game tomorrow night, sitting in section 220. The last time I sat in 22o the course of the team changed dramatically when Staal took that puck to the eye against the Flyers and his downfall began. Maybe the course of this team will change again , with this stubborn shitbag coach getting canned. Although id rather get a win for my money and a nice welcome back for Step and Raanta a consolation would be seeing AV is done on twitter on the train home.

 

[True Blue]

Then, I guess, the rest of the league figured out how to oppose AV's game plan. And AV's stubbornness became more of an issue.

Did they really figure out how to oppose him? Because the on ice product was very similar, if not identical, to what he had in Vancouver. I would say they played the Rangers the same way. It all comes back to Henke. When he was the best goalie in the league, he covered up many defensive warts.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

AV's first year was good. Parts of the second year were good - our guys made it look easy. Then, I guess, the rest of the league figured out how to oppose AV's game plan. And AV's stubbornness became more of an issue.

So, not even a mention of how the roster personnel has been rotting from within over the last few years? The situation the Rangers are in now is well beyond changing the coach or making a few tweaks.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

So, not even a mention of how the roster personnel has been rotting from within over the last few years? The situation the Rangers are in now is well beyond changing the coach or making a few tweaks.

So, not even a mention about the coach's refusal to adjust to his roster over the last few years? The situation the Rangers are in is not beyond making smart decisions or a few tweaks to the system.

He is going to take what is a bubble playoff roster and play them into bottom 5-8 (or worse) team in the league. That is bad coaching. As was getting booted in the 2nd round last year by a team they should have knocked out in 5, the abomination that was the season prior to that and being hell bent on matching up Brassard's line against the Johnson line in 2015 while opting to watch the Stepan line get their lunch fed to them.

 

[Ori]

Go Away AV

 

[Tawnos]

So, not even a mention of how the roster personnel has been rotting from within over the last few years? The situation the Rangers are in now is well beyond changing the coach or making a few tweaks.

I’m not sure I agree. Changing up the D system to give the diminished goaltender more support would mean fewer goals against, which is the team’s biggest problem. It’s a bigger problem than the roster.

 

[CasusBelli]

I'm usually not a fan of change for the sake of change, and I firmly believe our players have underperformed, but it's time for AV to go. He is rigid and not getting the most out of his players. Drawing a parallel, my fellow soccer fans likely remember the underwhelming season Chelsea had under Mourinho in 2015-2016, before Conti was hired in the summer of 2016. Few would disagree that Mourinho is a world class coach, but he just wasn't getting the much out of his players (just look at Eden Hazard's performance that year vs. his performance the following year).

My point is that teams rent coaches. Sooner or later, no matter how brilliant the coach, either his opponents will adjust to his style or he'll simply lose the locker room. I think both hold right now under AV. Time to go.

 

[Blueshirt Special]

All of this is making me wonder..."What exactly happened in Vancouver anyway?"

 

[True Blue]

All of this is making me wonder..."What exactly happened in Vancouver anyway?"

I think you are looking at it

 

[Riche16]

So, not even a mention of how the roster personnel has been rotting from within over the last few years? The situation the Rangers are in now is well beyond changing the coach or making a few tweaks.

I tend to agree.

We may very well can AV, but if the results don't change will Ruff be the whipping boy or do we just admit that the roster is at best below average right now and playing like poop.

I'm not saying that I have agreed with AV usage of players but I also don't know how much that change would've helped win more games. They have ALL looked like crap... from McD-Hank.

 

[Badko]

I remember a visitor from the Vancouver boards stopping by when we first got AV. He said we would love him the first year or two and then quickly grow tired of him. Boy, was he spot on!

 

[Off Sides]

AVs shelf life being over I can certainly understand, yet replacing him with someone who matches this roster or whatever future roster, or direction or plan, should they have any of that is something that needs to be considered.

If they want a roster that leans offense all the time and takes risks they need some better offensive players and a coach who can deal with that. AV is sort of that coach but he has an odd sense of who is allowed to take risks and make mistakes versus who is not allowed to.

If they want a good defending team, good luck with this roster, but there are coaches who think in such ways.

If they want a good two way team and roster, which is by far the safest way to go, AV is not the right choice, but they also don't have the roster for that either. Without some real game breakers just being a good two way team is not enough.

Similar choices, are they a development team or a anything can happen team?

Change coaching, I tend to agree his shelf life is likely about up, but they need to figure out what type of roster they want and what type of coach fits. That is likely to require some sort of longer term planning than maybe we will buy or sell at the deadlines depending on where we are in the standings or maybe we will sign this player or that one depending on who wants to play for the Rangers.

 

[McRanger]

So, not even a mention about the coach's refusal to adjust to his roster over the last few years? The situation the Rangers are in is not beyond making smart decisions or a few tweaks to the system.

He is going to take what is a bubble playoff roster and play them into bottom 5-8 (or worse) team in the league. That is bad coaching. As was getting booted in the 2nd round last year by a team they should have knocked out in 5, the abomination that was the season prior to that and being hell bent on matching up Brassard's line against the Johnson line in 2015 while opting to watch the Stepan line get their lunch fed to them.

If there are players "rotting" AV probably plays them 22 minutes a night.

 

[True Blue]

If they want a good defending team, good luck with this roster, but there are coaches who think in such ways.

Defense wins championships. Players can be taught defense. Just need a coach who can teach it. AV's defensive strategy is to have the goalie bail him out.

 

[True Blue]

We may very well can AV, but if the results don't change will Ruff be the whipping boy or do we just admit that the roster is at best below average right now and playing like poop.

I do not believe the results would be different, however I also do not believe that AV has been putting his players and the whole team into the position which merits best chance of success.

Management also needs to examine the question of "Is AV a part of the future of this new core or not? If the latter, there is no need to extend his tenure.

 

[Ori]

And no sport journalists ask about Nash TOI concerning production, what are they doing?? They are not doing their jobs properly and so much policy in MSG Networks, most beat writers who live in New York seems clueless.. Maybe with one exception in Larry Brooks who question part of coaching staff and part of management decision making.

 

[Off Sides]

Defense wins championships. Players can be taught defense. Just need a coach who can teach it. AV's defensive strategy is to have the goalie bail him out.

They can teach a system, but they can not teach battle level, or the ability to read the plays or the game situation better. Some players are just naturally better at defense, and I mean in all the zones.

Last night even, late in the period after the two goal lead, while I like they tried to keep pushing, they had two Domi breakaways against. One where 4 players were trapped near the opposing goal, and then the next where "only" three were trapped on the second one. It takes a special type of not worrying about defense and a lack of game situation knowledge for that situation to arise and that was not on all on AV.

 

[Charlie Conway]

Well, at least we're getting some lines with chemistry now.

Vesey - Hayes - Fast ...at least when Vesey doesn't look lost.

Grabner - Nieves - Buchnevich was our best line last night.

Now we just need to come up with the magic formula for Nash, Kreider, Zibanejad, Zuccarello, Desharnais, and Miller.

 

[True Blue]

They can teach a system, but they can not teach battle level, or the ability to read the plays or the game situation better. Some players are just naturally better at defense, and I mean in all the zones.

Battle levels cannot be taught. But they can be instilled. Again, look at Tort's teams.

I agree that some players are naturally better at defense, but being taught and held accountable for defensive awareness comes from a coach. Systems can be tweaked to produce better results and not leave your goalie out to dry all the time.

 

[Off Sides]

Battle levels cannot be taught. But they can be instilled. Again, look at Tort's teams.

I agree that some players are naturally better at defense, but being taught and held accountable for defensive awareness comes from a coach. Systems can be tweaked to produce better results and not leave your goalie out to dry all the time.

Torts had players that were committed to playing in their own zone. Their transition game was terrible, and they left the point open for shots constantly which Boston took advantage of in that playoff series, but they protected the front of their own net.

Hockey is a game of give and take and playing towards what the roster is best at, I just don't see this roster as having many players who naturally lean defensively.

Does not mean I like AVs system but going back to what Torts had them doing would be worse. Somewhere between the two is fine, which is basically what they were doing when AV had the Torts roster and they ended up being good defensively and still were able to transition the puck. Now the pendulum has swung to far away from Torts, but no reason to swing it all the way back.

 

[Irishguy42]

Oh my goodness. We're seriously talking about "battle level"

Can we not? We are not the Capuano Islanders.

 

[NYR]

The difference between Torts and AV is Torts recognized what type of roster he had and even though he’s a defense first type of coach, he fit the system around the roster and put them in the best position to succeed.
He’s openly admitted to not having the horses to play a certain way.

AV does not and will not think like that. His system is the system and that’s it.

How many stretch passes and defensive break downs did we see last night?
Example: Did you see the stretch pass to Buch on his goal?
If we were playing any other team that pass gets picked off and it’s coming back the other way.
Aside from that if Raanta was in net that goal never happens and there’s a good chance we don’t even win the game.

I still maintain that you can have team Canada/USA and they still couldn’t play this system consistently.
It’s just not humanly possible IMO.

The transition from Torts to AV worked because the team was still playing a Torts style back end with the added offense of AV’s breakout.
If that hybrid type setup was still being employed, we’d be looking at a whole different team right now even with the changes of today’s game.

AV is easily countered, never adjusts to the game in front of him, he’s unprepared, unprofessional and and makes the most ridiculous line up decisions I’ve ever seen.

I’m not sure why JG is willing to make roster changes and totally cater to AV’s ever need when it’s just producing worse and worse results.
Is he willing to toss this whole season in the garbage just to appease AV?
So far it looks like he is and it’s a damn shame.

AV needs to go..

 

[Off Sides]

Speaking of the Islanders, and battle level,

Rangers first goal they battled for it. Zucc won a puck battle, and then a bunch of smaller battles won led to the goal.

Islander first goal, the D, that is the opposite of battling. Smith take a lazy swipe at the puck, misses, and what is Brady doing, certainly not on his man battling for position.

 

[Crease]

And no sport journalists ask about Nash TOI concerning production, what are they doing?? They are not doing their jobs properly and so much policy in MSG Networks, most beat writers who live in New York seems clueless.. Maybe with one exception in Larry Brooks who question part of coaching staff and part of management decision making.

Most of the beat writers have been around a long time and are just cruising to retirement. Don't rock the boat. Don't jeopardize what little access their paper has.

 

[GregSirico]

I’m still in the belief that the reason we are so bad is half AV’s fault. Sure we have some roster flaws, an aging goalie, and too many middle of the road pieces and no stars but he does nothing to get the most out of his team. That falls on the coach to make adjustments to play within your rosters strength.