Aho's future relationship with teammates, management and fans

[My Special Purpose]

I was thinking about how the relationship between the Canes, Aho and the fans will play out in light of the offer sheet. Instead of speculating, I thought we could just go to the source, since this isn't the first time we've been involved in the lore of l'offre hostile.

The year was 1998.

After a lengthy holdout to start the 1997–98 season, Sergei Fedorov, 28, a restricted free agent and one of the top 10 players in the league, signed an offer sheet with the ::drumroll:: Carolina Hurricanes worth up to $38 million, including bonuses. The Red Wings matched the offer on February 26, 1998, ending Fedorov's holdout. Fedorov went on to lead the playoffs in goals and help the Red Wings win their second consecutive Stanley Cup that season. They'd win one other Cup during the course of the contract, beating Carolina in 2002.

For our purposes, it's important to note that at no point did we feel Fedorov was "ours." From Detroit's perspective, at no point did they feel he wanted to leave. This was his comment on Feb. 26, after the offer sheet was matched: "While I am returning to the Red Wings with a desire to win another Stanley Cup, I want to add that I have the utmost appreciation and respect for the Carolina Hurricanes," Fedorov said. "Their desire to bring me to their team will never be forgotten. I wish them every success in the future."

Obviously, boilerplate agent-speak, but important boilerplate agent-speak. And something close to what I'd like to hear from Aho once the match is official.

But in the end, the offer sheet drama -- even extremely bitter drama between lifetime rival owners that ended up in court -- was a footnote in Fedorov's career and Wings/Hurricanes history. I don't think the relationship between the Wings and Fedorov was "poisoned" at all, and I don't think the Wings ever felt that he "wanted" to leave. Once the six-year contract was finished, he *did* leave -- signing with the Ducks -- but he was 33 and had won three Cups in Detroit. Not exactly the same situation.

(For those who don't remember 21 years ago, the offer was similar to the Aho offer in that it included a "poison pill" that was designed to make it hard for his team to match. Fedorov's deal included $14 million for signing and $2 million for the 21 remaining regular-season games. However, the most controversial part of the contract was a $12 million bonus payable immediately if Fedorov's team reached the 1998 conference finals (otherwise to be paid in six yearly, $2 million payments). The clause was upheld in court after being challenged by Detroit and the NHL and the Red Wings matched the offer and paid the first bonus. After winning the Cup, Detroit then paid the second bonus. The $28 million Detroit paid Fedorov for 43 total games in 1997–98 remains the largest single-season amount paid to an NHL player.)

Since Aho is only 21, it will be very interesting to see what the next negotiation between him and the Hurricanes will look like in four years. But that's a long way down the road, and lots will change. But for the most part, I don't think l'offre hostile will play any role in the relationship between Aho and management, teammates or the fans for at least the next four years.

Click to read more...

 

[My Special Purpose]

Side note: I also went looking at the 1989 draft. Since Karmanos was such a long-time fan of Fedorov, I wondered why he didn't draft him. You know how we like to joke that we took Zach Boychuk one spot ahead of Erik Karlsson, and Victor Rask one spot ahead of Brandon Saad? Jim Rutherford in 1989 says, "hold my beer:"

1989 draft
Round 3/No. 52 overall HAR Blair Atcheynum
Round 3/No. 53 overall DET Nicklas Lidstrom

4/73 HAR Jim McKenzie
4/74 DET Sergei Fedorov

6/115 HAR Jerome Bechard
6/116 DET Dallas Drake

11/220 HAR John Battice
11/221 DET Vladimir Konstantinov

We did, however, kick their asses in the 5th round with our pick, James Black, playing 343 more games than their guy, Shawn McCosh.

 

[Roboturner913]

he and Turbo will have a slap fight and Coach Rod will give him an atomic wedgie, and all will be forgiven

 

[Roboturner913]

1989 draft
Round 3/Overall 52 HAR Blair Atcheynum
Round 3/Overall 53 DET Nicklas Lidstrom

4/73 HAR Jim McKenzie
4/74 DET Sergei Fedorov

6/115 HAR Jerome Bechard
6/116 DET Dallas Drake

11/220 HAR John Battice
11/221 DET Vladimir Konstantinov

 

[DaveG]

Side note: I also went looking at the 1989 draft. Since Karmanos was such a long-time fan of Fedorov, I wondered why he didn't draft him. You know how we like to joke that we took Zach Boychuk one spot ahead of Erik Karlsson, and Victor Rask one spot ahead of Brandon Saad? Jim Rutherford in 1989 says, "hold my beer:"

1989 draft
Round 3/No. 52 overall HAR Blair Atcheynum
Round 3/No. 53 overall DET Nicklas Lidstrom

4/73 HAR Jim McKenzie
4/74 DET Sergei Fedorov

6/115 HAR Jerome Bechard
6/116 DET Dallas Drake

11/220 HAR John Battice
11/221 DET Vladimir Konstantinov

We did, however, kick their asses in the 5th round with our pick, James Black, playing 343 more games than their guy, Shawn McCosh.

Not to be that guy but gonna be that guy: That wasn't JR.

Can't remember if it was Eddie Johnston or Emile Francis but it was at least a Brian Burke buffer zone away from JR.

I mean c'mon, as if JR would have had that many picks available to whiff with.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Not to be that guy but gonna be that guy: That wasn't JR.

Can't remember if it was Eddie Johnston or Emile Francis but it was at least a Brian Burke buffer zone away from JR.

I mean c'mon, as if JR would have had that many picks available to whiff with.

No, of course you're right. That draft came just after the Whale switched over from Emile Francis to Eddie Johnston, and we -- somewhat famously -- were less than optimally prepared for the draft. It's really incredible how much damage Johnston was able to do in three years and one day.

 

[Cane mutiny]

I'm kind of surprised and curious at how quiet Aho and management have been since the early 'we're matching' statement, and the weird phone fail.

 

[DaveG]

I'm kind of surprised and curious at how quiet Aho and management have been since the early 'we're matching' statement, and the weird phone fail.

Aho at least can't publicly make any kind of statement until after the fax, email, or whatever it is comes over to the league offices and he signs the dotted line with us.

Management said what they need to say on the presser.

The only side that's surprisingly silent to me is the agent, and I'm wondering if Aho basically went "dude, STFU before you make things worse and burn bridges with eiher team".

 

[Cane mutiny]

I just wish they'd get it over and done. They're making me nervous the closer it gets. I keep having visions of Waddell having a car wreck, or some sort of thing, and missing the deadline.

 

[traffic cone]

1989 draft
Round 3/No. 52 overall HAR Blair Atcheynum
Round 3/No. 53 overall DET Nicklas Lidstrom

4/73 HAR Jim McKenzie
4/74 DET Sergei Fedorov

6/115 HAR Jerome Bechard
6/116 DET Dallas Drake

11/220 HAR John Battice
11/221 DET Vladimir Konstantinov

That’s some serious drafting by Detroit right there.

 

[Canes]

Honestly I'm not worried at all, especially how it's going to affect his relationship with teammates given how a lot of them made positive posts on twitter when we announced that we were going to match the offer sheet.

And to be honest about his relationship with management, I'm going to chalk it up as a learning experience for Waddell and that neither side will hold a grudge.

IMO, this all happened due to a perfect storm between a rusty GM having an inflated opinion about himself after a miraculous run to the ECF going into the offseason and a desperate GM thinking he could pull a fast one on a new owner/GM combo that he underestimated regarding their financial resources (or bought into the cheapness narrative like some random fan on the interwebs).

As for Waddell's side of the equation, I do think he was maybe a bit full of himself thinking he could just drag this out all offseason, and he hasn't really had to be a GM for several years, and when he was the Thrashers GM he never really had the success or responsibility of GMing a good team. Even with all of his experience throughout the years, this is still a bit of a learning experience for him. I think he'll definitely learn to not take negotiating with free agents for granted from here on out. But I do have to kind of excuse him a bit considering there hasn't been an offer sheet in several years so I can see how he was totally caught off guard... yet I still wonder why Aho was the first one to sign one in quite awhile. We may never know exactly.

Which brings me to BargainBin and Aho's agent... I think this was a move to benefit them both. Aho gets his 5 year deal and gets to UFA quicker than we would have liked and BargainBin has .01% chance of actually getting Aho while Montreal fans drink the Kool-Aid about how he's aggressively trying to build the team. And when we match the offer sheet, he has already created enough of a distraction to keep people from talking about how poor of a GM he is, and Montreal fans spend all offseason taking shots at the Hurricanes for robbing them of their god given rights to Aho.

 

[Lempo]

But I do have to kind of excuse him a bit considering there hasn't been an offer sheet in several years so I can see how he was totally caught off guard... yet I still wonder why Aho was the first one to sign one in quite awhile. We may never know exactly.

It was an unorthodox approach, but the alternative was that the negotiations on the terms drag until September. With the recent case of the high-profile post-ELC Nylander holdout there was a legit risk of it dragging even longer, and everyone's need to save face would have been a further issue making it harder to resolve.

I don't know how this post-ELC class is taking the dragging of negotiations. Laine just yesterday claimed in the Finn press he hadn't talked with his agent for weeks. That's... a bit hard to believe, with the offre hostile gamechanger. It may be Aho was kind of taking one for that team too by kicking in the gear at this point.

Seeing that it was July 1 and Aho camp told the team on Friday they would make a counter offer suggests it was a thoughtout plan to go the OH way. That close relation of Gerry to the Hab brass...

Remember Teuvo telling in the spring he's glad it's done now and now he can concentrate on being worth it. That's a Finnboy looking at it.

The AAV is good and what it should be for both sides, the duration is Aho's insisted five. In the circumstances Aho let money on table, and he wasn't thinking the Habs when doing that.

Like, who does sign a fair offre hostile when the player rationale for OH kind of is to push and force the best SPC you can get from any team? He pushed and forced the years, but at the same time they absolutely knew Canes would match it even in the lower 1-1-2-3 tier, and we got the GM explicitly amazed of the low AAV.

It was the station war on the duration that needed resolving. Now, so everyone can have a relaxed summer.

 

[Canes]

It was an unorthodox approach, but the alternative was that the negotiations on the terms drag until September. With the recent case of the high-profile post-ELC Nylander holdout there was a legit risk of it dragging even longer, and everyone's need to save face would have been a further issue making it harder to resolve.

I don't know how this post-ELC class is taking the dragging of negotiations. Laine just yesterday claimed in the Finn press he hadn't talked with his agent for weeks. That's... a bit hard to believe, with the offre hostile gamechanger. It may be Aho was kind of taking one for that team too by kicking in the gear at this point.

Seeing that it was July 1 and Aho camp told the team on Friday they would make a counter offer suggests it was a thoughtout plan to go the OH way. That close relation of Gerry to the Hab brass...

Remember Teuvo telling in the spring he's glad it's done now and now he can concentrate on being worth it. That's a Finnboy looking at it.

The AAV is good and what it should be for both sides, the duration is Aho's insisted five. In the circumstances Aho let money on table, and he wasn't thinking the Habs when doing that.

Like, who does sign a fair offre hostile when the player rationale for OH kind of is to push and force the best SPC you can get from any team? He pushed and forced the years, but at the same time they absolutely knew Canes would match it even in the lower 1-1-2-3 tier, and we got the GM explicitly amazed of the low AAV.

It was the station war on the duration that needed resolving. Now, so everyone can have a relaxed summer.

Solid post @Lempo. I'm still just unsure of the Aho/Waddell negotiations. I mean I doubt we'll ever know exactly but I appreciate your admittedly more informed insight.

 

[Lempo]

Solid post @Lempo. I'm still just unsure of the Aho/Waddell negotiations. I mean I doubt we'll ever know exactly but I appreciate your admittedly more informed insight.

Judging by the statements Waddell was looking for a war of attrition type of grind to go far into the Fall to try and get the extra years specifically. The final salary was already kind of there in the approximate middle of the opening bids of the parties. It was all about the duration.

We can probably safely assume that the real reason Aho didn't want to negotiate until after the season was that he was betting on himself and it was paying off. Then the numbers were up there in May and he was ready to contract. But by courtesy you don't sign during the playoffs and steal the thunder from the teams still playing, so that took it to June.

Come late June, it was clear it was to be OH or the attrition.

 

[Lempo]

Kimmo Timonen actually has commented on Laine situation. There was the Bermuda tennis tournament yesterday that annually draws our NHL players there.

" Actually I chatted with Laine and asked what's the situation. He said he hasn't heard much and he hasn't much been thinking about it either. Good for him if you can take it like that. But I think that it circles a little bit in the back of your head still. We're all humans here. You don't want to admit it, but surely it's in your thoughts some bit."

"It certainly does help though that he for certain won't be left without a contract."

Timonen also tells of the gentlemen's agreement on offres hostile that he has understood it is a pretty strict unwritted rule that you don't do them.

 

[Lempo]

And if we further feedback loop to Sara:



Seb knew the contract he was to sign he was to sign with Canes. He took the draft version they had done with Canes, inked 5 into the years line, and took it to MB.

"We put in ze outrageous sinus bonus."
"Yes, you do that."

 

[My Special Purpose]

Solid post @Lempo. I'm still just unsure of the Aho/Waddell negotiations. I mean I doubt we'll ever know exactly but I appreciate your admittedly more informed insight.

Judging by the statements Waddell was looking for a war of attrition type of grind to go far into the Fall to try and get the extra years specifically. The final salary was already kind of there in the approximate middle of the opening bids of the parties. It was all about the duration.

We can probably safely assume that the real reason Aho didn't want to negotiate until after the season was that he was betting on himself and it was paying off. Then the numbers were up there in May and he was ready to contract. But by courtesy you don't sign during the playoffs and steal the thunder from the teams still playing, so that took it to June.

Come late June, it was clear it was to be OH or the attrition.

The only thing I have to caution against is suggesting Dundon/Waddell did anything "wrong" or "miscalculated" somehow. They literally did the same thing as the GMs of Toronto (Marner), Winnipeg (Connor/Laine), Philly (Provorov), Tampa Bay (Point), Calgary (Tkachuk) and Colorado (Rantanen). The only reason Dundon/Waddell are getting picked on for lowballing or negotiating in bad faith is because their guy signed an offer sheet. I mean, the news is out now that Montreal also offered Point, and he turned it down. Somehow, that's not only not a negative against BriseBois, but it's a positive? Why? He could be offering no more than Point's QO. We don't know.

Maybe I'm just old, but I simply don't get the need to drag everything out as long as possible. Kevin Paul Dupont actually had a fantastic article in the Boston Globe a few days ago about the Aho offer sheet, that then focused on the Bruins and their three RFAs (McAvoy, Carlo and Heinen, who filed for arbitration, so he's pretty much signed). Basically, Sweeney is fed up. He just doesn't understand the need to go back and forth, week-after-week, wasting everybody's time and energy, for a few dollars.

Especially McAvoy. He doesn't have enough service time to qualify for an offer sheet, and he's not arbitration eligible. Essentially, he has one decision to make. Do I want to play hockey next season or not? With that backdrop, why not just tell your agent to get the best deal he can get and be done with it? What else is McAvoy going to get from waiting? Nothing is going to change about his situation. It makes me nuts and I can't be the only one.

If I'm the GM, I make *one* call to McAvoy's agent and say "call me when you want to make a deal, we'll spend one hour on the phone, and if we don't have an agreement by the end of the call, your guy can sit out the season." Then I'd just forget about it.

Honestly, I'd do the same thing with the offer-sheet eligible guys, too. Work out a deal with anyone you want. Then you'll be signed. All this waiting benefits *nobody*.

 

[Lempo]

Maybe I'm just old, but I simply don't get the need to drag everything out as long as possible. Kevin Paul Dupont actually had a fantastic article in the Boston Globe a few days ago about the Aho offer sheet, that then focused on the Bruins and their three RFAs (McAvoy, Carlo and Heinen, who filed for arbitration, so he's pretty much signed). Basically, Sweeney is fed up. He just doesn't understand the need to go back and forth, week-after-week, wasting everybody's time and energy, for a few dollars.

Trouba held out on Jets in 2016, and finally signed on Nov 7. It was hardly a surprise that when that contract was up, in 2018 he filed for Arbitration. This year, the same thing.

The hearing in Arbitration is harsh business as the team is there telling the arbitrator why you ain't worth a ****, but what you get is a certainty that by a named late summer day you will be signed (or UFA, if the club uses the walk away right it gets in player-initiated Arbs ending with a ~$4M+ award).

Apparently the attrition for "few dollars" is worth it in real money for the teams. Makes sense for the team in the economistics way of looking: the money saved/gotten by prolonging it is of more value to the team than the player, which theoretically should mean it benefits the team in the negotiation.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

The team mates aren't gonna give a crap about how the negotiations went or what he got. And neither should the fans. Like Dundon said, Aho used the leverage he had to get the contract he wanted. Five year contracts are the hottest new thing in town. Nothing to see here.

And you know what? If the team completely shits its pants in the next 5 years, I won't blame Aho for walking away.

It won't though. It's gonna be a great team boys.

 

[emptyNedder]

It won't though. It's gonna be a great team boys.

This is the one that concerns me a little. On the Canes side we are all comfortable with the theory that Bergevin was creating a distraction for not significantly improving the Habs.

However, have we been distracted?

Added: Haula, Reimer, Forsling, Forsberg, Gibbons
Lost: de Haan, McElhinney, Ferland?, Williams?

Truth is if the Canes don't re-sign/replace Ferland and Williams they have not improved. It is basically counting on Svechnikov and Aho to reach another level and Necas to have a significant impact as a rookie.

 

[Vagrant]

the teammates aspect is always no big deal. now more than ever, you see players encouraging each other to get as much as they can as soon as they can even if it requires extreme measures. a lot of players quietly supported the nylander situation last year and that was much worse than signing an offer sheet. everyone with a brain knows aho likes playing here, he just needed a contract and he got one. the fact that there is another team in the nhl that aho would play for should be no surprise to anyone. it feels like a slight of some kind for "our player" to have engaged with an enemy but at the end of the day every single one of these guys are about getting paid before they're about being loved. if this shattered some sort of monogamous illusion, perhaps it's best to have that happen now.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

This is the one that concerns me a little. On the Canes side we are all comfortable with the theory that Bergevin was creating a distraction for not significantly improving the Habs.

However, have we been distracted?

Added: Haula, Reimer, Forsling, Forsberg, Gibbons
Lost: de Haan, McElhinney, Ferland?, Williams?

Truth is if the Canes don't re-sign/replace Ferland and Williams they have not improved. It is basically counting on Svechnikov and Aho to reach another level and Necas to have a significant impact as a rookie.

I do not think losing Williams is a big deal. Really. He did score a lot of points last season, but he also spend a lot of time on the first PP unit and with Aho, which elevated his stats. I know he's a Hurricane legend, leader and a stand up guy, but even last season he took as much as he gave. Besides he might still sign.

Martin Necas just played 9th highest scoring 19 -year old season ever in the AHL. I think he'll find his way on your "Added" list next season. I feel like people should be a lot more hyped about him.

De Haan's lost is annoying because he wanted to be in Carolina, but it does not cripple the team. The defensive core is great.

McElhinney....well, while he did play a fantastic season, he's still an old backup goaltender, not exactly a rock you should cling on to.

Ferland is a marginal loss considering how his second half went.

Then you take into account the fact that Andrei Svechnikov will very likely not be the 20+17 3rd line winger next season. I'm expecting him to play a top 6 role, be stapled on the #1 PP and score at least 60 points. Plus we should expect to see other young players have natural progression too. Aho isn't a finished product. Teuvo learned to play on his own last season. They'll come back better.

TLDR: I don't think losing old farts and a broken power forward can stop the Jerk Train. Be more excited about the youth!

 

[AD Skinner]

I'd put money on Williams coming back. Not like serious money but I'm pretty certain he wont be able to step away

 

[lawrence]

If anything their teammates would understand him, and wouldn’t change a damn thing.

 

[spockBokk]

It all comes down to on-ice performance. If Aho comes in and duplicates or, even better, improved upon his numbers from last year, absolutely no one will care about this past week. If he regresses, well then, things might get interesting, but there’s no way, IMO, he’s traded til year 3 or 4 of his new deal. I think he’ll be given every opportunity to re-endear himself to the fans, if that’ll even be a thing.

The point made above about Necas...I’m super excited for him to be an NHL mainstay, but I think he’ll definitely need a year or 2 more to become the player he’s projected to be. If he ends the season with 10g, 25a, while staying with the big club all year, I think that would be resounding success. It’d be great if he saved his true breakout year (60-70pts while playing C) for the first year of very reasonable bridge contract...yr 4 of the Aho deal...so the team could point to a potential Aho replacement, if it ever comes to that.