News Article: Agents Poll: Dubas voted the best GM to get client a good deal from

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Lol,
Comparing like to like is a pretty big part of doing analysis. A muchbigger part than ad hominem attacks actually. How good a player is in their peak and late 20's, if they've already started to see a decline, all indicators of their expected fall off.
Kudos for at least trying, but you're flailing in the wind.
Heatley- fell off a cliff at 29 and was essentially done by 31. Barely qualifies at 20th in scoring, .89 ppg
Gaborik- couldn't stay healthy his entire career, relied on his speed. From 30-34 averaged 50 games per season. Again barely qualifies at 20th, .95
Spezza-good comparison as a cerebral centre. No where near top 20 due to injury, .99. Remained a 60-70 point C until 33, fell off at 34
Nash- a mediocre winger overrated because of tools and international play. 60th in scoring, .73 (no where near qualifying
Staal- another good comparison. 13th, .88. Had down seasons from 29-31, then had 65 and 76 point seasons at 32 and 33
Perry- again barely qualifies at 18th and .88. Decline happened suddenly at 29, held 50+ point level from 29-32

So a scattering of wingers that either flamed out early/ due to injury/ or just weren't as good, a couple of centres that actually support the idea that there's a decent chance he'll remain productive. You missed Lecavalier as probably your best support. But even he was productive, just ground down by injuries.

Against all of the the stars that were consistent to 29 then continued into their early-mid 30's.
like i said , i just took a quick look and found numerous examples and just as i expected i was wasting my time since you made up fairy tales to dismiss them all

this guy was over rated , that guy didn't put up exactly the same amount of points , this guy was a winger etc , the thing you left out was that all were considered star player at there peak regardless of how hard yo're trying to diminish them as players

and if you want to talk about over rated then JT is right there , the guy is the the DeRozen of hockey , he puts up stats but doesn't move the needle to make teams better , the Islanders are no worse without him and we're no better with him

but how about we end this discussion and wait a 2/3 years and we'll see which one of us is right ?
 
Marleau wouldn't have said so. And nor should he. The Leafs' signed the contract. Marleau continues to play. He would not have allowed his career to be ended to get the Leafs' out the bind they chose to put themselves in.

The way to avoid bad contracts is to not sign them. It is not to bully one of the most respected players in the game, who wants to continue playing and has continued his very long iron man streak, to fake a career ending injury with all parties likely committing insurance fraud in the process (which the insurance company would definitely investigate, unless the contract was either uninsured or the Leafs chose to not make an insurance claim in which case the other teams would demand an investigation, Toronto would lose, they would have to immediately trade players to become cap compliant and would probably be penalized a first for their actions).
While I agree in principle Toronto did not sign a large CAP deal expecting an ECHL player in year 2 either. It is never an issue of $$$ with Leafs. His contract is petty cash to them. Callahan had a nice degenerative issue too. But he stills skates pretty good too.
 
While I agree in principle Toronto did not sign a large CAP deal expecting an ECHL player in year 2 either.

Which is why you stick to one-year contracts for 35+.

Callahan had a nice degenerative issue too. But he stills skates pretty good too.

Callahan had missed several games with back issues, and left several games with back issues. He did not want to retire and also got additional opinions, who confirmed the original diagnosis. It would not have worked with Marleau.
 
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like i said , i just took a quick look and found numerous examples and just as i expected i was wasting my time since you made up fairy tales to dismiss them all

Want to see another quick look?

Elite Prospects - NHL Stats All-time season
Here's a list of 162 times that a player over 30 scored 65 points since the 05 lockout. 223 60 or more.
343 that played at a 60 point pace but missed some time to injury.

So an average of 24 per year. But hey, you found "numerous examples" highlighted by a guy that was held to together with rubber bands his entire career and another that had one single 70 point season, and a couple that ran counter to your point. Some player's do fall off early. But clearly many/most true consistent stars who don't run into injury trouble remain 1st line contributors into their 30's. You're free to bank on Tavares being one of the few.

As for ending the discussion, I think I just did.
 
Want to see another quick look?

Elite Prospects - NHL Stats All-time season
Here's a list of 162 times that a player over 30 scored 65 points since the 05 lockout. 223 60 or more.
343 that played at a 60 point pace but missed some time to injury.

So an average of 24 per year. But hey, you found "numerous examples" highlighted by a guy that was held to together with rubber bands his entire career and another that had one single 70 point season, and a couple that ran counter to your point. Some player's do fall off early. But clearly many/most true consistent stars who don't run into injury trouble remain 1st line contributors into their 30's. You're free to bank on Tavares being one of the few.

As for ending the discussion, I think I just did.
JT makes 11m per year , 65pts for 11m is a huge cap anchor so why don't you post a list of how many players produce 80 plus points a year so he can somehow justify his salary instead of lowering the bar to 65 and acting like you've proven something ,
 
JT makes 11m per year , 65pts for 11m is a huge cap anchor so why don't you post a list of how many players produce 80 plus points a year so he can somehow justify his salary instead of lowering the bar to 65 and acting like you've proven something ,

104 at point per game or better. Same list!

And like I said last night, 5 years earning a contract and a couple as a somewhat overpaid 1st liner player is a successful signing. A 1st line player being a couple million overpaid is not an anchor. Leave hyperbole to the talking heads, let them look silly.
 
There’s two sides to the polls. Dubas is the easiest gm to deal with so there’s a likelihood that he gives good contracts. On the other hand, this makes it easier for him to target top ufas should he choose to pursue then. I would imagine corporate culture is one component of negotiation where he wants to make toronto an enticing place to play in- in other words, if you play in toronto, you will get taken care of. This is similar to how the owner of little caesar’s turned detroit into one of the most attractive markets to play for.

lou is the opposite, but i doubt players and their agents are lining up to negotiate with him. Even when he was in nj, i can’t remember if they got a ufa signing other than kovalchuk. I find it odd how he overspent for marleau and zaitsev.
The Tavares signing is gonna kill us in the back half of the deal. Oh and the drama that will take place because he is captain will be next to nothing we have seen before with a Leafs player.
When that signing happened, i remember not being totally on board. People blame marner, matthews contract and for some reason nylander, but not enough talk about tavares. He’s probably playing at his best and we should start seeing his decline in a couple of years. Even at his best, is he really worth 11million?
 
When that signing happened, i remember not being totally on board. People blame marner, matthews contract and for some reason nylander, but not enough talk about tavares. He’s probably playing at his best and we should start seeing his decline in a couple of years. Even at his best, is he really worth 11million?

What's even crazier to think about is that San Jose or NYI were gonna give him 13.5 million or a "blank cheque". He actually gave us a home town discount which made the better players not give us a discount. So was it really a home town discount after all?
 
So Matthews and marner wanting to be paid more than Tavares did not play into contract negotiations?
Tavares was signed under very different circumstances; he was not a comparable for Matthews or Marner. Marner also isn't paid more than Tavares.
 
So Matthews and marner wanting to be paid more than Tavares did not play into contract negotiations?

Maybe Marner, but I think he looked more at Matthews.

I don't think that Tavares signing in Toronto changed Matthews approach one bit. He wanted everypenny that the market would bear, and he wasn't using 11x7 to justify it.
 
The big mistake was signing Matthews before Marner.
This was not a mistake. Signing Matthews before he hit RFA status, and avoiding both of them hitting RFA status at the same time, was the #1 priority. Marner was not willing to negotiate until after the season.
 
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104 at point per game or better. Same list!

And like I said last night, 5 years earning a contract and a couple as a somewhat overpaid 1st liner player is a successful signing. A 1st line player being a couple million overpaid is not an anchor. Leave hyperbole to the talking heads, let them look silly.
so you've switched from actual points to ppg , you really need to stay consistent

and is the 104 the number of players 30 and older that had a ppg season or the number of times a player 30 year had a ppg season ? because Sid and Geno alone have 7 ppg seasons so your 104 would drastically drop if it's based on players which we discussing
 
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So Matthews and marner wanting to be paid more than Tavares did not play into contract negotiations?
the ''true fans'' will never admit it but as soon as JT signed that was floor AM/MM had for their negotiations

and i don't blame them , there both better than JT and they were responsible for us leaving the toilet we were swirling in for over a decade
 
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so you've switched from actual points to ppg , you really need to stay consistent

and is the 104 the number of players 30 and older that had a ppg season or the number of times a player 30 year had a ppg season ? because Sid and Geno alone have 7 ppg seasons so your 104 would drastically drop if it's based on players which we discussing
I've used both points and points per game in pretty much every post I've made in this discussion. Your inability to hold two very similar concepts in mind at the same time is not inconsistency on my part.

As to your second "point" it's the number of seasons not players. It's a proxy that shows how regular it is. If you'd like to go through and pare that down be my guest, it's still going to be a lot of players.
 
I look at the G/O and go with what my buddies who have coached these kids since they could p*ss say. As the G/O go so does da hockey world. It has been like that from beginning. And the 2020 draft is loaded and deep. What you are talking about was the age 97 draft which I know like clockwork. The talent up top was amazing but it dropped off a cliff after pick 25. This draft is not like that draft it has 75-90 guys who can play in da NHL.

Well we will see about 2022 I guess but from what I have seen, it's not likely going to be any worse than many of the previous years but will have a stacked top 10. Better than any draft probably since 2015. Canada alone has three premier prosects in Wright, Savoie and Luneau who should be blowing some socks off, and Lambert will be in that draft too. However I am only judging that based on like AAA and a few of the European prospects I know, and a lot can change in two years as guys transition into the CHL and U20 leagues.

2020 is not nearly as deep as you think it is. Even Bob McKenzie has said that it's mostly a top 10-15 draft and it is pretty much average after that... And I can tell you right now that it is only average because of the wingers. It's a good winger class (and even then a lot of it is boom-bust), a crap goalie and center class, and a pretty much average defensive class. I would be shocked if there are 75-90 NHL guys that come out of here, because most of them have a lot of work that needs to go perfectly to even have a shot at the NHL.

You are probably judging it based on Canada's contribution. This year is probably the best Canada draft since 2015, and Germany/Austria are making up for the fact that Switzerland has practically nothing, but it's also the worst USA draft in a long time, and even Russia and Finland are mostly just 'meh' outside of a few guys each. Sweden has a good high end but the rest of the draft is pretty much as good as it has been for the past little while as well. So I would say it's an average class at best, and the lack of center and goalie prospects can easily make it a below average class. I can say this as someone who has studied these guys since last year, and have been building various models ranking these guys.

Next year's "terrible" class does not have nearly as many high end wingers, but they have a lot better defense, center and goalie prospects. Really the main thing is there are not any Lafreniere or Byfield prospects, but L'Heureux, Roy, Reynolds, Bourgault, Belliveau, Clarke, Othmann, Johnson, Ceulmans, Power, Cossa, Lennox, Gaudreau, Guenther, Lambos, Sillinger, Stankoven, Chayka, Korczak, McTavish, Pinelli, Dean, Malatesta, Robidas, Huckins, Kidney, Whynot... That's a pretty strong Canadian class again next year, and it is a mix of all positions, just like the rest of the draft. USA and Finland is much better too. Russia is TBD, and Sweden is pretty much the same kind of depth, including a top 15 goalie prospect in Wallstadt.
 
I've used both points and points per game in pretty much every post I've made in this discussion. Your inability to hold two very similar concepts in mind at the same time is not inconsistency on my part.

As to your second "point" it's the number of seasons not players. It's a proxy that shows how regular it is. If you'd like to go through and pare that down be my guest, it's still going to be a lot of players.
you switch back and forth from points to ppg from post to post depending on what fits your argument better , it has nothing to do with trying to have a reasonable discussion

and considering we were discussing how many players still produce at a high level at 30 and over there's no f***ing reason to add it up by seasons unless of course your trying to make it look much more common than it is which is obviously what your trying to do
 
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