After top 10 all time- rank top 5 Most Overrated / underrated players all time?

[frisco]

Overall, during his almost-10 year Hartford career, Francis was (min. 250 games played) the 18th best point producer in the NHL, which is quite good but it's also equal to Rob Brown

Um, using a 250-game threshold for a ten year period is ridiculous. Also, then using that low threshold and comparing points/game (and the term "point producer") and coming up with Ron Francis = Rob Brown is about an intentionally misleading and deceptive a post I've seen on here in years. There's no credibility here.

My Best-Carey

 

[The Panther]

Um, using a 250-game threshold for a ten year period is ridiculous. Also, then using that low threshold and comparing points/game (and the term "point producer") and coming up with Ron Francis = Rob Brown is about an intentionally misleading and deceptive a post I've seen on here in years. There's no credibility here.

My Best-Carey

Having a bad day frisco? (I see this thread gave you another chance to crap on your favorite player, Paul Kariya, so I thought that would lift your spirits.)

 

[Guttersniped]

FWIW Brodeur didn't win any Vezinas until Hasek & Roy were past their prime and/or retired. The competition was also much weaker in the years before & after the lockout.

& one could make the argument at least two of those should've gone to someone else / he wasn't the runaway best goalie in the league.



Gretz fits both quite easily.

Patrick Roy won his last Vezina in 1992-93. That was Broduer’s 1st season in the NHL and he played in a 4 games.

Roy didn’t block Brodeur from winning any Vezinas, both got beat out by a more dominate goalie who won 6 of them.

Roy typically gets ranked over Brodeur due to his better playoffs record, which is pretty incredible.

Not sure there’s an argument that Roy was a better regular season goalie than Brodeur and he was definitely yesterday’s news once Hasek came in.

 

[wetcoast]

Overrated:
Jonathan Toews
Jason Arnott
Shayne Corson
Steve Shutt
Clark Gillies

Underrated:
Gilles Meloche
Mike Bossy
Robert Svehla
Reijo Rustolainen
Vincent Damphousse

User name checks out.

As for these lists some of the under rated guys get so downgraded that they become under rated and some of the over rated guys are that way because of SC and team dynamics.

For example I have no idea on how Mike Bossy can be under rated or Reijo Rustolainen who could skate and score but wasn't a very good defender.

 

[McJedi]

Overrated. Carey Price. Guy has terrible stats once he turned 30. Wasn’t a great goalie for his entire career. Was actually pretty terrible starting G for the back half of it. And then he had to retire several years early.

 

[Voight]

I am biased against him since he turned down a trade to the Bruins to take what seemed like an easier road in Pittsburgh. It seemed to me he was a very good "power forward", who hung on too long, and tarnished his legacy over the last third of his career. He was a nice guy and a hard worker, but I never saw anything beyond that for leadership qualities either.

He was still resonably productive at age 37, scored 59 points.

One thing I'll never understand is why he signed with the Avs. For a guy whos resume was missing a cup and had a great rep around the league, why go with them.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Overrated:

Drew Doughty -- Most overrated player ever for me, despite what's on his resume.
Gary Roberts -- Even as a Leaf fan, he is right up there as most overrated player ever. Hardest working, sure, but he never tickled my fancy.
Jonathan Toews (!!!!!) -- Ever since the World Juniors shootout...
Rick Nash -- Way overhyped. He fits into the Sundin mold, but 10x.
Jarome Iginla -- Great player, but I always found him to be hyped more than he was.
BONUS: Scott Niedermayer -- I don't know...amazing player, but he never screamed one of the all-time greats. He just didn't do it for me. Steady as it comes though.

Underrated:

Ron Francis -- Top 5 point getter of all-time and you wouldn't even know it.
Chris Pronger -- For me, he should be more talked about as one of the greatest defenceman of all time, even over Lidstrom. He had everything.
Vincent Damphousse -- Almost like he is the poster child for players who are underrated.
Joe Niuewendyk -- See Damphousee.
Pekka Rinne -- Very good goalie, who always seemed like an afterthought during his playing days.

 

[Ratelleitlikeitis]

Underrated

Gilbert Perrault
Rick Middleton
Denis Savard
Jacques Lemaire
Ed Giacomin

 

[Sheppy]

Overrated:
Jonathan Toews
Carey Price
Marc Andre Fleury
Grant Fuhr
Ilya Kovalchuk

Underrated:
Brian Propp
Bernie Nicholls
Pat Verbeek
Rick Middleton
John Bucyk

 

[frisco]

Having a bad day frisco? (I see this thread gave you another chance to crap on your favorite player, Paul Kariya, so I thought that would lift your spirits.)

Noticed you didn't respond to what I said.

And when has it been a crime to have players you don't like? Not a Kariya fan. Doesn't make me a bad person.

My Best-Carey

 

[North Cole]

After a top 10 all time list, I want to see something completly reverse. Who is your top 5 most overrated players all-time?

If you want more positivity, rank your top 5 most underrated all time.

Ill go

Overrated
Kevin Lowe
Taylor Hall
Fuhr
Niewendyk (top 100 all time??)
Lecavalier
D Hatcher if he ever was considered any good.

Underrated

Sakic
Larry Murphy
Kariya
Pavelski
Leetch

Lmao what is this list, the most overrated Oilers of all time? The only people Kevin Lowe is overrated by is his friends. I guess it's unfortunate that his friends have the ability to vote on the HHOF, but by in large the dude is not overrated, most neutral people hate him and think he's 6 cups removed from being a bum.

Who even rates Taylor Hall? I'm sure you can find someone else in the entire history of hockey other than Taylor Hall.

 

[Machinehead]

If anything, MAF is underrated.

He's had one of the most decorated goaltending careers ever and people think he's a complete joke.

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

Overrated:
Paul Kariya
Jonathan Toews
Scott Stevens
Mats Sundin
Adam Graves

Underrated:
Phil Esposito
Dale Hawerchuck
Doug Weight
Glenn Anderson
Ales Hemsky

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

If anything, MAF is underrated.

He's had one of the most decorated goaltending careers ever and people think he's a complete joke.

No, he definitely does not.

1 Vezina and 1.5 Cups as a starter. Even though his backup for 3 of 4 ECF wins and all 4 SCF wins in the .5 year

0x AS-1
1x AS-2
Only 1x Vezina finalist
Never led the league in regular season or playoff GAA or SV%
Career playoff GSAA is -23.4

 

[Machinehead]

No, he definitely does not.

1 Vezina and 1.5 Cups as a starter. Even though his backup for 3 of 4 ECF wins and all 4 SCF wins in the .5 year

0x AS-1
1x AS-2
Only 1x Vezina finalist
Never led the league in regular season or playoff GAA or SV%
Career playoff GSAA is -23.4

Ok, and people talk about him like he shot Kennedy.

If people said he was an above average goaltender with an excellent resume as an accumulator, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[Brodeur]

Over:
Brodeur - Come on, behind the Devils Steel Curtain...

New Jersey Devils 2007-08 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 2007-08 New Jersey Devils playing in the NHL.

www.hockeydb.com

Devils had some pedestrian blue lines post-lockout when Brodeur put up some of his best individual years. I know some will marginalize that and assign the success to "the system" without acknowledging that Brodeur's puckhandling made life a lot easier for the D.

I suppose that's the tough thing with valuing Brodeur. Most will only look at the standard stats like save percentage or say that he faced fewer shots per game without giving him credit for being part of that. There were other goalies who were better at stopping pucks and I get that's how most people will judge the position. But Brodeur affected other portions of the game.

The big one for me is that the Devils were almost always one of the least penalized teams during Brodeur's run. I think there's a decent amount of value there. Yield fewer power plays and you'll likely yield fewer goals.

1992-93: Devils (7/24) -- 425 times shorthanded; league median was 437

1993-94 Devils (3/26) -- 376 times shorthanded, league median was 403. Brodeur's rookie season, split with Terreri

1994-95 Devils (1/26) -- 149 times shorthanded, league median 208. Brodeur takes the reins as the workhorse #1.

1995-96 Devils (1/26) -- 319 times shorthanded, league median 417

1996-97 Devils (1/26) -- 235 times shorthanded, league median 339

1997-98 Devils (3/26) -- 309 times shorthanded, league median 384

1998-99 Devils (5/27) -- 325 times shorthanded, league median 353

1999-00 Devils (11/28) -- 313 times shorthanded, league median 321

2000-01 Devils (2/30) -- 320 times shorthanded, league median 378

2001-02 Devils (1/30) -- 265 times shorthanded, league median 343

2002-03 Devils (1/30) -- 264 times shorthanded, league median 359

2003-04 Devils (1/30) -- 266 times shorthanded, league median 349

-- lockout, Stevens retires, Niedermayer signs with Anaheim --

2005-06 Devils (1/30) -- 348 times shorthanded, league median 481

2006-07 Devils (1/30) -- 271 times shorthanded, league median 410

2007-08 Devils (5/30) -- 314 times shorthanded, league median 354.

2008-09 Devils (9/30) -- 324 times shorthanded, league median 338. Brodeur missed chunk due to injury.

2009-10 Devils (1/30) -- 239 times shorthanded, league median 306.

2010-11 Devils (1/30) -- 241 times shorthanded, league median 294. Team starts to reduce Brodeur's starts.

2011-12 Devils (10/30) -- 259 times shorthanded, league median 270.

2012-13 Devils (22/30) -- 169 times shorthanded, league median 161

2013-14 Devils (13/30) -- 264 times shorthanded, league median 268. Split season with Schneider.

-- end of Brodeur era --

2014-15 Devils (24/30) -- 268 times shorthanded, league median 257

2015-16 Devils (20/30) -- 264 times shorthanded, league median 256

2016-17 Devils (22/30) -- 260 times shorthanded, league median 246

How is Ron Francis not on any of the underrated lists?

He was mentioned a few times before. I did enjoy attending the 2010 Draft and the crowd gave Steve Yzerman a standing ovation before he announced Tampa's pick at #6. Then Francis took the stage at #7 and I stood up to give respectful applause, and then I was the only one standing and sheepishly sat down.

 

[TageGod]

Overrated- Every single winger adjacent to Crosby the last 10 years.

 

[GMR]

Overrated:

Tayes
Niedermayer
Brodeur
Messier
MAF


Underrated:

Esposito
Delvecchio
Park
Stastny
Murphy

 

[JaegerDice]

It's hilarious how many of these overrated lists could pass rather easily as HOF induction classes at first glance

 

[me2]

Any player that makes the most underrated list is by definition automatically disqualified from it.

 

[thekernel]

I'm sure I can think of plenty of underrated candidates but here's what comes to mind in the moment.

Peter Stastny, the third best player of the 80s. Turns out the other two cast pretty big shadows...

Roberto Luongo, no goaltender will ever top 0.919% over 1,000 games. Literally one of the greatest to ever play, yet he was done dirty by Canucks media and fans.

Carey Price, mired in the hellscape of Bergevin's mismanagement.

Jacques Plante, exceeds all the criteria for GOAT discussion but few have the stones to put him above Roy or Brodeur. Fundamentally changed the game far beyond the adoption of the mask

Henrik Zetterberg, of all the "2-way monster" worship that guys like Toews or Bergeron get, Zetta never seems to get his due, and it's probably because he was a better scorer than them.

 

[The Panther]

Noticed you didn't respond to what I said.

Well, what am I supposed to respond to? I pointed out Ron Francis's quite good but not exceptional scoring ability while a #1 center, and everything I wrote was correct.

If you didn't like that I used Rob Brown as a scoring comparison, you could have not edited my sentence and included Joe Nieuwendyk, whom I also mentioned.

By the way, I think I said Francis was 18th in PPG over almost 10 years. I also calculated his PPG over his first five years (pre-Rob Brown, if that makes you happy) and he was... 18th.

 

[Bitter Clinger]

Jari Kurri very underrated

 

[Voight]

If anything, MAF is underrated.

He's had one of the most decorated goaltending careers ever and people think he's a complete joke.

Not sure about that one. He's basically Chris Osgood with a Vezina.

& lets not forget he was absolutely atrocious in the post season from 2010-2015 and very well may have cost the Pens a cup. One of the worst playoff goalies ever during that stretch.

No, he definitely does not.

1 Vezina and 1.5 Cups as a starter. Even though his backup for 3 of 4 ECF wins and all 4 SCF wins in the .5 year

0x AS-1
1x AS-2
Only 1x Vezina finalist
Never led the league in regular season or playoff GAA or SV%
Career playoff GSAA is -23.4

That Vezina felt like a sort of lifetime achievement award.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Overrated

Martin Brodeur
Chris Pronger
Patrice Bergeron
Steve Yzerman
Cale Makar

Underrated

Alexander Mogilny
Sergei Fedorov
David Krejci
Chris Osgood
Rick MacLeish