After top 10 all time- rank top 5 Most Overrated / underrated players all time?

[ricky0034]

Overrated:

Gretzky (far too many people still believe he's the best ever)
Ovechkin (not a generational player)
Fuhr (simultaneously the luckiest and least deserving member of the Hall of Fame)


Underrated:

Joseph (statistically similar to Belfour, but without the Cup and Vezina wins)
Pronger (most dominant Dman of his generation)
Turgeon (career totals easily meet the established standard used to induct previous Hall of Famers)

you have such a weird mix of things I agree with and ridiculousness that it's making me question my grip on sanity

 

[quietbruinfan]

Anyone want to explain the argument that Iginla was overrated? Admittedly I'm biased but I'm not seeing it, the NHL didn't even include the guy in their top 100 players of all time despite a resume far better than many guys on the list.

I am biased against him since he turned down a trade to the Bruins to take what seemed like an easier road in Pittsburgh. It seemed to me he was a very good "power forward", who hung on too long, and tarnished his legacy over the last third of his career. He was a nice guy and a hard worker, but I never saw anything beyond that for leadership qualities either.

 

[PavelBure10]

Underrated

Ron Francis
Cliff Ronning
Dave Andreychuk
Pierre Turgeon
Sergei Zubov
Rod Langway
Marc Savard
Mattias Ohlund
David Krejci
Bill Ranford
Andy Moog
John Vanbiesbrouk
Vladimir Konstantinov
Dan Boyle
Thomas Gradin
Doug Gilmour
Tim Kerr
Mikael Renberg
Curtis Joseph
Martin Gelinas
Mike Richter
Ray Sheppard
Pelle Lindbergh
Joe Pavelski
Zigmund Palffy
Kevin Stevens
Sandis Ozolinch
Robert Reichel
Sergei Makarov
Mike Gartner

 

[Baaaaaaaaaaaaah]

Underrated: Zetterberg

Overrated: Crosby

 

[Neutrinos]

This is a troll right? In 100+ years of NHL hockey across all eras, there has been only one player to reach 2000 all time points while also being ahead nearly 1000 points from 2nd place all-time points while holding pretty much every NHL scoring record.

Is a troll the act of posting a message under the assumption that those who read it will know the difference between best ever and most dominant?

If so, then yes...

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

I can see it, especially with the way people talk about Forsberg around here.

On here MAYBE but overall I think Sakic gets plenty of shine. Whenever 90s/early 00s hockey is mentioned on tv/press he’s usually one of the first 3-4 players mentioned.

 

[Voight]

Brodeur absolutely was on the same level as Roy. How could you argue otherwise when you look at numbers and accomplishments?

I do agree Quick was underrated. He was every bit as good as the elite goalies of his era, but he gets discredited due to how good the Kings were defensively.

FWIW Brodeur didn't win any Vezinas until Hasek & Roy were past their prime and/or retired. The competition was also much weaker in the years before & after the lockout.

& one could make the argument at least two of those should've gone to someone else / he wasn't the runaway best goalie in the league.

Is a troll the act of posting a message under the assumption that those who read it will know the difference between best ever and most dominant?

If so, then yes...

Gretz fits both quite easily.

 

[Neutrinos]

Gretz fits both quite easily.

We obviously disagree on that, which is why I have him as overrated

 

[tabness]

We obviously disagree on that, which is why I have him as overrated

who you think the best? Lemieux or Bedard? (don't tell me McDavid lol...)

I'm also less and less impressed with Gretzky as the best player as I've grown older (when I was growing up he'd be the default answer) though I think he's the greatest due to records and cultural clout and all that of course.

 

[Neutrinos]

who you think the best? Lemieux or Bedard? (don't tell me McDavid lol...)

I'm also less and less impressed with Gretzky as the best player as I've grown older (when I was growing up he'd be the default answer) though I think he's the greatest due to records and cultural clout and all that of course.

For 30+ years I've thought Lemieux was the best ever, however, that McDavid kid certainly has me questioning that long-held belief

Gretzky's status as the greatest ever remains unaffected

 

[ICanMotteBelieveIt]

Patrik Elias, mad underrated.

 

[paragon]

Most overrated:
Doug Harvey
Maurice Richard
Ken Dryden
Bobby Hull
Eddie Shore

To qualify you had to play in the O6 beer league era.

Underrated:
Patrick Kane
Jagr
Kessel
Coffey
MacInnis

 

[dr robbie]

Over:
Chris Pronger
Nick Lidstrom
Brodeur
Federov
McDavid (currently as he's the brand-new toy, I'm sure it will settle with time)

Under:
Red Kelly
Jagr
Barrasso
Harvey
Selanne

 

[Sentinel]

Those who says Béliveau - wtf lol

He's arguably top 10, top 15 at worst

I will definitely take him at Top15, possibly at #10 but not higher. One Art Ross, two Harts. He lost Art Ross to his teammates FOUR TIMES.

 

[Voight]

Those who says Béliveau - wtf lol

He's arguably top 10, top 15 at worst

Has more to do with some ranking him 5th.

 

[The Panther]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say Ron Francis is overrated now. Don't get me wrong, he was kind of underrated in his best years, but he's one of those guys who played forever and at a pretty high level and around the late-90s and early 2000s, when he was well past his prime, he suddenly surged in popular opinion and became the great cause célèbre of 'underrated'. But I think it's gone a bit too far.

Offensively, Francis was around an 80-point a year guy in the mid-1980s when he had to carry a team's load. Which is to say he was not an elite scorer.

Overall, during his almost-10 year Hartford career, Francis was (min. 250 games played) the 18th best point producer in the NHL, which is quite good but it's also equal to Rob Brown and Joe Nieuwendyk.

He had two insanely productive offensive seasons for Pittsburgh. One was in 1992-93, on possibly the most stacked offensive club ever, when he didn't have to face the other team's best checkers. The other huge season was 1995-96 when he played the whole year on the deadly PP with Lemieux and Jagr (and got 54 points on it).

The defensive side of his game is obviously something more intangible and difficult to settle, but I did think he was a bit over-regarded in this area as well.

None of this is to say I didn't like the player (I liked him a lot), and of course he's a legit Hall of Famer, etc. But having the 2nd-most assists and 5th-most points of all time makes him look much better offensively than he was.

One "underrated" I will agree with is Larry Murphy, a really excellent player. I was a bit surprised when he made the Hall of Fame because I thought he would get shafted.

Most overrated:
Doug Harvey
Maurice Richard
Ken Dryden
Bobby Hull
Eddie Shore

To qualify you had to play in the O6 beer league era.

One of the joys of the main board is seeing hilarious posts like this. You do not know anything about hockey! (and btw, Eddie Shore didn't play in the misnamed "O6".)

 

[Holkoun]

But why?

Fleury has to be on every overrated list.

Theo or Marc Andre?

 

[Voight]

Theo or Marc Andre?

Definitely Marc Andre.

Theo is underrated.

 

[Jerkbait]

After a top 10 all time list, I want to see something completly reverse. Who is your top 5 most overrated players all-time?

If you want more positivity, rank your top 5 most underrated all time.

Ill go

Overrated
Kevin Lowe
Taylor Hall
Fuhr
Niewendyk (top 100 all time??)
Lecavalier
D Hatcher if he ever was considered any good.

Underrated

Sakic
Larry Murphy
Kariya
Pavelski
Leetch

Overrated

Price
Tim Thomas
Lindros
Alfredson
Corry perry
Pronger

Underrated

Francis
Kovalev
Joe Mullen
Hawerchuk

 

[SwedishFire]

Overrated

Price
Tim Thomas
Lindros
Alfredson
Corry perry
Pronger

Underrated

Francis
Kovalev
Joe Mullen
Hawerchuk

Are Thomas, Alfie, Pronger overrated...?

 

[Jerkbait]

Are Thomas, Alfie, Pronger overrated...?

In my opinion yes.
Thomas short career.
Alfie never won on the big stage and overated as a leader
Pronger bullied his way dirty player

There are a hundred answers to each

 

[SwedishFire]

In my opinion yes.
Thomas short career.
Alfie never won on the big stage and overated as a leader
Pronger bullied his way dirty player

There are a hundred answers to each

Thomas career was late, yes, but wjen he played, he was awesome. And he had a tragic careeraneding injury. Thomas is never on best goalies lisy, so its hard for me to label him as overrated.

Alfie is a swede like me, and Im biasez, I liked his umderdog story, he was not at all a star as young. He had a great career I must say. Maybe not top 200 all time, but close to.

 

[BamBamCam]

Fleury has to be on every overrated list.

Which Fleury??

 

[paragon]

One of the joys of the main board is seeing hilarious posts like this. You do not know anything about hockey! (and btw, Eddie Shore didn't play in the misnamed "O6".)

Don't pretend that you have watched a single game from Shore, who played his last game in 1940.

Ok, pre-O6. That's even Worse. The league was basically a Canadian domestic league at that point with 90+% on players from Canada. How can anyone claim claim that being the best in a 6 team domestic beer league is equal to or better to being the best in a 32 team international and fully professional league. People put players like Harvey in their top 20 lists because of nostalgia.

When Shore began playing the best paid player in the NHL made 40% more in salary than the average family in America at that time. For most of the players it was barely a hobby and their salary probably wasn't even enough to support a family.

The effort and talent needed to be the absolute best in this age is way higher than it has ever been. You really can't even really compare them. And I think this applies to most things.

 

[tabness]

Don't pretend that you have watched a single game from Shore, who played his last game in 1940.

Ok, pre-O6. That's even Worse. The league was basically a Canadian domestic league at that point with 90+% on players from Canada. How can anyone claim claim that being the best in a 6 team domestic beer league is equal to or better to being the best in a 32 team international and fully professional league. People put players like Harvey in their top 20 lists because of nostalgia.

When Shore began playing the best paid player in the NHL made 40% more in salary than the average family in America at that time. For most of the players it was barely a hobby and their salary probably wasn't even enough to support a family.

The effort and talent needed to be the absolute best in this age is way higher than it has ever been. You really can't even really compare them. And I think this applies to most things.

See like, I don't even necessarily disagree that the original six dynasty(ies) Habs players that you listed could be overrated (cup counting, issues with stats/trophy counting on a stacked team), but then statements like this show your complete ignorance of how things worked in hockey back then.

Fully professional hockey was set in stone by the time the NHL was established, any pro/amateurs controversy was done by then.

The NHL is not an international league. It covers the US and Canada. Just like the NHL since it started did lol. If your poorly worded point is that international players play in the NHL now, well, there weren't many international players pre original six, and still not that many for the early part of the the original six. Not to mention, it isn't as if there don't continue to be professional leagues in other places of the world apart from the NHL today.

Given all the misinformation about hockey, it isn't surprising to see your grasp on the financials, salaries of professional athletes, and cost of living and all that is pretty much the same level of not informed lol

Many of the people on HF who may have seen a guy like Harvey play don't seem to be around anymore, how can there be any nostalgia lol? These guys are usually judged mostly on stats/awards, but don't tell me the hockey reference bot nature of judging players isn't going on for players today either lol