After top 10 all time- rank top 5 Most Overrated / underrated players all time?

[Brookbank]

Over:

Pavel Bure
Peter Forsberg

I find it hard to believe that some of these are serious

Underrated:
1) Pavel Datsyuk

 

[Brookbank]

Overrated

Bobby Ryan
Bergeron
Orilly
Doughty

Under

Because he had an off year last year, everyone outside of the Canucks is underrating him.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

He was excellent defensively too and had some solid scoring seasons considered. He wasn’t just out there for points and “only” getting at or close to ppg

Did so, that defense, without taking a ton of penalties too, a lot of great defensive guys put their team down a man often too

And his peak season, that highest if briefest peak, he had to be in the best player conversation that year.

I agree with everything you said, and won't argue his ability as a two-way player and skill guy.

But in a lot of conversations, people with throw out stuff like "Best Russain player ever", and I have ever heard him being compared to Gretzky on this board years ago.

 

[SwedishFire]

All these people putting Messier as underrated makes me think he may even be overrated.

Oh no, not this again.....

The Toews principe. Being underrated until all talk makes him the most overrated, and then back again....

Messier is 3rd all time in points. Why must he be overrated? I guess it has to be what he was. He was more than the hockeyplayer on ice. The way he played, somwtimes mean and ugly, thag maked him an impact. OfC that was important for the team, but makes him doubtful in others eyes. And he had his bad seasons as well, wich makes him harf to judge.
But after all, he hsd many tools, and could put in goals and assits as well as being a leader. Why overrated?

 

[Sentinel]

Underrated: Esposito, Makarov

Overrated: Beliveau

 

[Cape]

Overrated:
Malkin
Sundin
Thomas
Forsberg
Datsyuk

Underrated:
Price
Kariya
Lafleur
Sedins

Malkin overrated? He’s nowdays rated where he should be; top 40-50 alltime. A few years back experts opinion was that Toews should be top 100 player and not Malkin. If you wan’t an owerrated russian, that’s Fedorov.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Jarome Iginla was always overrated to me. Had a couple of great seasons but overrated as a "power forward".

And a leader...just not someone you want when times got tough.

Also overrated Neidermayer and Toews

 

[SwedishFire]

Malkin overrated? He’s nowdays rated where he should be; top 40-50 alltime. A few years back experts opinion was that Toews should be top 100 player and not Malkin. If you wan’t an owerrated russian, that’s Fedorov.

The problem with Fedorov is his longevity. His peak was one of the highest all time, almost Lemieux class. And that peak was maybe four - five years. Thats why he is such a splitted opinion maker.

 

[TooFlashy]

I just want to throw one name of an overrated player out and then hide for awhile...

Datsyuk.

He had some amazing dangles and was a good all-around player, but I feel he is insanely overrated for what he actually accomplished year to year. He wasn't even a ppg player but people treat him like the Russian Gretzky. Most players with his numbers wouldn't even be mentioned as a superstar if they had played for Buffalo or Arizona.

Indeed.He was a decent all around player and thats about it

 

[Neutrinos]

Overrated:

Gretzky (far too many people still believe he's the best ever)
Ovechkin (not a generational player)
Fuhr (simultaneously the luckiest and least deserving member of the Hall of Fame)


Underrated:

Joseph (statistically similar to Belfour, but without the Cup and Vezina wins)
Pronger (most dominant Dman of his generation)
Turgeon (career totals easily meet the established standard used to induct previous Hall of Famers)

 

[Voight]

Overrated - Price, Beliveau, Fuhr

Overrated:

Gretzky (far too many people still believe he's the best ever)
Ovechkin (not a generational player)
Fuhr (simultaneously the luckiest and least deserving member of the Hall of Fame)


Underrated:

Joseph (statistically similar to Belfour, but without the Cup and Vezina wins)
Pronger (most dominant Dman of his generation)
Turgeon (career totals easily meet the established standard used to induct previous Hall of Famers)

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I always thought Sundin was ranked right around where he deserved to be. he was a mid elite #1 C and ranked below alot of players in his class.

never really got much support throughout his career and still put up very respectable numbers.

was the last captain to lead this team through Playoff Round wins, made it to the Conference Finals atleast once, imo gotta count for something.

Sundin was what he was, maybe the media pumped him up every game like Sundin and the Maple Leafs visit so and so, prob because he was our only good player for a while. hard to say he was overrated though he just was what he was.

 

[SladeWilson23]

I'm not sure, I always hear people compare him to Roy when he wasn't on that level imo. Likewise with Quick people seem to regard Luongo and Lundquist higher.

Brodeur absolutely was on the same level as Roy. How could you argue otherwise when you look at numbers and accomplishments?

I do agree Quick was underrated. He was every bit as good as the elite goalies of his era, but he gets discredited due to how good the Kings were defensively.

 

[SladeWilson23]

great defensive systems inflate your SV%..... Almost every goalie that played under Lemaire, Hitchcock, Trotz.

Brodeur, Roloson, Manny Fernandez, Nick Backstrom in MIN
Marty Turco in DAL, Halak in STL, Pascale Leclaire and Steve Mason in CLB
Vokoun, Chris Mason, and even Dan Ellis in NSH

False. High SV% is much more difficult to maintain playing behind a good defensive system.

If you look at every single goalie in the league and compare their numbers in low shot total games vs high shot total games, their SV% is always higher in the high shot total games.

That's even after you exclude the games where a goalie had to get pulled early due to injury or poor play.

 

[amnesiac]

False. High SV% is much more difficult to maintain playing behind a good defensive system.

If you look at every single goalie in the league and compare their numbers in low shot total games vs high shot total games, their SV% is always higher in the high shot total games.

That's even after you exclude the games where a goalie had to get pulled early due to injury or poor play.

You say FASLE, yet I just listed 12 goalies whos SV% inflated under defensive coaches and systems. You can say what you want, its obviously not just a coincidence. So there you go. TRUE.... you need the stats?

Defensive systems dont always lower shot totals against, they lower the scoring chances, ie. shot quality. There are MANY goalies on BAD teams who receive high shot totals and allow 4+ goals a game. That doesnt raise their SV%.

 

[bobholly39]

Over:
Kevin Lowe - Worst Hall of Fame inductee ever, disgusting that he used all his buddies to get in there, and don't remind me of his awful GM skills!
Brodeur - Come on, behind the Devils Steel Curtain...
Fleury - Carried by his teams
Lecavalier - Size, Skill, could have been so much more
Fuhr - I love the guy as a person, but behind that Oilers team?


Under:
Ron Francis - look at top NHL scorers of all time, and he was a two way player
Hasek - If only he played in NHL since he was 20 years old
Ovechkin - Unbelievable so many are dissing his accomplishment, we are watching history
Gilbert Perreault - Imagine him on the 70s Habs
Forsberg - Absolute Powerhouse slowed by injuries
Mark Messier - Warrior, and seeing him live his skating... beautiful

Who overrates any of Lowe or Lecavalier? I know Lowe is a hall of famer, so maybe that's what you imply, but most people correctly think he never should have made a hall of famer. As for Lecavalier, fantastic prospect, terrific at his peak, but his career really isn't all that. I don't really see anyone overrating him.

Brodeur I can understand yes...should be rated super high, but some suggest #1 all time for goalies, which is dumb
Fleury I agree can get overrated (can also be underrated). Fuhr I agree with too.

Underrated:

Francis, I agree.
Hasek, nope. Majority of people rate him very, very highly. Also, "if only he played in NHL since 20"....that's a 'butterfly effect' question. Maybe if he comes to the NHL at 20 he has the greatest career ever to rival Gretzky (he wouldn't)....or maybe it's the opposite, he can't hack it at age 20, and by 22 is back in Europe and never even makes the NHL. Such a loaded question.
Ovechkin - who underrates him? some people don't think he should be rated #5 all time, but that's hardly underrating him. I think a few years ago maybe, but since his cup/smythe, and especially since he's yet again scoring at 50 goal pace, all i'm hearing is praise for Ovechkin lately.
Forsberg - I agree 100%, but you have him on the wrong list....might be the most overrated by far.

Messier/Perrault, not really sure....I don't know that they belong on either list tbh.

Fun thread - just wanted to comment on your names.

Some of the most overrated names ever on HF in my opinion include:

Forsberg, Fedorov, Lindros, Pronger, Datsyuk

Unless i'm missing an obvious name, those might be my top 5.

 

[GetStoned]

Underrated:
Reijo Rustolainen

Combining the skating and IQ of Reijo Ruotsalainen with size and strength of Rasmus Ristolainen, Reijo Rustolainen truly was an underrated beast.

 

[amnesiac]

Overrated

Bobby Ryan
Bergeron
Orilly
Doughty

Under

Because he had an off year last year, everyone outside of the Canucks is underrating him.

baaaaaaad choices right here..... their respective teams 100% dotn win the Cup without them. I mean.....

 

[Neutrinos]

Brodeur absolutely was on the same level as Roy. How could you argue otherwise when you look at numbers and accomplishments?

I do agree Quick was underrated. He was every bit as good as the elite goalies of his era, but he gets discredited due to how good the Kings were defensively.

Actually, the advanced stats are not very flattering to Quick, showing he didn't have many seasons which could be considered elite, however, one of those season was quite impressive!

In fact, during one of their Cup runs, he finished with a negative GSAA

 

[McShogun99]

How is Ron Francis not on any of the underrated lists?

 

[CartographerNo611]

Overrated:

Gretzky (far too many people still believe he's the best ever)

This is a troll right? In 100+ years of NHL hockey across all eras, there has been only one player to reach 2000 all time points while also being ahead nearly 1000 points from 2nd place all-time points while holding pretty much every NHL scoring record.

 

[Love]

Sakic underrated? That one seems off to me

I can see it, especially with the way people talk about Forsberg around here.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Overrated:

Gretzky (far too many people still believe he's the best ever)
Ovechkin (not a generational player)
Fuhr (simultaneously the luckiest and least deserving member of the Hall of Fame)


Underrated:

Joseph (statistically similar to Belfour, but without the Cup and Vezina wins)
Pronger (most dominant Dman of his generation)
Turgeon (career totals easily meet the established standard used to induct previous Hall of Famers)

Quoting this just to help me associate this post with your username in case of any future discussions I have with you about hockey.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Those who says Béliveau - wtf lol

He's arguably top 10, top 15 at worst

 

[Dack]

Jarome Iginla was always overrated to me. Had a couple of great seasons but overrated as a "power forward".

Overrated: Dionne
Derian Hatcher
Kevin Hatcher
Mike Bullard
Jarome Iginla
Dustin Byfuglien

Umderrated: Middleton
Datsyuk
Zubov
Bill Barber
Craig Hartsburg

Overrated:
Iginla
Messier
Brodeur
Toews
Stevens

Underrated
MAF
Lecavalier
Forsberg
Kovalchuk
Pronger

And a leader...just not someone you want when times got tough.

Also overrated Neidermayer and Toews

Anyone want to explain the argument that Iginla was overrated? Admittedly I'm biased but I'm not seeing it, the NHL didn't even include the guy in their top 100 players of all time despite a resume far better than many guys on the list.