Adam Larsson potential

[JimEIV]

Imagine having the luxury of being able to decide between drouin/ MacKinnon/ Jones.

Just from the WJC that would be easy choice for me Jones was amazing. One of the best performances I've seen from an undrafted dman in that tournament

 

[Devils Dominion]

I'd take MacKinnon

 

[JimEIV]

I'd take MacKinnon

Granted my viewing of him was limited to WJC and the all star game Cherry v Orr...but every time I saw him he was invisible.

That scares me.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Yeah especially because the first year was never in the discussion to begin with. Let's just say their rookie season was quite close but I don't see the point here.



So basically you are saying that Hedman played more in a better team. Thank you for adding to my point.



Hedman still played more than Larsson both in total ice-time and PK time. That is the point. And if you you really watched the Lightning at that time you'd know the answer to your own question as Hedman was a key player in the Tampa defense that year. I can hardly say the same about Larsson.



Not really. Hedman was a monster in the 2012 playoffs so we could say his breakout went at this time. The following year was more the confirmation than anything.

Look, I don't want to talk about this all night. The bottom line is simple, Hedman was an absolute regular on the 7th team in the league, playing 21 minutes a game and 2 minutes of PK a game, producing 26 points in the process. He was the second most used player in the team already while Larsson was barely regular in a team that failed to qualify in the playoffs. You REALLY don't see the difference here ?

And while I ask you some question, I'll add another. Don't you see the absurdity of this comparaison ? I mean, there is absolutly no common points between Hedman and Larsson in their style of game. Not saying this against you, but just because they were two swedish top-picks doesn't mean we absolutly have to compare them, really. Let's just support Larsson and hope for him to become the good defensman we need him to become instead of putting follish comparaisons just for the sake of it.

I'll just say that Hedman has played way more games in 2 seasons than Larsson. And those games are crucial to make a fair judgement about the development of each player. A 53 games difference, being that young, is a big deal to me.
Hedman had a complete 2nd season under his belt to step up in the playoffs. Larsson didn't have that luxury. It's not impossible for Larsson would've made great improvements during a complete season though, why not he's got talent too. But fact is he's going to play 37 games at most this season.

Otherwise I don't see a real comparison between both players. Hedman is the complete package now. He is better offensively playing for an immensely more offensive minded system. He's going to blow Larsson out of water in terms of points production for years. Nonetheless If somehow he can improve his skating Larsson's going to be really really something special defensively.


Honestly I don't even want to compare them.

 

[JimEIV]

On Larsson I honestly think he'll be completely different player once he fills out a little bit. I just get the feeling that this player will be nothing resembling what he is today when he is 25. A little more bulk and strength, a little more situation recognition and little more understanding of the game and you'll have a completely different player...I just can't see at what level right now. I think two years from now you're going to get a much better understanding of the full potential.

 

[Saugus]

That Sami Salo comparison that TSN had for him during the draft is looking a little bit more accurate than we thought it was.

I think that's still selling him short. But anybody who was comparing him to Lidstrom is also wrong. As always, the truth is somewhere in between.

Imagine having the luxury of being able to decide between drouin/ MacKinnon/ Jones.

The gif party on here would be amazing.

 

[CerebralGenesis]

On Larsson I honestly think he'll be completely different player once he fills out a little bit. I just get the feeling that this player will be nothing resembling what he is today when he is 25. A little more bulk and strength, a little more situation recognition and little more understanding of the game and you'll have a completely different player...I just can't see at what level right now. I think two years from now you're going to get a much better understanding of the full potential.

Truth because he looks raw as hell right now. I can understand why he gets benched at some stretches right now; he simply isn't as good at the NHL level as some of the other dmen we have on our squad.

And Jones will most likely go first. Very good dman. I'd still be overjoyed with Drouin...ugh...dreams...

 

[apice3*]

On Larsson I honestly think he'll be completely different player once he fills out a little bit. I just get the feeling that this player will be nothing resembling what he is today when he is 25. A little more bulk and strength, a little more situation recognition and little more understanding of the game and you'll have a completely different player...I just can't see at what level right now. I think two years from now you're going to get a much better understanding of the full potential.

I agree entirely. The team is trying to contend while teaching him how to play the game, unlike most top-5 picks who kind of let their top picks be the focal point and build around what they do. Larsson is being told what to do.

Once he understands the game, and let's be honest, 100 games isn't nearly enough time to teach a 20 year old the entire game, he will become an outstanding D-man. Most of the mistakes he makes right now are purely mental. I've noticed that when he makes the right decision, he pretty much always makes the play. It's not like he makes the right decision and gets outclassed. He knows how to do pretty much everything a defenseman needs to do, he just needs to learn when and when not to do them.

I think we will have a good idea of what Larsson is going to be around the 200-250 game mark.

 

[Sykie]

I'll just say that Hedman has played way more games in 2 seasons than Larsson. And those games are crucial to make a fair judgement about the development of each player. A 53 games difference, being that young, is a big deal to me.
Hedman had a complete 2nd season under his belt to step up in the playoffs. Larsson didn't have that luxury. It's not impossible for Larsson would've made great improvements during a complete season though, why not he's got talent too. But fact is he's going to play 37 games at most this season.

Otherwise I don't see a real comparison between both players. Hedman is the complete package now. He is better offensively playing for an immensely more offensive minded system. He's going to blow Larsson out of water in terms of points production for years. Nonetheless If somehow he can improve his skating Larsson's going to be really really something special defensively.


Honestly I don't even want to compare them.

Fair enough.

About the first part, of your message, you may be right, you may be wrong, but it's a bunch of "ifs". The bottom line is that Hedman played a bigger part in the Lightning two years ago than Larsson did this year and it's foolish to read some comments insinuating Larsson is better now than Hedman two years ago... not to mention the even more crazier talk of a guy who said Larsson is better defensively now. Clearly the guy who said that have absolutly no clue about Hedman here.

Coming back to our conversation I think one difference of vision comes by the fact you seem to underrate the defensive game of Hedman. Hedman is not just better offensively, he is vastly better defensively too. And really I think the gap is even bigger in defense than what it is in offense as Larsson showed earlier promise in offense when he came into the league. About Larsson defensive game, I'm not so sold for now as he was burned quite often and I suppose it's the reason why he was not a key player in the Devils defense this year. Hedman on the other hand is a defensive monster. You could argue he is top-10 in the league or close to this now.

One thing for sure, this comparaison is absurd as you seem to understand and we should simply take a breath and let time to Larsson to develop. Larsson development is okay so far, not spectacular, but not bad either, and he seems on track to become a good top-four in the next few years which is fine by me.

 

[devilsblood]

On Larsson I honestly think he'll be completely different player once he fills out a little bit. I just get the feeling that this player will be nothing resembling what he is today when he is 25. A little more bulk and strength, a little more situation recognition and little more understanding of the game and you'll have a completely different player...I just can't see at what level right now. I think two years from now you're going to get a much better understanding of the full potential.

That to me is the big one, and something that can fully be counted, he's going to put on some weight, he's going to get stronger. And that will certainly help his game.

Truth because he looks raw as hell right now. I can understand why he gets benched at some stretches right now; he simply isn't as good at the NHL level as some of the other dmen we have on our squad.

And Jones will most likely go first. Very good dman. I'd still be overjoyed with Drouin...ugh...dreams...

I don't think he looks that raw myself. My main gripe is he makes overly dangerous plays(specifically passes in his own zone), which isn't what I call being raw. And because of that I do agree, I don't think he needs to play every game. Not at this age, not in a shortened season.

A full 82 game season would have been nice though.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Larsson's smarts are way above every other defenseman we have.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

I don't want to be a dick or anything, but the bar is pretty low in that regard, is it not

 

[New Jersey Devils]

Larsson's smarts are way above every other defenseman we have.

Greene has a little bit of an edge on that, given that he's been in the league for a while now. Should hopefully see that change in the next few years.

 

[Devils86]

Still think until the skating and footwork greatly improve everything else is moot.

 

[AfroThunder396]

The bottom line is that Hedman played a bigger part in the Lightning two years ago

it's foolish to read some comments insinuating Larsson is better now than Hedman two years ago

These are two completely different points you're arguing.

Tomas Plekanec is just as important to Montreal's offense as Nicklas Backstrom is to Washington's offense. Does that mean Plekanec is the superior player? Of course not. You have to take into account team needs. Look at Tampa's defense before the drafted Hedman, of course he immediately became their best defender. Whereas our defense had a much better core of both veterans and prime defenseman in place.

Is Thomas Vanek better than Evgeni Malkin? Of course not, but I'd argue that if you look at Buffalo's forwards vs. Pittsburgh's forwards that Vanek is just as important if not MORE important in the Buffalo offense than Malkin is to Pittsburgh.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Greene has a little bit of an edge on that, given that he's been in the league for a while now. Should hopefully see that change in the next few years.

Hockey IQ? I don't think so.

Greene is more physically gifted than Larsson, at least skating wise.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I never said he was a great skater, nor do I think he's a bad skater. I just think it's funny how people here can come up with a better 2011 scouting report in 2013, 2 years after the fact. People forget Larsson played on a larger rink where speed and acceleration isn't as important as an NHL rink.

And honestly, I don't care about how you view me as a poster. You called Zidlicky "not NHL ready" which pretty much summarizes the kind of poster you are. I don't really care about how most of HF views me as a poster, aside from a few people here. The few people that are capable of having an intelligent conversation about hockey get lost in the sea of overly dramatic pessimists who think judgement day is upon us.

Larsson is barely 20 and people are freaking out about his game. Show me where most NHL d-men are at age 20. I guarantee Larsson is way ahead of the curve.

nice context with the zidlicky post, guy. it was clearly an exaggeration and a joke. im not being negative about larsson i just said he shouldnt be compared to hedman bc he's borderline elite and larsson is so young still. a lot of hedman's greatness is due to his ELITE SKATING ABILITY that larsson doesnt posses. youre very mean sounding all the time hahaha u need to smoke a joint or something chill bra.

 

[Oneiro]

So what adjustments has Larsson made since last year?

I don't think he chases the opposing forwards as much he used to (like we saw Urbom do last game). He goes back to cover the passing lane across the slot and lets the winger take the battle.

He's cut down on forcing the spectacular pass out of the corners. He's upped his physicality. When he takes the extreme angle along the sideboards, he doesn't get caught behind the opposing winger - he forces that guy to dump it in or make a play earlier than he wanted to. Though it still doesn't look good to me.

For 1.5 seasons, with intermittent playing time, I think he's right on schedule for a young d-man, especially when he doesn't have the burden to carry the team. The amount of impatience and whining here is being compounded by a hilariously painful season.

 

[JimEIV]

Larsson's smarts are way above every other defenseman we have.

Unless you are putting the caveat *For a 20 year old* I completely disagree. He still looks like a kindergartner going to school for the first time on many nights.

 

[apice3*]

nice context with the zidlicky post, guy. it was clearly an exaggeration and a joke. im not being negative about larsson i just said he shouldnt be compared to hedman bc he's borderline elite and larsson is so young still. a lot of hedman's greatness is due to his ELITE SKATING ABILITY that larsson doesnt posses. youre very mean sounding all the time hahaha u need to smoke a joint or something chill bra.

And never once did I disagree with anything you just said. My one and only point was that it's absurd to rip on scouts who evaluated Larsson as a 16-18 year old for not being 100% spot on in regards to what we now see as a 20 year old in the best league in the world on a different size surface. No idea why you tried to call me out on that point.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

And never once did I disagree with anything you just said. My one and only point was that it's absurd to rip on scouts who evaluated Larsson as a 16-18 year old for not being 100% spot on in regards to what we now see as a 20 year old in the best league in the world on a different size surface. No idea why you tried to call me out on that point.

A certain bunch of posters, including myself, just said that Larsson wasn't the best skater in his draft class and that was pretty evident 2 years ago and it's still is today.

I have no clue how anyone can say that, especially when Ryan Murphy was part of that draft class but what do I know, I ain't no scout.

 

[MartyOwns]

nice context with the zidlicky post, guy. it was clearly an exaggeration and a joke. im not being negative about larsson i just said he shouldnt be compared to hedman bc he's borderline elite and larsson is so young still. a lot of hedman's greatness is due to his ELITE SKATING ABILITY that larsson doesnt posses. youre very mean sounding all the time hahaha u need to smoke a joint or something chill bra.

this post told me everything i need to know about this poster.

i like this guy

 

[Sykie]

These are two completely different points you're arguing.

Tomas Plekanec is just as important to Montreal's offense as Nicklas Backstrom is to Washington's offense. Does that mean Plekanec is the superior player? Of course not. You have to take into account team needs. Look at Tampa's defense before the drafted Hedman, of course he immediately became their best defender. Whereas our defense had a much better core of both veterans and prime defenseman in place.

Is Thomas Vanek better than Evgeni Malkin? Of course not, but I'd argue that if you look at Buffalo's forwards vs. Pittsburgh's forwards that Vanek is just as important if not MORE important in the Buffalo offense than Malkin is to Pittsburgh.

Read the conversation, we already covered that.

Hedman played more on a better team. He would have been our first pair defenseman this year. Hedman was simply a superior player two years ago both offensively and defensively and it's really time to stop with the foolish comparaison just because both were two swedish top-picks. You have the short version, if you want more details you can simply read the conversation.

 

[The Devil In I]

Read the conversation, we already covered that.

Hedman played more on a better team. He would have been our first pair defenseman this year. Hedman was simply a superior player two years ago both offensively and defensively and it's really time to stop with the foolish comparaison just because both were two swedish top-picks. You have the short version, if you want more details you can simply read the conversation.

I'm not arguing Hedman vs Larsson here. I'm just gonna point out the argument you're using for Hedman being better in his 2nd season is flawed.

Yes, he played on a better team. That doesn't mean he played more minutes on a better defensive unit though. That group of defenseman Tampa had was pretty crappy. 5 defenseman that played 60+ games that year for Tampa are either retired, no longer in the NHL, or AHL call up material at this point. Explains why they had to play the 1-3-1.

And the minutes/games played stuff is even harder to compare when certain coaches are much tougher on rookies/young players than others.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

the only way to successfuly stop comparing Larsson and Hedman is to stop posting Hedman's name in the Larsson thread.