Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXIX

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Dream Big

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Even if the revenue of all the Canadian teams decreased proportionally to the Loonie (which they wouldn't due to set TV/advertising contracts), it would only amount to a 1% decrease for 20% of the league. Hardly something that would impact the cap significantly.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on...will-keep-salary-cap-below-initial-projection

$68 mil instead of $71 mil. is possible.

The Rogers deal is in Canadian funds.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=693152
 

kmdoom

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The scenario that best fits an offseason Green trade that doesn't stink is if the Caps go deep, Green is good in that run, GMGM leaves for more money elsewhere and a new GM decides to sell high. How likely is that combo?

On a different note, if you were an owner, would you hire a guy who couldn't get it done with one of the greatest goal scoring talents of all-time? If GM is fired, which I feel is the only way he leaves due to the above reasoning, I think he's out of an NHL job for a long time.
 

Hivemind

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On a different note, if you were an owner, would you hire a guy who couldn't get it done with one of the greatest goal scoring talents of all-time? If GM is fired, which I feel is the only way he leaves due to the above reasoning, I think he's out of an NHL job for a long time.

He's already been linked to the job in Calgary, and he's still employed in Washington.
 

Mothra

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I think you highly undervalue Green as do most Caps fans. Dallas traded Neal to get Goligoski. Anaheim gave up Kunitz to get Whitney. Those guys are a fraction of the player Green is.

Elite puck moving dmen are insanely valued.

Let's look at Brian Campbell when the Hawks signed him. Green is a superior player and at this point accomplished far more than Campbell did at that point. The Salary cap was significantly lower too. Look at contracts that guys like Boyle, Campbell and Gonchar got.

You keep pointing to all these other players and trades like its relevant I dont care what Boyle/Gonchar make. I disagree that the best player in the world the Caps could get for 6 mil is Mike Green....

but what cant be overcome is our fundamental difference in the player 52 is now. You seem to think he is elite and this is 2010...he has attacked the play a few times the last week or so and you seem to feel the 1st team all-star play has been there all season. This is a player that you cant count on, just hope to. He has yet to prove he can be at his best in the playoffs, when the skating room he so dearly needs just isnt there as often and player go after him even more...another thing he hasnt proven to get past
 

hb13xchamps

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You keep pointing to all these other players and trades like its relevant I dont care what Boyle/Gonchar make. I disagree that the best player in the world the Caps could get for 6 mil is Mike Green....

but what cant be overcome is our fundamental difference in the player 52 is now. You seem to think he is elite and this is 2010...he has attacked the play a few times the last week or so and you seem to feel the 1st team all-star play has been there all season. This is a player that you cant count on, just hope to. He has yet to prove he can be at his best in the playoffs, when the skating room he so dearly needs just isnt there as often and player go after him even more...another thing he hasnt proven to get past

Then who do you expect to get for that 6 million dollars to upgrade the defense? There's not much in the FA class and moving Green creates another glaring hole in the worst area of the team.
 

Mothra

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Basic stat. Points. Last season's playoffs. The Caps had 3 players with 4pts to lead the team. Green, Ward and Perreault. He had 2 goals including an OT winner. Ovechkin had 1 goal. In fact he was the only Caps player with more than 1 goal in those playoffs.

Playoffs pressure. Yes? is that what you meant by folding under pressure? some here like to dismiss Green's league lead in goals from defense last season as irrelevant. Playoffs too?

he had 4 points in a first round playoff loss....this isnt the kind of 1st team all-star play you make it out as

ive said having 1 or 2 more goals than a few other D was a good sign, but for a player with his injury history a short season still leaves question marks....he has followed it up with a poor season IMO. His play in his own end has been terrible for much of the year
 

g00n

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On a different note, if you were an owner, would you hire a guy who couldn't get it done with one of the greatest goal scoring talents of all-time? If GM is fired, which I feel is the only way he leaves due to the above reasoning, I think he's out of an NHL job for a long time.

Not if there are financially struggling teams looking to make money year after year based on Ted's model. How's Calgary's balance sheet looking?
 

Raikkonen

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Aug 19, 2009
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My thinking on this was:

1) Korpikoski's a solid player who can step in on the left side and fill in for a top-6 injury. His speed also allows him to be the eventual Chimera replacement.

2) Stone is a great fit for the right side of the D. He steps in immediately at 3RD IMO, and based on performance, could allow Green potentially to be phased out. Stone is also a much better stylistic fit with Orlov IMO.

3) Brouwer is moved, which opens up a spot in the top 6 for Wilson or Ward, and a spot in the bottom 6 for Brown/Mitchell/Wellman.

Lateral movement IMHO.

We need some serious moves AKA statement ones. Like getting quality top-4 D at last.

EDIT: We don't even know what side of the ice Orlov will play next season yet. Getting him 3RD should be in the end of the 2do list.
 

MrGone

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Nov 18, 2009
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On a different note, if you were an owner, would you hire a guy who couldn't get it done with one of the greatest goal scoring talents of all-time? If GM is fired, which I feel is the only way he leaves due to the above reasoning, I think he's out of an NHL job for a long time.

If I was an owner that strived for mediocrity. I would be happy to have GMGM or Mike Green. He did "Lead the league in goals last season" by the way.
 

Carlzner

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Assuming we've fired the handedness buffoon, I'd really like to add Hemsky to this team. Imagine the skill in the top 9 with him in the lineup, and it could also open up the option for GMGM to trade Johansson.
He's looked really good since finally being out of the blackhole in Edmonton.
 

hb13xchamps

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Assuming we've fired the handedness buffoon, I'd really like to add Hemsky to this team. Imagine the skill in the top 9 with him in the lineup, and it could also open up the option for GMGM to trade Johansson.
He's looked really good since finally being out of the blackhole in Edmonton.

If he could stay healthy I wouldn't mind it. He looked pretty good in the Olympics during the games I saw and has played well since.
 

BobRouse

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You keep pointing to all these other players and trades like its relevant I dont care what Boyle/Gonchar make. I disagree that the best player in the world the Caps could get for 6 mil is Mike Green....

but what cant be overcome is our fundamental difference in the player 52 is now. You seem to think he is elite and this is 2010...he has attacked the play a few times the last week or so and you seem to feel the 1st team all-star play has been there all season. This is a player that you cant count on, just hope to. He has yet to prove he can be at his best in the playoffs, when the skating room he so dearly needs just isnt there as often and player go after him even more...another thing he hasnt proven to get past

You should care what those guys make since that is what sets the market. The price for a dman is not drawn up in a vacuum. Its based on supply/demand which one of the major factors is the avialability of that type of player and the league salary cap.

Again the type of player 52 is now is an area we disagree. As I pointed out..he is one of our very best Corsi players. You argument revolves around him sucking in his own zone and not coming up in the playoffs. He was the leading scorer for all dmen last year and led our team in points in the playoffs including an OT winner. The year before him and Hamrlik were outrageously solid in the playoffs as well.

If you have metrics to support your position I suggest you use them. Yes he missed 20 games these last two seasons out of a possible 126 games including playoffs up to now. Half of those were from the lingering groin injury that is gone. You make it seem like he misses half the games. EDIT: I believe 3 of those 20 games were actually due to suspension.

he had 4 points in a first round playoff loss....this isnt the kind of 1st team all-star play you make it out as

ive said having 1 or 2 more goals than a few other D was a good sign, but for a player with his injury history a short season still leaves question marks....he has followed it up with a poor season IMO. His play in his own end has been terrible for much of the year

So he was our leading scorer and our best D in the playoffs last year and the obvious solution to our woes is to remove him thereby improving the team?

Salary is irrelevant right now since we have tons of cap space. If we wanted to get rid of excess forwards (to make room for other guys) then there is a market for guys like MJ and Brouwer that would free up another 5.5 mil. Then there is Laich who maybe bought out at another 4.5 mil.

For kicks you know we will need 2 dmen if we remove Green. Two top 4 dmen. Which one of these would you sign and how much would you pay them over what term?:

http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents?year_id=2014&team_id=-1&position_id=D&fa_type_id=2

You'll notice most are old, injury prone more than Green and running out of gas. Yet...they will get PAID b/c thats how the NHL works especially with the salary cap raising.

Or if you have trades in mind present them. Remember we won't just need 1 guy as we do now. Remove Green and we'll defintiely need 2.

Assuming we've fired the handedness buffoon, I'd really like to add Hemsky to this team. Imagine the skill in the top 9 with him in the lineup, and it could also open up the option for GMGM to trade Johansson.
He's looked really good since finally being out of the blackhole in Edmonton.

With all due respect my man....WHY THE HECK WOULD WE WANT ANOTHER WINGER????

We have dire needs at D and perhaps C and have to figure out our G situation. One thing we have is excess wingers yet you want to bring another one on board??

Even assuming we remove Oates he is brittle as he is a soft perimeter type who is getting up there in age and will want some $$$

Our top 6 needs more room for Wilson, Fehr and perhaps Burakovsky. We need a reliable 3C who can win draws instead of having a converted winger there.

Not to rag on you but I am going to anyhow! :)
 
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Raikkonen

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Assuming we've fired the handedness buffoon, I'd really like to add Hemsky to this team. Imagine the skill in the top 9 with him in the lineup, and it could also open up the option for GMGM to trade Johansson.
He's looked really good since finally being out of the blackhole in Edmonton.

Johansson can potentially grow up as our future #2C. I still believe in it.
 

RandyHolt

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Johansson can potentially grow up as our future #2C. I still believe in it.

I believe it too, but it sure looks like they are trying to make him an winger. Which looks like an exercise in futility.

He just needs to get away from Ovi and Nick where he is far too passive and deferring at every instance, play with speed guys like Chimera, and do what he does best. Skate. He has offensive skills and a decent shot, but do we ever even see him try a simple slapper? Nope.
 

BobRouse

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I believe it too, but it sure looks like they are trying to make him an winger. Which looks like an exercise in futility.

He just needs to get away from Ovi and Nick where he is far too passive and deferring at every instance, play with speed guys like Chimera, and do what he does best. Skate. He has offensive skills and a decent shot, but do we ever even see him try a simple slapper? Nope.

I think the problem is his faceoffs. If we had a more face off sound team then he is a much better center than he is a winger and we could get by with his lack of face off skill.

But as the team is positioned now we need and upgrade in that department.

I like MJ as a player and he still has room to grow and get better. But he also has value to address other needs on the team so I believe we should seek to move him this offseason.

If he's not going to be a C (for reasons I pointed out FO%) then I don't want him being a wing. With Kuznetsov emerging and Chimera locked in again that leave #1LW open (we don't want Kuz with 8/19 FOR NOW/Next year do we?). Even if we do that would leave #2 LW open and again I'd put in Fehr or perhaps Laich if he's healthy.

We also direly need to move Wilson in the top 9 which really means top 6 (dont want to mess with Chimera/Ward) along with Burakovsky and Barber waiting in the wings.

We have too many wingers that need ice time.

I believe Fehr, Laich or another bigger player fits better in that slot.
 

BobRouse

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MJ improved every year, before this one.

FOs 40, 43, 46.... dumped to winger for good. 35%

So we abandoned ship as he was clearly showing progress. We got Ribs and now Grabs as our 2Cs, I think we wanted more center depth over concerns about faceoff failures.

2010-11
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....ountry=&status=&viewName=faceOffPercentageAll

I mean right now we have a 4th line C playing as a #1C and a career winger playing #3C. If MJ isn't going to get his shot now then they have all but given up on him as a C for whatever reason really..

If thats the case we have to exchange excess wingers and bring aboard another C (or two if we don't resign Grabovski)
 

Mothra

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BR we just disagree on 52 and if he can be counted on...

So he had 4 points in a first round loss, is that supposed to be on his resume'? He was "amazing" or even "excellent"...he followed up that solid, yes solid, series with a poor season and yet another concussion. Since its not his wonky groin this time, just another concussion...you seem to be celebrating this as a sign that his durability is now a thing of the past...premature IMO

I know you want me to pick some names to sign and trade for so you can explain to me why 52 is better etc etc...I will say players get moved all the time that people werent expecting. I stand by my statement that 6 mil can be better used than on a one dimensional player with an injury history whose best play was years ago and has never been the same player in the playoffs as he has shown in the regular season. Add to that he isnt even the best D on the team

Im curious...what do your fancy stats tell you about Schultz and his +50 season? Im guessing that he is a hell of a player...I trust my eyes more than that....you can rely solely on stats but I will use them in conjunction with what I actually see
 

BobRouse

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BR we just disagree on 52 and if he can be counted on...

So he had 4 points in a first round loss, is that supposed to be on his resume'? He was "amazing" or even "excellent"...he followed up that solid, yes solid, series with a poor season and yet another concussion. Since its not his wonky groin this time, just another concussion...you seem to be celebrating this as a sign that his durability is now a thing of the past...premature IMO

I know you want me to pick some names to sign and trade for so you can explain to me why 52 is better etc etc...I will say players get moved all the time that people werent expecting. I stand by my statement that 6 mil can be better used than on a one dimensional player with an injury history whose best play was years ago and has never been the same player in the playoffs as he has shown in the regular season. Add to that he isnt even the best D on the team

Im curious...what do your fancy stats tell you about Schultz and his +50 season? Im guessing that he is a hell of a player...I trust my eyes more than that....you can rely solely on stats but I will use them in conjunction with what I actually see

Mothra

I am no expert on fancy stats. Guys like Liberation and others are far more knowledgable than me on them but I am pretty sure they think +/- is a pretty worthless stat but not 100%. Corsi and Fenwick seem to be the best metrics.

I think Green's D has come a long way and he is learning to balance that with his O.

I think $7-8 million is going to be the new $6 million here shortly. We are not short on cap space and if we do want to spend the dollars more wisely Green would be down the list.

We have far too many wingers. Removing Brouwer, Laich and MJ will mean we will have some absurd amount of money this offseason..somewhere between 20-25 million. Before even considering Green's cost benefit we have to look at the structure of the roster and see that we desperately need D and desperately need to dispose of superflous wingers.

That said if we can't extend Mike Green this offseason then I would look to move him by the draft.

We've seen how much better he has played right as soon as he got a somewhat vet reliable partner in Hillen. Last year he tore it up during the stretch playing with Alzner.

The easier solution would be to get a legit top 4 partner for him and to get/have a coach who will release the reigns and let him carry the puck more.
 

BobRouse

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BR we just disagree on 52 and if he can be counted on...

So he had 4 points in a first round loss, is that supposed to be on his resume'? He was "amazing" or even "excellent"...he followed up that solid, yes solid, series with a poor season and yet another concussion. Since its not his wonky groin this time, just another concussion...you seem to be celebrating this as a sign that his durability is now a thing of the past...premature IMO

I know you want me to pick some names to sign and trade for so you can explain to me why 52 is better etc etc...I will say players get moved all the time that people werent expecting. I stand by my statement that 6 mil can be better used than on a one dimensional player with an injury history whose best play was years ago and has never been the same player in the playoffs as he has shown in the regular season. Add to that he isnt even the best D on the team

Im curious...what do your fancy stats tell you about Schultz and his +50 season? Im guessing that he is a hell of a player...I trust my eyes more than that....you can rely solely on stats but I will use them in conjunction with what I actually see

RE: Concussion - lots of players have multiple concussions but Green's aren't serious like the ones suffered by Backstrom and Crosby. I don't believe this to be a huge deal as none of the ones Green suffered were severe like that. And it seems both Crosby and Backstrom recovered just fine.
 

NobodyBeatsTheWiz

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Forget the stats, fancy or otherwise.

The problem with Green is the inconsistent effort that often leads to lackadaisical play, and the inability to overcome a physical forecheck. These have been long-standing problems that he has not corrected at the age of 28 after over 550 NHL games. Combine that with his physical fragility, and he becomes a player that's expendable who you shouldn't commit much money to.
 

BobRouse

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Forget the stats, fancy or otherwise.

The problem with Green is the inconsistent effort that often leads to lackadaisical play, and the inability to overcome a physical forecheck. These have been long-standing problems that he has not corrected at the age of 28 after over 550 NHL games. Combine that with his physical fragility, and he becomes a player that's expendable who you shouldn't commit much money to.

The fact is we are a better team when he is on the ice. The metrics support that.

Its easy to look at a players deficiencies. You do know the bolded part also applied to Larry Murphy and Sergei Gonchar who fans said the EXACT SAME THINGS ABOUT.

How did that work out for us when we let them go? They went on to be central parts of teams that won 5 or 6 stanley cups didn't they?

It so easy for fans to destroy offensive dmen. They are the biggest whipping boys on teams right after the head coach and goalie.
 

BrooklynCapsFan

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RE: Concussion - lots of players have multiple concussions but Green's aren't serious like the ones suffered by Backstrom and Crosby. I don't believe this to be a huge deal as none of the ones Green suffered were severe like that. And it seems both Crosby and Backstrom recovered just fine.

He had a bad concussion in 2011. Do you really forget this stuff or are you just pretending it didn't happen?

And for every Backstrom recovery store there's a Deadmarsh, Lindros, Richter, Pronger, Primeau, Kariya, Lafontaine and dozens of others that I'm forgetting.
 

Hivemind

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He had a bad concussion in 2011. Do you really forget this stuff or are you just pretending it didn't happen?

And for every Backstrom recovery store there's a Deadmarsh, Lindros, Richter, Pronger, Primeau, Kariya, Lafontaine and dozens of others that I'm forgetting.

And there are dozens of others who do recover. Concussions are serious matters that should be given plenty of attention, but that doesn't mean that every player who has a concussion has no more career.
 

BrooklynCapsFan

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And there are dozens of others who do recover. Concussions are serious matters that should be given plenty of attention, but that doesn't mean that every player who has a concussion has no more career.

I'd imagine the pool of players with 4/5/whatever concussions he has, who take a leap after 8 seasons is fairly small.
 
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