Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXXIV -- The Doggiest Days (Woof!) 2017

[g00n]

Trotz has always had a reputation as a defense-first coach who's also usually had good goaltending. I don't think anyone is going to accuse him of never bringing up good defensive defensemen. But that's also about it. And one would expect the position that benefits most from a "don't make mistakes or you'll be benched" environment would be...stay at home defensemen. There isn't a more conservative position on the ice.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Submission denied....only draft picks eligible in this scenario.

Plus, I refuse to live in the past and discuss that trade anymore.

Funny how he went from being "one of the league's worst GMs" according to HF to having HF praise him as the best GM in the league for making 3 great trades.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

6 regular Caps d-men under Trotz

Niskanen- Has gotten better but was always a Top 4 d man I think his development is due to just getting more of a role and not anything Trotz has done with him

Orlov- Has gotten much better since playing with Niskanen. Not on Trotz. If anything it probably killed Trotz having a "young guy" playing with Niskanen until it worked.

Carlson- Has gotten worse without a doubt with Trotz here

Alzner- Ditto. Got hurt, slowed down, took a nose dive under Trotz

Orpik- has been and always will be a dumpster fire

Schmidt- Got better seemingly ever game, Trotz throws him in the press box in the playoffs.


Trotz is a good coach, but is far from the right coach for this team. he does not put young guys in a position to succeed. Just watch as he puts Vrana on the 4th line where he can't do anything all season long.

Carlson's injuries are to blame for his decline. He had his best season in 2015 under Trotz. Alzner played his best hockey under Trotz too, from 2015 until his injury.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Funny how he went from being "one of the league's worst GMs" according to HF to having HF praise him as the best GM in the league for making 3 great trades.

What have you done for me lately? That's pro sports for you....

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

What have you done for me lately? That's pro sports for you....

The lifespan of GMs and coaches in the NHL is getting shorter over the years.
GMGM is lucky to have lasted 17 years in the same job.

 

[HTFN]

Dale Hunter had his flaws and wanted to win his way too. He's literally the only coach in Caps history to cut Ovechkin's ice time down to 13 minutes in a playoff game.

Cody Eakin was a mediocre player, he maxed out as a 40 point winger on the full offense Dallas Stars. In return we got one year of Ribeiro in which he scored a point per game for us. I'd do that trade again 10/10 times.

... Because Ovechkin wasn't playing the kind of hockey that was going to win them games. I love the guy, but that was pretty obvious. Dale Hunter's way to win was to leave the arena with a higher score than the other team. If you were a player who was making positive contributions to the lineup, like Schmidt was this year or Orlov was in Hunter's time here, that player would be found some TOI. Ovechkin was schlubbing around at times, who was his ice time being given to? I remember Chimera and Ward running roughshod in Boston, I'd toss them a few extra minutes myself.

I don't see that in Trotz, and never have.

I'm not saying these are 1 for 1 scenarios here, but I'd rather have Cody Eakin than Lars Eller. I would have rather grown Eakin at home than trade him for a stopgap solution (all while the team continued to need the checking-line player that he was turning into). I would have rather continued the rotation of young core pieces than a paint-by-numbers "this is how you build champions" method of rental acquisition.

This team does not take an honest inventory of their strengths and weaknesses at an organizational level the way one would expect champions to. It's practically in their training camp mantras. They're so focused on Will Over Skill that they don't actually seem to have the Will To Build Skills. No wonder forward prospects keep stalling out around here, the only thing they seem to be taught is "how to work relatively hard".

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

... Because Ovechkin wasn't playing the kind of hockey that was going to win them games. I love the guy, but that was pretty obvious. Dale Hunter's way to win was to leave the arena with a higher score than the other team. If you were a player who was making positive contributions to the lineup, like Schmidt was this year or Orlov was in Hunter's time here, that player would be found some TOI. Ovechkin was schlubbing around at times, who was his ice time being given to? I remember Chimera and Ward running roughshod in Boston, I'd toss them a few extra minutes myself.

I don't see that in Trotz, and never have.

I'm not saying these are 1 for 1 scenarios here, but I'd rather have Cody Eakin than Lars Eller. I would have rather grown Eakin at home than trade him for a stopgap solution (all while the team continued to need the checking-line player that he was turning into). I would have rather continued the rotation of young core pieces than a paint-by-numbers "this is how you build champions" method of rental acquisition.

This team does not take an honest inventory of their strengths and weaknesses at an organizational level the way one would expect champions to. It's practically in their training camp mantras. They're so focused on Will Over Skill that they don't actually seem to have the Will To Build Skills. No wonder forward prospects keep stalling out around here, the only thing they seem to be taught is "how to work relatively hard".

He was busy doing what nobody else on the team could, except Semin. Hunter gave 4 minutes of ice time on the PP in game 6 to Keith Aucoin, that was a minute more than Semin. He won games because he was lucky enough to have Holtby hold the fort against the Bruins. You win games by scoring goals and Ovechkin does that better than anyone. Hunter hockey was boring and shot our best player's confidence. Dale Hunter's plan was to win by one goal, just like Barry Trotz. Coin flip hockey, turtle fest, call it whatever you want. The series vs the Bruins was 7 straight one goal games IIRC. I don't see a big difference TBH.

You won't convince me that Cody Eakin is a better player than Lars Eller. He has a better scoring touch but he doesn't defend as well as Eller and he isn't as good when it comes to protecting the puck.

Will over skill is a ****** mantra, I agree with you on that. It should be will + skill. We don't have that many forward prospects stalling. Most of them never make it because they're not actually that good. Wilson's progression was halted because of Oates rushing him to the NHL, but he's slowly progressing again. The Tom Wilson we had this year is 10 times better than the 19 year old Tom Wilson.

We've been drafting late for the past 8 years because we almost always finish at the top of the standings. Give us a mid first rounder again and we could pop another Filip Forsberg.

 

[RandyHolt]

IIRC Ovi had as many ES goals under Hunter, as pretty much any other coach he had. He is good for about 25 ES per year. PPGs have been clouding stats more than ever in the 3-2 era.

One could argue he got more at ES from him in less time. Yeah, it means he should have played him more to most, but it also means Ovi was efficient, making better use of his TOI. Maybe he gave a better effort in the little TOI he was getting, vs knowing he was going to get 20 if he floated or not.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

IIRC Ovi had as many ES goals under Hunter, as pretty much any other coach he had. He is good for about 25 ES per year. PPGs have been clouding stats more than ever in the 3-2 era.

One could argue he got more at ES from him in less time. Yeah, it means he should have played him more to most, but it also means Ovi was efficient, making better use of his TOI. Maybe he gave a better effort in the little TOI he was getting, vs knowing he was going to get 20 if he floated or not.

It was in the playoffs. With a chance to eliminate your opponent, you play your best cards.

 

[Ovechclutch]

IIRC Ovi had as many ES goals under Hunter, as pretty much any other coach he had. He is good for about 25 ES per year. PPGs have been clouding stats more than ever in the 3-2 era.

One could argue he got more at ES from him in less time. Yeah, it means he should have played him more to most, but it also means Ovi was efficient, making better use of his TOI. Maybe he gave a better effort in the little TOI he was getting, vs knowing he was going to get 20 if he floated or not.

Under hunter he played roughly the same amount of time as he did in 14-15 and 15-16. He was on pace for 28 even strength goals, which is really impressive considering Backie was injured most of that time and Semin played on a different line I'm pretty sure. One thing for sure though, he played a hell of a lot better under Hunter than Boudreau that year.

 

[Brian23]

As an aside, as every one of these "megadeals" keeps coming out it keeps making Kuzya'a deal look a little better each time.

 

[g00n]

His boxcars don't warrant a big payday. The arbitration process won't be generous and won't pay for his upside. Most of his comparables are in the $2M or less range.

He got a little more than $2M/yr

https://sports.yahoo.com/golden-knights-end-nate-schmidt-drama-122948363.html

As Steve Carp reported around the time of the hearing: “Schmidt, 26, is seeking a one-year, $2.75 million deal while the Knights are offering $1.9 million over two years. A four-year NHL veteran, Schmidt made $875,000 last season as a member of the Washington Capitals.â€

Well, the arbitration ruling came down and here’s the deal: Schmidt gets an AAV of $2.225 million and the Knights get him for two seasons, as Schmidt makes $2.15 million in 2017-18 and $2.3 million in 2018-19.

 

[Ridley Simon]

He got a little more than $2M/yr

https://sports.yahoo.com/golden-knights-end-nate-schmidt-drama-122948363.html

So Grubauer and say Bowey out and Schmidt and Copley in.....would we have afforded that? All else same?

 

[Sam Spade]

So Grubauer and say Bowey out and Schmidt and Copley in.....would we have afforded that? All else same?

I wouldn't trade Bowey for Schmidt.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I wouldn't trade Bowey for Schmidt.

I'm discussing salaries only. Bowey would still be w the Org, I'd assume. Unless he was the piece that got George to take Grubs.

Even had we done something like that, would we have afforded it? Or would that have meant another player gone (like Connolly, I would have been fine w that....perhaps he will have a good season and prove me wrong)

 

[Langway]

I'm discussing salaries only. Bowey would still be w the Org, I'd assume. Unless he was the piece that got George to take Grubs.

Even had we done something like that, would we have afforded it? Or would that have meant another player gone (like Connolly, I would have been fine w that....perhaps he will have a good season and prove me wrong)

They still would have been ~$125k short. Schmidt's first year salary wouldn't have worked either. Maybe they could have agreed to a one-year, $2M deal or something.

Like I said, I think Vegas botched this one. To have the first arbitration ruling in two years as an expansion franchise with zero cap issues is needless. Sure, they'll likely swap him out at some point for more futures but they need to build a backbone eventually. Playing it forward is just gives McPhee a longer leash to be wishy-washy. They got some pretty decent players in the draft, headlined by Brannstrom IMO, but planning on sucking for a while is a pretty crappy strategy these days.

 

[RandyHolt]

Can we grade George's expansion draft? I don't know players league wide but from what I read, it seems like he took a mishmash of players - some win now types, and others closer to garbage - almost like he took some bad players for undisclosed future considerations.

I think he has laid out the long slow build a cup winner / job security plan, while the league went out of their way to make teams bend over and cough up a good player, in an effort to let Vegas hit the ground running and compete much sooner than George wants. The charm of going to see Vegas on the road will soon wear off with a lame duck lineup that will take years to compete proper.

I grade him a D+. It must be nice having job security knowing casinos are buying up season tickets no matter if they are good or not. I don't think he could pull this 'the league wants me to compete now but I will compete later stunt' in another market.

Yeah and what's up with the NHL Headline
30 NHL players file for salary arbitration
Schmidt lone player with hearing scheduled

Maybe Nate's agent is one of many that hates or hated George from his time here. He really couldn't work out his first deal without help?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

He was busy doing what nobody else on the team could, except Semin. Hunter gave 4 minutes of ice time on the PP in game 6 to Keith Aucoin, that was a minute more than Semin. He won games because he was lucky enough to have Holtby hold the fort against the Bruins. You win games by scoring goals and Ovechkin does that better than anyone. Hunter hockey was boring and shot our best player's confidence. Dale Hunter's plan was to win by one goal, just like Barry Trotz. Coin flip hockey, turtle fest, call it whatever you want. The series vs the Bruins was 7 straight one goal games IIRC. I don't see a big difference TBH.

You won't convince me that Cody Eakin is a better player than Lars Eller. He has a better scoring touch but he doesn't defend as well as Eller and he isn't as good when it comes to protecting the puck.

Will over skill is a ****** mantra, I agree with you on that. It should be will + skill. We don't have that many forward prospects stalling. Most of them never make it because they're not actually that good. Wilson's progression was halted because of Oates rushing him to the NHL, but he's slowly progressing again. The Tom Wilson we had this year is 10 times better than the 19 year old Tom Wilson.

We've been drafting late for the past 8 years because we almost always finish at the top of the standings. Give us a mid first rounder again and we could pop another Filip Forsberg.

I disagree with one thing. I don't believe Hunter planned to win by only one goal. I think he would have loved to win by a larger margin, but to do that was to increase risk on a team with glaring holes and issues.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Planning on sucking is the only way to guarantee your franchise a star draftee or 3-4. I said it when he was hired. They are planning on sucking for at least 2-3 seasons to get those star players. His expansion draft was built largely around getting guys with value to trade today or in the future, like with Schmidt.

 

[Raikkonen]

So Schmidt is UFA in 2 years?! OK Time flies by.

 

[MrGone]

I wouldn't trade Bowey for Schmidt.

How many games have you seen Bowey play?

 

[Revelation]

I wouldn't trade Bowey for Schmidt.

Bowey doesn't have a top 4 NHL future

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I disagree with one thing. I don't believe Hunter planned to win by only one goal. I think he would have loved to win by a larger margin, but to do that was to increase risk on a team with glaring holes and issues.

No coach truly wishes to win every game by one goal, but in practice that's exactly what happened under Hunter. One could argue that the 2012 Capitals were lucky to get as far as they got, considering how they played. Defeating the Bruins in the first round was a huge upset. They won the Cup the year before and got to the finals the year after. Our defense was awful. Consisted of a post-2010 Mike Green, young Carlson and Alzner, Hamrlik and Wideman. He played safe, and playing safe meant winning one goal games. My biggest issue with Hunter is that he stifled creativity on offense. I understand playing safe in your own zone, but with the players we had on offense, Hunter should've given them a bit more freedom to create.

In hindsight, I think we abandoned run and gun too early. We didn't have the personnel to play another type of game until Barry Trotz got here.

 

[Sam Spade]

How many games have you seen Bowey play?

About 20 in Hershey and three rookie/Dev camps.

Bowey doesn't have a top 4 NHL future

I think he does, at least as much as I see Nate Schmidt having one.

I get that Schmidt is apparently now seen as the next Erik K. but I will stick with 22 year old Bowey over 26 year old Schmidt.

I think Bowey is going to surprise a lot of people.

 

[bur and 666 others]

I'm surprised that on the main board so many people listed our 1&2 punch down the middle as the second best. I'm maybe bias after many disappointing playoffs, but honestly i don't see that. Thought they are in the middle of the puck with Kuznetsov being X factor that could swing them to either direction. Strange to see them ranked so high.