Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXXIV -- The Doggiest Days (Woof!) 2017

[g00n]

He has to, unless he's willing to play Backstrom and Kuznetsov 22 minutes per night each. If he does that, they'll be gassed even before the playoffs start.

Bingo. This would be by far Trotz's biggest failure in his career. Our star power alone is enough to get us in the playoffs, he should use this to his advantage to take time for the prospects.

We keep getting these method coaches. Oates had his peculiar preferences and theories he foisted on everyone which included an overemphasis on ignoring bad results or putting them out of your head quickly. There's some usefulness there but I always got the impression he was taking the entire bottle instead of just one pill. IMO players learned there was little consequence for poor play since it would be "forgotten" by the coaching staff by the next morning. When you have a squad that has motivational issues this seems like a formula for underachieving, and it was. Oates' approach would've made more sense on a case by case basis for players who beat themselves up TOO MUCH, not those who are too non-chalant.

With Trotz the philosophy seems to be much more linear in relation to ones place on the team. If you work hard you will be rewarded with ice time. If you make mistakes you will be punished by having your ice time cut.

This is NOT a sound approach when dealing with young players who NEED as much experience as they can get and who must be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them. They can't be taught that a wrong pass or a muff could result in being benched or demoted, especially if they see veteran players making the same mistakes and suffering no consequences. In addition to a confusion of the expectations and message (which ends up being "vets get special treatment") it could easily train young players to fear mistakes and thus avoid anything that might mean extending their abilities. They will never go outside of their comfort zone and will stick to the script, which means STUNTED DEVELOPMENT.

Maybe this is why Trotz gained the reputation as a poor developer of young talent. If you demand someone's career and skills conform to a rigid set of expectations under penalty of losing your job, then don't be surprised when your prospects plateau right around the baseline expectations you set for them.

The veterans and coaches need to bring the younger players along and help them learn from their mistakes in a fairly free environment where the expectations are clear but not overly constrained. The experienced NHL people may have to pick up some of the slack at times, and guide the trainees in the right direction. I'm not saying this doesn't happen already to some degree, but if there's that stick of being scratched hanging over someone's head every night then he will play tight and conservatively and probably peak quickly well below his expected upside. And the nervousness may actually make him more prone to mistakes anyway.

 

[um]

Trotz was not kind with ice time with a young Orlov, Schmidt, Wilson, Burakovsky, or Kuznetsov. I hope he changes but I highly doubt it. Perhaps we'll get our wish and he is fired after a slow start, but I'm ready for way too much Connolly, Wilson and Chorney next season.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

We keep getting these method coaches. Oates had his peculiar preferences and theories he foisted on everyone which included an overemphasis on ignoring bad results or putting them out of your head quickly. There's some usefulness there but I always got the impression he was taking the entire bottle instead of just one pill. IMO players learned there was little consequence for poor play since it would be "forgotten" by the coaching staff by the next morning. When you have a squad that has motivational issues this seems like a formula for underachieving, and it was. Oates' approach would've made more sense on a case by case basis for players who beat themselves up TOO MUCH, not those who are too non-chalant.

With Trotz the philosophy seems to be much more linear in relation to ones place on the team. If you work hard you will be rewarded with ice time. If you make mistakes you will be punished by having your ice time cut.

This is NOT a sound approach when dealing with young players who NEED as much experience as they can get and who must be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them. They can't be taught that a wrong pass or a muff could result in being benched or demoted, especially if they see veteran players making the same mistakes and suffering no consequences. In addition to a confusion of the expectations and message (which ends up being "vets get special treatment") it could easily train young players to fear mistakes and thus avoid anything that might mean extending their abilities. They will never go outside of their comfort zone and will stick to the script, which means STUNTED DEVELOPMENT.

Maybe this is why Trotz gained the reputation as a poor developer of young talent. If you demand someone's career and skills conform to a rigid set of expectations under penalty of losing your job, then don't be surprised when your prospects plateau right around the baseline expectations you set for them.

The veterans and coaches need to bring the younger players along and help them learn from their mistakes in a fairly free environment where the expectations are clear but not overly constrained. The experienced NHL people may have to pick up some of the slack at times, and guide the trainees in the right direction. I'm not saying this doesn't happen already to some degree, but if there's that stick of being scratched hanging over someone's head every night then he will play tight and conservatively and probably peak quickly well below his expected upside. And the nervousness may actually make him more prone to mistakes anyway.

I agree with you on all accounts but one. Trotz can develop young talent. He developed three elite Ds in Nashville. Weber, Suter and Josi all began their career under Trotz and they turned out just fine.

You could argue that he allowed Kuzy to blossom into a star, even if the first year was difficult. On the other hand, I thought he could've handled Burakovsky better. There were reports that Burakovsky was too nervous and/or not in a great mood at times.

Eventually we're going to need a coach that caters to young players first, because we need to replace our vets pretty soon.
It is no secret that Trotz' favourite players on the team are all vets. Backstrom, Orpik, Williams and Oshie all got the veteran special treatment at one point. You never heard him rave about one of our young guys, except maybe Kuzy.

 

[OV Rocks]

I agree with you on all accounts but one. Trotz can develop young talent. He developed three elite Ds in Nashville. Weber, Suter and Josi all began their career under Trotz and they turned out just fine.

You could argue that he allowed Kuzy to blossom into a star, even if the first year was difficult. On the other hand, I thought he could've handled Burakovsky better. There were reports that Burakovsky was too nervous and/or not in a great mood at times.

Eventually we're going to need a coach that caters to young players first, because we need to replace our vets pretty soon.
It is no secret that Trotz' favourite players on the team are all vets. Backstrom, Orpik, Williams and Oshie all got the veteran special treatment at one point. You never heard him rave about one of our young guys, except maybe Kuzy.

3 guys in what 15 years?

He has zero history of developing Top 6 forwards

 

[txpd]

Trotz was not kind with ice time with a young Orlov, Schmidt, Wilson, Burakovsky, or Kuznetsov. I hope he changes but I highly doubt it. Perhaps we'll get our wish and he is fired after a slow start, but I'm ready for way too much Connolly, Wilson and Chorney next season.

What is too much Wilson?

 

[um]

What is too much Wilson?

Top 6 Wilson, PP time Wilson. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw that a little too much.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Is Riley Barber going to be on the team next year? ive seen a lot of things saying he very well could be

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

3 guys in what 15 years?

He has zero history of developing Top 6 forwards

We need him to develop defensemen right now. That's supposedly his bread and butter. Schmidt and Orlov took a big step forward under him last year. We shall see what he does now.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

3 guys in what 15 years?

He has zero history of developing Top 6 forwards

Realize who was drafting for him. David "I can only find a legit forward if I trip over him, but I know my D" Poile!

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Is Riley Barber going to be on the team next year? ive seen a lot of things saying he very well could be

He should get a look at camp for the 4th line

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Realize who was drafting for him. David "I can only find a legit forward if I trip over him, but I know my D" Poile!

You can also call him David "I can only find a legit forward if the stupid GMs in the East trade them to me" Poile

 

[OV Rocks]

We need him to develop defensemen right now. That's supposedly his bread and butter. Schmidt and Orlov took a big step forward under him last year. We shall see what he does now.

Yeah after sitting both in the playoffs for slow veterans. I don't trust him to have enough of a leash to let the young guys learn from their mistakes and grow

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Yeah after sitting both in the playoffs for slow veterans. I don't trust him to have enough of a leash to let the young guys learn from their mistakes and grow

That was two years ago, and both guys were essential this year. Schmidt outplayed every other D in the series vs the Pens. Please be patient. I don't expect Djoos, Bowey or Johansen to become instantly NHL regulars, if they ever make it.

Prospects are a bit of a crap shoot.

 

[HTFN]

That was two years ago, and both guys were essential this year. Schmidt outplayed every other D in the series vs the Pens. Please be patient. I don't expect Djoos, Bowey or Johansen to become instantly NHL regulars, if they ever make it.

Prospects are a bit of a crap shoot.

How much more patient should we expect to be with a guy who is no longer in the organization? This doesn't exactly strike me as a point in your favor, Trotz underappreciated and underplayed Schmidt all season, and then poof. Very little indication that Trotz was in Schmidt's corner as far as development is concerned. Certainly not enough to warrant his protection.

If your young homegrown defenseman outplays all your others but the coaching staff apparently can't seem to find adequate value in him, who exactly deserves the credit there? There's no sense in being an extra farm team for the rest of the NHL, so even if their developmental eggs are in a row in terms of growing a player's skills, there's little to no good faith remaining in the organization to make responsible decisions as to which of these players is worth keeping or not (or how to build a style of play that maximizes the use of those skills).

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

How much more patient should we expect to be with a guy who is no longer in the organization? This doesn't exactly strike me as a point in your favor, Trotz underappreciated and underplayed Schmidt all season, and then poof. Very little indication that Trotz was in Schmidt's corner as far as development is concerned. Certainly not enough to warrant his protection.

If your young homegrown defenseman outplays all your others but the coaching staff apparently can't seem to find adequate value in him, who exactly deserves the credit there? There's no sense in being an extra farm team for the rest of the NHL, so even if their developmental eggs are in a row in terms of growing a player's skills, there's little to no good faith remaining in the organization to make responsible decisions as to which of these players is worth keeping or not (or how to build a style of play that maximizes the use of those skills).

Schmidt not being in a Caps jersey for next year is squarely on GMBM. He chose to protect 7 forwards and 3 Ds instead of 4 and 4. They feel they can replace Schmidt easily with the prospects.

We were going to lose a good player in the expansion draft. I would've liked us to make a deal with someone before the expansion draft to trade away Johansson and protect 4 Ds, but we didn't.

Which players did we prepare for another team recently, aside from Forsberg and Schmidt? We're not the league's farm team by any means. Trotz and the management certainly rewarded Orlov with the big contract he was looking for. They do reward performance.

Let's not act like Trotz didn't reward Schmidt in the playoffs for his performance. He even sat Shattenkirk a few times to give Schmidt more shifts.

Now I'm not sure he's going to handle the current batch of prospects well, he might run out of patience too fast with them.

 

[HTFN]

Schmidt not being in a Caps jersey for next year is squarely on GMBM. He chose to protect 7 forwards and 3 Ds instead of 4 and 4. They feel they can replace Schmidt easily with the prospects.

We were going to lose a good player in the expansion draft. I would've liked us to make a deal with someone before the expansion draft to trade away Johansson and protect 4 Ds, but we didn't.

Which players did we prepare for another team recently, aside from Forsberg and Schmidt? We're not the league's farm team by any means. Trotz and the management certainly rewarded Orlov with the big contract he was looking for. They do reward performance.

Let's not act like Trotz didn't reward Schmidt in the playoffs for his performance. He even sat Shattenkirk a few times to give Schmidt more shifts.

Now I'm not sure he's going to handle the current batch of prospects well, he might run out of patience too fast with them.

I don't think I agree with that. While GMBM may have the final say, if the Capitals are an organization in which the head coach didn't contribute a say in who was worth keeping and who wasn't, then this is all pointless talk because there's far too much discord in their foundations to win anything. In fact, kudos to the group for even getting this far. This wouldn't be much to condemn a coach on its own, but like I said, we saw very little by way of Trotz showing confidence in Schmidt over the season, then in the playoffs it was as though he had been reluctantly strong-armed into playing his best defensemen.

It's literally stubbornness to a fault. Trotz doesn't want to win as much as he wants to win his way. There is no "whatever it takes" approach from him and that's ultimately why they continue to expose a soft underbelly, whether it's mentally or a failure to adapt. Dale Hunter had them looking more like winners than this.

EDIT: How you define recently is up to you, I guess. This started bothering me dating all the way back to Cody Eakin, so while I'm not going to sin GMBM for GMGM's sins, it was the first sign of going through the motions. No overarching plan or team ethos evident, just trading prospects for finished products because "that's what you do" and the same plug and chug, jack of all trades, master of none approach to teambuilding that persists into the current day.

 

[Portable Mink]

wish we could trade the entire team for a time machine so i could go back 17 years and warn myself not to follow hockey/the caps.

 

[RandyHolt]

Good stuff HTFN.

Barry could have forced Brian's hand. Instead, he made it easy to lose Schmidt by barely playing him. For some reason it took until this last year that Barry finally let him use his great wheels to consistently join the rush. Yeah Barry, we know, He needed to focus on D for a few years. While stunting his offensive side of course.

He looked great storming down right wing pushing D back. Chimeraesque almost. Lots of room to pass or shoot consistently, even if he fell afterwards. He is not your end of game closer type but that's what Barry always tries to mold young D into. Orpiks. Yet we still lose with Orpik.

I am sure it was easy for George to take notice. 88 looked great in every game for 2 months. All 10 games.

I think instead of rotating 7 D, and end up with Alzner at RD (in an untested pairing) burned up the gut on a breakaway, they should have just let him be a forward. Or, better yet scratch KevinS after he vanished.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Good stuff HTFN.

Barry could have forced Brian's hand. Instead, he made it easy to lose Schmidt by barely playing him. For some reason it took until this last year that Barry finally let him use his great wheels to consistently join the rush. Yeah Barry, we know, He needed to focus on D for a few years. While stunting his offensive side of course.

He looked great storming down right wing pushing D back. Chimeraesque almost. Lots of room to pass or shoot consistently, even if he fell afterwards. He is not your end of game closer type but that's what Barry always tries to mold young D into. Orpiks. Yet we still lose with Orpik.

I am sure it was easy for George to take notice. 88 looked great in every game for 2 months. All 10 games.

I think instead of rotating 7 D, and end up with Alzner at RD (in an untested pairing) burned up the gut on a breakaway, they should have just let him be a forward. Or, better yet scratch KevinS after he vanished.

Vanished?!?!? -- only to show up in New York City ..... as the actual 6million dollar man. Eat your heart out Lee Majors (RIP)? We should all vanish a little bit, yes RH?

 

[RandyHolt]

Vanished?!?!? -- only to show up in New York City ..... as the actual 6million dollar man. Eat your heart out Lee Majors (RIP)? We should all vanish a little bit, yes RH?

Lee Majors. Nice pull. All thought he had vanished when we saw this

We couldn't make KS better. That is hockey for you. You can be a liability on the ice, despised by your own fans and make millions. I can't wait to see Willy bearing down on him. Just like I'll cringe to see Reaves bearing down on Djoos.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I don't think I agree with that. While GMBM may have the final say, if the Capitals are an organization in which the head coach didn't contribute a say in who was worth keeping and who wasn't, then this is all pointless talk because there's far too much discord in their foundations to win anything. In fact, kudos to the group for even getting this far. This wouldn't be much to condemn a coach on its own, but like I said, we saw very little by way of Trotz showing confidence in Schmidt over the season, then in the playoffs it was as though he had been reluctantly strong-armed into playing his best defensemen.

It's literally stubbornness to a fault. Trotz doesn't want to win as much as he wants to win his way. There is no "whatever it takes" approach from him and that's ultimately why they continue to expose a soft underbelly, whether it's mentally or a failure to adapt. Dale Hunter had them looking more like winners than this.

EDIT: How you define recently is up to you, I guess. This started bothering me dating all the way back to Cody Eakin, so while I'm not going to sin GMBM for GMGM's sins, it was the first sign of going through the motions. No overarching plan or team ethos evident, just trading prospects for finished products because "that's what you do" and the same plug and chug, jack of all trades, master of none approach to teambuilding that persists into the current day.

Dale Hunter had his flaws and wanted to win his way too. He's literally the only coach in Caps history to cut Ovechkin's ice time down to 13 minutes in a playoff game.

Cody Eakin was a mediocre player, he maxed out as a 40 point winger on the full offense Dallas Stars. In return we got one year of Ribeiro in which he scored a point per game for us. I'd do that trade again 10/10 times.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You can also call him David "I can only find a legit forward if the stupid GMs in the East trade them to me" Poile

Submission denied....only draft picks eligible in this scenario.

Plus, I refuse to live in the past and discuss that trade anymore.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The coach doesn't pick the roster. At best, he's got a seat at the table giving input.

Considering how nicely Orlov and Schmidt progressed the last two seasons, I find it ironic people are hand wringing over D development.

 

[OV Rocks]

The coach doesn't pick the roster. At best, he's got a seat at the table giving input.

Considering how nicely Orlov and Schmidt progressed the last two seasons, I find it ironic people are hand wringing over D development.

6 regular Caps d-men under Trotz

Niskanen- Has gotten better but was always a Top 4 d man I think his development is due to just getting more of a role and not anything Trotz has done with him

Orlov- Has gotten much better since playing with Niskanen. Not on Trotz. If anything it probably killed Trotz having a "young guy" playing with Niskanen until it worked.

Carlson- Has gotten worse without a doubt with Trotz here

Alzner- Ditto. Got hurt, slowed down, took a nose dive under Trotz

Orpik- has been and always will be a dumpster fire

Schmidt- Got better seemingly ever game, Trotz throws him in the press box in the playoffs.


Trotz is a good coach, but is far from the right coach for this team. he does not put young guys in a position to succeed. Just watch as he puts Vrana on the 4th line where he can't do anything all season long.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Coach can't prevent guys from aging and getting hurt, etc...(see Carlson, Alzner, Orpik).


Giving Trotz no credit for the guys who have excelled under him is disingenuous and shows a clear bias. Hard to take that position seriously. Everyone wanted him gone pretty much, but come on....at least be real.