Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXXIV -- The Doggiest Days (Woof!) 2017

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CapitalsCupReality

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Feb 27, 2002
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I saw Spieth recover from the 3rd wheel almost falling off and I thought to myself, "wish the Caps had this kind of heart and mental toughness"....

I hadn't see a star major leader spraying the ball so badly in a while...amazing bounceback.
 

Ridley Simon

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I'm responding to a poster who argued that situational confidence and momentum were the needed ingredient rather than a different kind of confidence and professionalism. That has everything to do with luck because in the former case you're leaving everything to chance, as I said, in the hopes that the momentum of others or randomness will boost you to the appropriate performance level.

It's interesting you bring up Spieth because I was going to mention him as well. He could've collapsed and allowed his demons to jump up but instead he rallied, sucked it up, and got down to business. It's not magic. That's what champions do. He may be one of the best right now but ALL the top golfers know what he was experiencing at that time and have overcome similar situations in their lives. You don't win, or even make the Pro tour, without having some of that in your bag. With Spieth it happened on a bigger stage than most because he put himself in that position.

What you saw there was Spieth learning from his mistakes rather than being overwhelmed by fear when a similar collapse seemed to be unfolding. He confronted it with his caddie and DECIDED he was not going to let it happen. He didn't just go along with the breaks and say "oh well, bad luck on that hole, what can you do, I'll get em next year". Hell, on the very first hole his caddie told him "get over it" when he whined about a bad lie for his second shot. It's a constant challenge but one that can be overcome. With the Capitals, such breaks are seen as signs of the inevitable, impending disaster. Then it happens as I described earlier.

And yes, Sergio has been a head case for many years. It took him a long, long time to break through because of it. He's actually a perfect example of someone with massive talent but an inferior mental game 99% of the time, and it's been cited as a case study in some examinations. In golf it often manifests in putting, which is the part of the game that's the most mental and subject to even microscopic fluctuations of confidence. So it should not be any surprise that Sergio struggled with putting for years, especially down the stretch in majors, while a guy like Spieth has as strong putter as his greatest ally. You could see it yesterday with the early misses, then later on he drained everything. That's not a coincidence.

People seem to think the mental aspect of high level athletics is something you have forever or you don't. That's not true. It's something that needs constant work. Like a muscle it atrophies. And like a muscle you can strengthen it through training. Again, whether or not people avail themselves of that opportunity is on them.

Come on g00n. Spieth didnt just "decide" to change. Anymore than he decided to blow the lead. Spieth just got into the zone (as Michael Jordan used to talk about), where the mind actually lets go -- the fear -- and the body and training take over. Form over thought. Repetition over the mind. Sure, his caddie breaking his negative bubble helped a LOT (and maybe thats where the Caps have also had common problems/threads...no coaches to help right size their brains when things go wrong).

all of this is not what I was talking about with luck though. The Caps have lost games with bad luck. No time to bounce back when the whistle blows. No time to right size. Yes, its happened in game too, and then they have right sized and played terrifically...but not on the scoreboard.

And to your point about many golfers having beaten that fear at lower levels. Sure. But thats no different than any sport. The Caps have many players that have won a LOT at the lower levels. Doesnt mean it will happen at the highest level....or, like Sergio Garcia...until it does.
 

Ridley Simon

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I saw Spieth recover from the 3rd wheel almost falling off and I thought to myself, "wish the Caps had this kind of heart and mental toughness"....

I hadn't see a star major leader spraying the ball so badly in a while...amazing bounceback.

I think his caddie helped him immeasurably there. I know Spieth actually did it, but his confidence certainly got an assist from the caddie.

Maybe Ovechkin needs a caddie?
 

Coldplay619

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Oct 17, 2010
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I saw Spieth recover from the 3rd wheel almost falling off and I thought to myself, "wish the Caps had this kind of heart and mental toughness"....

I hadn't see a star major leader spraying the ball so badly in a while...amazing bounceback.

Individual sport.

A lot harder to get 23 guys going at the same time.
 

g00n

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Come on g00n. Spieth didnt just "decide" to change. Anymore than he decided to blow the lead. Spieth just got into the zone (as Michael Jordan used to talk about), where the mind actually lets go -- the fear -- and the body and training take over. Form over thought. Repetition over the mind. Sure, his caddie breaking his negative bubble helped a LOT (and maybe thats where the Caps have also had common problems/threads...no coaches to help right size their brains when things go wrong).

all of this is not what I was talking about with luck though. The Caps have lost games with bad luck. No time to bounce back when the whistle blows. No time to right size. Yes, its happened in game too, and then they have right sized and played terrifically...but not on the scoreboard.

And to your point about many golfers having beaten that fear at lower levels. Sure. But thats no different than any sport. The Caps have many players that have won a LOT at the lower levels. Doesnt mean it will happen at the highest level....or, like Sergio Garcia...until it does.


I know a good deal about this subject. You don't get to either Jordan's level by just letting it happen whenever it happens. You learn the best ways to put yourself in that state. Every pro golfer at that level does it. Every one. Even after holes like Spieth's 13th. Some are better than others. And not every one has a savvy caddy like Geller, who reined Jordan in more than once that round.

And the point regarding luck remains that when bad things happen you can recover more readily because you have this reorienting, resetting skill. You are not at the mercy of chance in your own mind, whether or not it's true in reality, and that buffers your performance.

There are enough veteran players on this team that transferring that ability to the NHL should not be an issue anymore.

I think his caddie helped him immeasurably there. I know Spieth actually did it, but his confidence certainly got an assist from the caddie.

Maybe Ovechkin needs a caddie?

This is where leadership comes into play on a hockey team. Whether it's the captain, a coach, or just someone in the locker room. There needs to be a presence that does this same kind of job.
 

g00n

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Individual sport.

A lot harder to get 23 guys going at the same time.


It happens all the time. Players will talk about how one of their guys put them on their back or got them going. But ultimately it's still about the individual professional taking care of his business. Maybe rookies who've been used to just letting it fly on talent can be excused for not learning how to elevate and prepare and react the way veterans do, but it's something players should be learning and they have access to far more resources now than they did even 10 or 20 years ago.

So there is no excuse for a team full of veterans to gag away in the playoffs the same way every...damn...year.
 

Ridley Simon

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I know a good deal about this subject. You don't get to either Jordan's level by just letting it happen whenever it happens. You learn the best ways to put yourself in that state. Every pro golfer at that level does it. Every one. Even after holes like Spieth's 13th. Some are better than others. And not every one has a savvy caddy like Geller, who reined Jordan in more than once that round.

And the point regarding luck remains that when bad things happen you can recover more readily because you have this reorienting, resetting skill. You are not at the mercy of chance in your own mind, whether or not it's true in reality, and that buffers your performance.

There are enough veteran players on this team that transferring that ability to the NHL should not be an issue anymore.



This is where leadership comes into play on a hockey team. Whether it's the captain, a coach, or just someone in the locker room. There needs to be a presence that does this same kind of job.

Right. And yet it still happens. Perhaps it is what it is....bad luck? You know, the thing you cant plan for, and that you cant prevent.

As I stated....I'd say there are *maybe* 10 years where luck was a large factor in the Caps playoff results. 2 for , 8 against. I get the whole "it evens out eventually" argument, and I hope it does. We have some good karma due our way.
 

Hivemind

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Oduya to Ottawa for 1 year @ $1M.

If they had shaved off a few hundred K from a couple of contracts, could have been possible here.
 

Langway

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That would have been possible but there's also another $1.25M in bonuses Oduya can earn on top of it. Between Chabot and Claesson it's a curious addition. They wanted to replace Methot's experience but I doubt Oduya has enough in the tank to play with Karlsson. As a depth PKer it works I suppose but it squeezes some of their depth guys for a pure stopgap.

Barring Markov signing at a massive, massive discount it's down to Beauchemin at LD more or less and Franson at RD.
 

Hivemind

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Beauch was one of the worst players on an awful Colorado defense last season. Really not interested in him.

I also hate to be that broken record, but some fictional off-season where they protect Schmidt, buy out Orpik, and add Oduya as the veteran 3rd pairing/PK mentor would be a lot more comfortable.
 

Hivemind

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Also, Daniel Winnik still out there. The longer he sits around, the more I think he ends up back in Washington on a dirt cheap deal. Probably better than DSP as a 4th line PK winger, but still a position they could have used an upgrade upon given his constant lack of impact in the playoffs.
 

Alexander the Gr8

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Also, Daniel Winnik still out there. The longer he sits around, the more I think he ends up back in Washington on a dirt cheap deal. Probably better than DSP as a 4th line PK winger, but still a position they could have used an upgrade upon given his constant lack of impact in the playoffs.

I have no idea how Winnik can score over 10 goals in the regular season and be completely useless time after time in the playoffs.

Game 7 against the Penguins, has a breakaway late in the 1st period. If that was the regular season, there's a good chance he scores or at least make it difficult for the goalie. Instead, he sends his shot a foot high and wide.

Don't want him back unless he takes league minimum for one year.
 

Langway

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We know what Winnik can offer and it basically disappears offensively once the playoffs roll around. He can be useful to get them there but they need to give the youth a chance. If they want a different element then try Upshall or something.

I'm fine going with the likes of Vrana, Walker/Stephenson, Djoos and Bowey to fill out the roster but they need to have patience with them at times and develop them properly. They need to start developing killers and not players out there trying not to make mistakes in order to gain the confidence of the coaching staff. Confidence needs to be a two-way street.
 

Alexander the Gr8

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We know what Winnik can offer and it basically disappears offensively once the playoffs roll around. He can be useful to get them there but they need to give the youth a chance. If they want a different element then try Upshall or something.

I'm fine going with the likes of Vrana, Walker/Stephenson, Djoos and Bowey to fill out the roster but they need to have patience with them at times and develop them properly. They need to start developing killers and not players out there trying not to make mistakes in order to gain the confidence of the coaching staff. Confidence needs to be a two-way street.

I wanted Hartnell but the Preds snatched him for cheap. Just three years ago he scored 28 goals and 60 points. He would've been a great option in our bottom 6 to upgrade Winnik.
 

BiPolar Caps

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I wanted Hartnell but the Preds snatched him for cheap. Just three years ago he scored 28 goals and 60 points. He would've been a great option in our bottom 6 to upgrade Winnik.

Hartnell played for Laviolette when with the Flyers and he began his career as a Predator, not to mention the Preds making it to the finals just all made sense for him to sign there.
 

Hivemind

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Hartnell and Sharp weren't coming here. Both went back "home" on sweetheart discounts. While some players may discount moderately to come to the Caps on occasion, we're not such a magnetic organization that established vets are willing to take pay cuts to $1M to play out their last few years here like Sharp, Hartnell, and Campbell have done with Chicago and Nashville.
 

Alexander the Gr8

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Hartnell played for Laviolette when with the Flyers and he began his career as a Predator, not to mention the Preds making it to the finals just all made sense for him to sign there.

He began his career under Trotz. We had a connection to Hartnell too. Instead we spent $1.5M on Brett Connolly.
 

Hivemind

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He began his career under Trotz. We had a connection to Hartnell too. Instead we spent $1.5M on Brett Connolly.

Hartnell was never a realistic option. There wasn't some magical connection between Hartsy and Trotz that he wanted to capitalize on. He wanted to back to a city/franchise he loved, and the fact they had a coach he liked only sweetened the pot. Choosing between Hartnell and Connolly is a false choice, because Hartnell was never coming to DC.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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I know a good deal about this subject. You don't get to either Jordan's level by just letting it happen whenever it happens. You learn the best ways to put yourself in that state. Every pro golfer at that level does it. Every one. Even after holes like Spieth's 13th. Some are better than others. And not every one has a savvy caddy like Geller, who reined Jordan in more than once that round.

And the point regarding luck remains that when bad things happen you can recover more readily because you have this reorienting, resetting skill. You are not at the mercy of chance in your own mind, whether or not it's true in reality, and that buffers your performance.

There are enough veteran players on this team that transferring that ability to the NHL should not be an issue anymore.



This is where leadership comes into play on a hockey team. Whether it's the captain, a coach, or just someone in the locker room. There needs to be a presence that does this same kind of job.

http://www.espn.com/golf/theopen17/...-conjures-memories-greats-just-compare-anyone

Even among his current peers, it's hard to insist he ranks above all of them. Rory McIlroy still owns one more major. Dustin Johnson is ranked higher. Other players hit the ball farther than Spieth. Higher. Straighter. (OK, much straighter.)
They don't, however, have what he has.
Call it the "it" factor. That certain something. An extra gear.
"Those are the intangibles and the things I just don't understand," his buddy Zach Johnson, who stuck around to watch the conclusion, said. "He does it all the time."
Therein lies the difference between Spieth and everyone else. He owns an innate ability to win at all costs.
 

g00n

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http://www.espn.com/golf/theopen17/...-conjures-memories-greats-just-compare-anyone

Even among his current peers, it's hard to insist he ranks above all of them. Rory McIlroy still owns one more major. Dustin Johnson is ranked higher. Other players hit the ball farther than Spieth. Higher. Straighter. (OK, much straighter.)
They don't, however, have what he has.
Call it the "it" factor. That certain something. An extra gear.
"Those are the intangibles and the things I just don't understand," his buddy Zach Johnson, who stuck around to watch the conclusion, said. "He does it all the time."
Therein lies the difference between Spieth and everyone else. He owns an innate ability to win at all costs.


It's the immediate aftermath of a great victory so hyperbole is natural. If we were to take what they say literally then Spieth would never lose and we know that's not true.

But he does seem to be able to tap into what we're talking about better than others in the field, more often than the field, which is what players like Nicklaus and Woods could do. That's how you win more than once on tour, especially majors.

In relation to hockey and the Caps, wherever Spieth stands in history this is all still relevant when describing the "it" factor we've been talking about. Like you said, he doesn't have the top stats on tour but he has the extra gear when it counts. Herb Brooks' assistant looked at the list of players planned for the 1980 Olympic team and noted several of the best college stars were missing. Brooks famously replied "I'm not looking for the best players, I'm looking for the RIGHT players".

In all things there is a balance and chemistry to teamwork that improves the whole. Some would have us believe these known dynamics of human interaction aren't real, but they're as concrete as any other function of the body. They simply involve one or more people instead of always taking place in a closed system (the body/mind).
 

RandyHolt

Keep truckin'
Nov 3, 2006
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I saw Spieth recover from the 3rd wheel almost falling off and I thought to myself, "wish the Caps had this kind of heart and mental toughness"....

I hadn't see a star major leader spraying the ball so badly in a while...amazing bounceback.

I found solace in seeing the best of the best missing the fairway consistently, but do wonder why they miss so often.

That was tough for his opponent to have to wait for 20 minutes. Spieth walking around in circles by the trailers, seemed to be stalling a bit. Work any angle you can on your opponent. You have to give him credit, it worked. That would have been the best stretch of golf to witness ever, had to hit that hole in one on that par 3.

You'd think our players would dominate at golf what with all the long summers.
 

g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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I found solace in seeing the best of the best missing the fairway consistently, but do wonder why they miss so often.

That was tough for his opponent to have to wait for 20 minutes. Spieth walking around in circles by the trailers, seemed to be stalling a bit. Work any angle you can on your opponent. You have to give him credit, it worked. That would have been the best stretch of golf to witness ever, had to hit that hole in one on that par 3.

You'd think our players would dominate at golf what with all the long summers.

We're straying a bit from the topic but it's kind of related and it's summer so meeeeeehhhh.

I don't think Spieth was trying to slow play Kuchar so much as he was trying to figure out what to do, and his caddy was getting control of him including talking him out of a 3W. Kuchar kept himself together and played well but Spieth just went nuclear with that -5 over the next 4 holes. That is clutch.

Regarding missing the fairway, it only takes a few degrees of deviation from square impact and square clubhead path at impact to send a drive of that distance offline enough to find the rough or worse. At clubhead speeds of 110mph or better it's very easy to mi**** it a bit. But most can recover. The real scoring factors are greens in regulation and then putting, of course.

If anyone has issues with this conversation we can move it to the OT thread, btw...
 
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