Post-Game Talk: A Swayman shut you out, Jets lose 3-0

[gojetsgo]

One of your go to arguments is that the jets outshot the other team so there's no reason to criticize

Its always a weak forum argument when someone starts generalizing - like I go after Scheif every chance I get... blah blah. You can check my posts this season - I was stoked that Scheif was back to his 200' game.

If you DON'T think something changed in that Montreal/Toronto weekend then I guess I'd suggest you're a bit naive. The team including Scheif was playing Bowness system to a tee before those losses... and now we are freewheeling... and losing.

Its a shame to get dragged into one poster sitting like a chicken hawk waiting... most of this forum is super enjoyable debate.

you said the wild trapped us, I pointed out we had 48 shots... unless you meant they trapped us in their zone...

rofl at you keep pushing this mtl theory... if you actually put any sort of thought into it you would see that it started before that "weekend" (tuesday thursday) and was more with the detroit loss and win vs buffalo where helle stood on his head.. but you just ignore the two games that happened first and immediately went to SoMeThInG MuSt HaVe HaPpEnEd In MtL WiTh PlD

if you don't like my posts then block me...

 

[Weezeric]

Turned this game off after the 2-0 goal, and was glad I did!

 

[surixon]

you said the wild trapped us, I pointed out we had 48 shots... unless you meant they trapped us in their zone...

rofl at you keep pushing this mtl theory... if you actually put any sort of thought into it you would see that it started before that "weekend" (tuesday thursday) and was more with the detroit loss and win vs buffalo where helle stood on his head.. but you just ignore the two games that happened first and immediately went to SoMeThInG MuSt HaVe HaPpEnEd In MtL WiTh PlD

if you don't like my posts then block me...

This whole nonsense that we aren't playing the system is such a cop out. We absolutely are still playing the systems we just aren't scoring so people look for low hanging fruit for things to blame. Our heat maps have looked largely the same all year.

 

[gojetsgo]

This whole nonsense that we aren't playing the system is such a cop out. We absolutely are still playing the systems we just aren't scoring so people look for low hanging fruit for things to blame. Our hear maps have looked largely the same all year.

I think our problem was far more likely that our offense dried up which led to more cheating offensively which cause some break downs but even with those break downs we were still far more structured then we were at any point last year, since the deadline we've been playing way better then we had the games before that and have only had like 2 bad games. I think that is far more likely then some random event happening between pld and the team causing us to play bad...

 

[surixon]

I think our problem was far more likely that our offense dried up which led to more cheating offensively which cause some break downs but even with those break downs we were still far more structured then we were at any point last year, since the deadline we've been playing way better then we had the games before that and have only had like 2 bad games. I think that is far more likely then some random event happening between pld and the team causing us to play bad...

Agree with this. Our players started pushing for offense when it dried up ans had to be reigned in a bit. Since then we are largely playing as we were earlier this year but we aren't finishing or getting as many saves so the results aren't there.

 

[WolfHouse]

This whole nonsense that we aren't playing the system is such a cop out. We absolutely are still playing the systems we just aren't scoring so people look for low hanging fruit for things to blame. Our hear maps have looked largely the same all year.

What heat maps are you looking at? In the first half of the season - we had dramatically reduced high danger chances now they are trending back up... the jets were scoring more in that first half because they were sticking to their roles - now this team falls apart at will...

The challenge now is that key forwards have stopped back checking, aside from Nino they are not crashing the net and we have lost a lot of our speedy forecheck.

Its easy to see the difference pre- and post Montreal/Toronto weekend... Im joking about PLD partying with the Cdns but this has been a different team since then.

Its not Bowness.

I think our problem was far more likely that our offense dried up which led to more cheating offensively which cause some break downs but even with those break downs we were still far more structured then we were at any point last year, since the deadline we've been playing way better then we had the games before that and have only had like 2 bad games. I think that is far more likely then some random event happening between pld and the team causing us to play bad...

This is actually the definition of not playing the system... you can't say 'we are still playing Bowness system but cheating a bit' haha

And yeah, better than Maurice and Lowry's non-system is nice but kind of moot.

 

[DRW204]

RE: Bowness on PLD:

What kind of injury does a player have that they, and not the coach or doctor, get to decide whether they want to play?

Crumbling backbone? Ailing enthusiasm? Disappearing gumption? Constipated competitiveness?

Whatever happened to a player being eager to get into the lineup and help their team?

(Yeah, I'm bitchy today. Deal with it.)

Concussions I'd think.

 

[WolfHouse]

Concussions I'd think.

Groin, back spasm, depression, long covid, Montrealaise...

 

[DRW204]

Groin, back spasm, depression, long covid, Montrealaise...

He's not sitting out bc of Montreal

 

[gojetsgo]

This is actually the definition of not playing the system... you can't say 'we are still playing Bowness system but cheating a bit' haha

And yeah, better than Maurice and Lowry's non-system is nice but kind of moot.

you 100% can play in a system but then cheat for offense at times, it's not like every play every game is us cheating for offense, for the most part we've been playing with structure

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Seems like the Jets are always down 2-0 1st period the last 8 weeks.

Then score effects come into play, our CF% goes up as the opponent goes more into a defensive mode. We are never really in the game but the stats on their own at the end of the game make it look like we were right there, actually deserved to win, or we just got goallied or some other nonsense.

 

[None]

RE: Bowness on PLD:

What kind of injury does a player have that they, and not the coach or doctor, get to decide whether they want to play?

Crumbling backbone? Ailing enthusiasm? Disappearing gumption? Constipated competitiveness?

Whatever happened to a player being eager to get into the lineup and help their team?

(Yeah, I'm bitchy today. Deal with it.)

An injury where it's pain management with little or no need to surgically repair it immediately is my guess. Cleared to play, but it'll probably hurt a lot during or afterwards.

The NHL has a somewhat troubled history of players playing through injuries on prescription painkillers.

 

[Potrzebie]

Good lord -- those numbers are absurd. So much for in-game adjustment.

Our inability to score on the PP has been killing us and is going to ensure a quick exit in the POs if we don't sort it out.

Missed this one. Did PP1 look like they were getting chances at least?

If I had to pick one to be going for POs I'd pick the PK (which outside of a couple of games has been really good). Once the POs start and the rule enforcement changes the penalties melt away and teams that live off the PP in the regular season tend to make an early exit.

 

[GNP]

The bottom line on all this is quite simple, in that the Jets defense did their job, by only allowing Boston, just 2 goals. Not bad considering their #1 in the NHL. In hockey reducing your opposition's scoring to 2 goals, usually gives you a great chance to win.

So, that leaves "scoring" and we don't seem to have it, even though we have great scorers like Scheifele, Connor and Morrissey, plus a couple of other guys.

The Jets have to to get their whole act together, especially the offence, and start scoring "consistently." I don't know what Bowness can do if these guys are nervous playing a team like Boston ? and maybe their grabbing their sticks too tight.

This PLD thing is starting to bother me, and seems to be a very big distraction for this hockey club, and the sooner they can deal him the better, as he just doesn't want to play here, and his teammates know it. It's a bad situation right now. I'm all for the guy playing, if he wants to play, and wants to be here, but with this PLD, I get a bad gut feeling, that he may be jerking the Club around. ( hope I'm wrong, as I have nothing to base my feeling on, other than a bad gut feel.)

 

[surixon]

What heat maps are you looking at? In the first half of the season - we had dramatically reduced high danger chances now they are trending back up... the jets were scoring more in that first half because they were sticking to their roles - now this team falls apart at will...

The challenge now is that key forwards have stopped back checking, aside from Nino they are not crashing the net and we have lost a lot of our speedy forecheck.

Its easy to see the difference pre- and post Montreal/Toronto weekend... Im joking about PLD partying with the Cdns but this has been a different team since then.

Its not Bowness.


This is actually the definition of not playing the system... you can't say 'we are still playing Bowness system but cheating a bit' haha

And yeah, better than Maurice and Lowry's non-system is nice but kind of moot.

This is quite incorrect. Prior to the Montreal game you like to bring up they had the following underlying metrics:

XGF/60 2.62 good enough for 18th in the league
XGA/60 2.62 good enough for 17th in the league
HDCA/50 11.32 which was good enough for 13th in the league.
HDCF/60 11.77 which was mid pack at 15th
We shot 8.8% good enough for 12th but had the fifth best save percentage with a 92.94%

After that Montreal game our metrics and rank for metrics is better:

XGF/60 2.87 (7th best)
XGA/60 2.78 (T19th)
HDCA/60 12.61 (10th best)
HDCF/60 13.59 (7th best)
S% 7.16 (3rd worst)
Sav% 91.17 (19th)

So in actuality we have stayed roughly the same in terms of the rest of the league in what we've given up but we have generated chances at a top 10 rate.

The biggest things that have changed is we are finishing at a bottom of thebleague rate and our goaltending has been below average.

It's really hard to win when you both can't convert and are also not getting good enough goaltending. The metrics seem to say that our performance at 5 on 5 has improved the back half of the year.

 

[roccerfeller]

I thought the jets played a good game. At no point did I feel they were handily outclassed.

I preferred this effort to the last game for sure.

Sweep Nashville and we’re in the playoffs I think

 

[Weezeric]

Here’s hoping the shooting luck turns around just in time for the first round.

 

[CorgisPer60]

What an absolute collapse if we blow this.

Have to beat Nashville.

If this happens, I'll be very interested in seeing what happens this off-season. Maybe then it'll force Cheveldayoff to make changes. He played his coaching gambit, and it hasn't worked.

 

[voyageur]

RE: Bowness on PLD:

What kind of injury does a player have that they, and not the coach or doctor, get to decide whether they want to play?

Crumbling backbone? Ailing enthusiasm? Disappearing gumption? Constipated competitiveness?

Whatever happened to a player being eager to get into the lineup and help their team?

(Yeah, I'm bitchy today. Deal with it.)

The word is concussion. And you can milk that one for awhile. But honestly if it is a serious one, those aren't all that fun to play through.

Meanwhile the Dubois to Montreal rumours are still hot, and it seems inevitable that he is out the door.

Kind of reminds me of Laine, when he got the slash vs. the Flames and couldn't play, but he is on his tablet, hands working no problem.

It does feel a bit like the team is combusting. Such a strange season.

 

[WolfHouse]

This is quite incorrect. Prior to the Montreal game you like to bring up they had the following underlying metrics:

XGF/60 2.62 good enough for 18th in the league
XGA/60 2.62 good enough for 17th in the league
HDCA/50 11.32 which was good enough for 13th in the league.
HDCF/60 11.77 which was mid pack at 15th
We shot 8.8% good enough for 12th but had the fifth best save percentage with a 92.94%

After that Montreal game our metrics and rank for metrics is better:

XGF/60 2.87 (7th best)
XGA/60 2.78 (T19th)
HDCA/60 12.61 (10th best)
HDCF/60 13.59 (7th best)
S% 7.16 (3rd worst)
Sav% 91.17 (19th)

So in actuality we have stayed roughly the same in terms of the rest of the league in what we've given up but we have generated chances at a top 10 rate.

The biggest things that have changed is we are finishing at a bottom of thebleague rate and our goaltending has been below average.

It's really hard to win when you both can't convert and are also not getting good enough goaltending. The metrics seem to say that our performance at 5 on 5 has improved the back half of the year.

This just drags us back into the 'metrically' we should have won the vegas series or edmonton should have won ours...

Ive gotta go but helle hasnt changed - our high danger chances have changed... we locked down teams and even if we were outshot you felt like we had a real chance to win... the jets are simply not doing that anymore

Ill never argue that pp1 isnt a massive problem... but lets use last night as an example - boston score in the first minute, then we cant convert on lopsided PP oppprtunities and they get up 2-0

Of course our metrics look good because boston is sitting back - because both teams know the jets are content to be a perimeter team - metrics gets you a participation ribbon...

Yay we beat teams coming off back to backs... Our record since montreal is like 9-18... leading up to that game we were 18-9 and very solid before that

Helle has not fallen off a cliff... bowness hasnt changed his coachinf style... the jets are not losing because of bad luck... they are just not executing. Teams dont slump for 30 games a season. Something happened.

Or maybe this team has always just been a .500 team talentwise - to me thats a worse thought than a locker room issue

 

[Jets 31]

If this happens, I'll be very interested in seeing what happens this off-season. Maybe then it'll force Cheveldayoff to make changes. He played his coaching gambit, and it hasn't worked.

While i like Chevy if we miss the playoffs it's time for a GM change, he's now on his 4th coach so that card is gone.

 

[SensibleGuy]

Not the result I requested. Who do I complain to?!

 

[blueandgoldguy]

The offense has struggled for most of the second half of the season even when we were pretty healthy for about a month. It's probably time to admit the talent level on this team isn't as good as we think.

 

[Jets 31]

it looked better had chances and maintained zone time which is why pp1 got so much of the time as there was no point in changing when we had control of the puck in their zone

I agree with you but having Wheeler out on our#1 PP AND the most PP time is a very bad judgement call from Bowness. Wheeler can pass the puck ok sometimes but he doesn't have a shot that's going to score.

 

[surixon]

This just drags us back into the 'metrically' we should have won the vegas series or edmonton should have won ours...

Ive gotta go but helle hasnt changed - our high danger chances have changed... we locked down teams and even if we were outshot you felt like we had a real chance to win... the jets are simply not doing that anymore

Ill never argue that pp1 isnt a massive problem... but lets use last night as an example - boston score in the first minute, then we cant convert on lopsided PP oppprtunities and they get up 2-0

Of course our metrics look good because boston is sitting back - because both teams know the jets are content to be a perimeter team - metrics gets you a participation ribbon...

Yay we beat teams coming off back to backs... Our record since montreal is like 9-18... leading up to that game we were 18-9 and very solid before that

Helle has not fallen off a cliff... bowness hasnt changed his coachinf style... the jets are not losing because of bad luck... they are just not executing. Teams dont slump for 30 games a season. Something happened.

Or maybe this team has always just been a .500 team talentwise - to me thats a worse thought than a locker room issue

Yes sometimes teams can cough Florida cough the first part of the year where they couldn't finish despite being a top metric team.

I think your just seeing more high dangerous chances because they are resulting in more goals then they where early in the year. Do you remember grade A chances that were saved from months ago because I certainly don't.

I also don't think we generate our chances correctly for this collection of top 6 players but they still generate enough to atleast maintain the average finish they had the first half.