A SERIOUS DISCUSSION: Alex Nedeljkovic

[Bunch of Jurcos]

I guess I can understand why some people aren't completely sold on Ned. I am confused as to what more you could have asked from him so far? We've had bad goaltending for so long I thought our board would be more optimistic about his future. Are you guys worried he's going to fall of like Hart or a much lesser extent Bennington? What more do you want?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I guess I can understand why some people aren't completely sold on Ned. I am confused as to what more you could have asked from him so far. We've had bad goaltending for so long I thought our board would be more optimistic about his future. Are you guys worried he's going to fall of like Hart or a much lesser extent Bennington? What more do you want?

Bennington is having a bear of a time right now.

 

[GoldiFox]

If his height/size is a problem, or going to be I sure can't tell. He looks good, and his numbers back that up. I guess we'll know when/if his performance and stats decline, or at least I'm sure that will be consistently listed as a cause.

Ned has height/size problems. Some goalies have rebound problems. Some goalies have puck handling problems. Some goalies have 5-hole problems.

I think it is fair to be more skeptical of a smaller goalie because he can't fix his size whereas a bigger goalie could potentially fix any mechanical issues (which often ends up in the situation of "a boat's a boat, but a mystery box could be anything"). But its also fair to say that if Ned is high-end in many areas that big goalies struggle with then his size becomes more of a ceiling problem then a floor problem. And his floor looks pretty high. Needs another 100 starts though.

 

[zman77]

Ned's record speaks for itself.
He was a Star in the OHL and AHL.
Not every NHL Goalie needs to be 6'6" for good results.

 

[LakeLivin]

Ned has height/size problems. Some goalies have rebound problems. Some goalies have puck handling problems. Some goalies have 5-hole problems.

I think it is fair to be more skeptical of a smaller goalie because he can't fix his size whereas a bigger goalie could potentially fix any mechanical issues (which often ends up in the situation of "a boat's a boat, but a mystery box could be anything"). But its also fair to say that if Ned is high-end in many areas that big goalies struggle with then his size becomes more of a ceiling problem then a floor problem. And his floor looks pretty high. Needs another 100 starts though.

This. Not exactly sure why, but I often find it frustrating when people base a conclusion / decision on only one factor of something that clearly is affected by several.

 

[geehaad]

There is one and only one problem with goaltenders: they let the puck go into the net. Arturs Irbe didn't have a height issue because he didn't let the puck go into the net. You can do all sorts mental and analytic gymnastics, but at the end of the day, all that matters is how many of those pucks end up in his net.

Ned's height mattered only in the prognostication of how well he'd keep pucks out of his net. Now that he's here, keeping pucks out of his net, talk of his height is as worthless as a warm bucket of hamster vomit.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I just realized.... Ned could actually be in the discussion for Calder if he keeps thus up and can get some more starts

 

[Derailed75]

This same dumb argument gets made with QB's in the NFL. Everyone gets infatuated with strong arm tall QB's. Anyone below the certain height they decide can't be good. They seem to forget Brady ain't huge and his arm is no rocket and Drew Brees was one of the shorter QB's in the league. They are the 2 best of the last almost 2 decades and you can't even argue it

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

This same dumb argument gets made with QB's in the NFL. Everyone gets infatuated with strong arm tall QB's. Anyone below the certain height they decide can't be good. They seem to forget Brady ain't huge and his arm is no rocket and Drew Brees was one of the shorter QB's in the league. They are the 2 best of the last almost 2 decades and you can't even argue it

Tom Brady is 6'4" tall and while his arm isn't a "rocket", he's had one of the quickest releases in the league.

Not disagreeing with your overall point though.

 

[Derailed75]

Also Ned is a full 2 feet taller than the crossbar not sure why he needs to be any bigger not like he can't reach it

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'm not sure how accurate NHL listed heights are, but Ned is listed as 6'0 189 lbs. Ward, Mrazek and Quick are only 6'1"

I think Ned's measurement is probably accurate because the official 2014 draft combine measurements had him at 5'11.75", 190 lbs.

 

[RibFrabcus]

Also Ned is a full 2 feet taller than the crossbar not sure why he needs to be any bigger not like he can't reach it

Now that's the kind of analytics I can get behind.

 

[RibFrabcus]

Food for thought. We play better defense with Ned in net. Although we are good regardless of goaltender. both goalies see little from the slot. Riemer sees a bit more netfront action than normal, although maybe it's a function of his rebound control? Hard to say.

 

[Lempo]

If he were an inch or two taller, he'd probably have been a first round pick.

If he was a little bit taller, if he was a baller...

 

[Joe McGrath]

This same dumb argument gets made with QB's in the NFL. Everyone gets infatuated with strong arm tall QB's. Anyone below the certain height they decide can't be good. They seem to forget Brady ain't huge and his arm is no rocket and Drew Brees was one of the shorter QB's in the league. They are the 2 best of the last almost 2 decades and you can't even argue it

That’s every sport though in the prospect phase. It’s the measurables that you can’t teach. And Kyler Murray still went #1 overall so it’s not like a be all end all. There’s an exception to every rule. If all other things are equal I’m taking the guy who is 6’6” with a rocket for an arm.

Ned could be an exception to the rule. Doesn’t mean that someone was wrong for questioning whether his size might be a limitation. It easily could’ve been and it could still be as NHL shooters get used to him. He is going to give up goals bigger goalies wouldn’t have. His challenge is to make up for those by making saves with his athleticism and aggressiveness and using his puck handling, etc. If at the end of the day he gives up 2.5 goals per game or somewhere in that general range he’s doing his job.

Thats why the X goalie should have made this save by doing XYZ conversations drive me nuts. Goalies have unique styles and most of them have a weakness, unless they are superstars. When Mrazek gives up a back door goal and he’s on the complete wrong side of the play it’s a WTF moment, but his style is over aggressive. That’s how he makes a bunch of saves he has no business making. Sometimes the other team makes a great play to exploit it.

 

[geehaad]

Charles Barkley was one of the best rebounders in the NBA in the 80s, when the league was chock full of 7-foot centers, even going so far as to lead the league in his third year.

Charles Barkley is 6'4".

 

[LakeLivin]

Also Ned is a full 2 feet taller than the crossbar not sure why he needs to be any bigger not like he can't reach it

Especially if he jumps!

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If he was a little bit taller, if he was a baller...

If he was taller, then he might not be a baller.

 

[The Faulker 27]

Ned has height/size problems. Some goalies have rebound problems. Some goalies have puck handling problems. Some goalies have 5-hole problems.

I think it is fair to be more skeptical of a smaller goalie because he can't fix his size whereas a bigger goalie could potentially fix any mechanical issues (which often ends up in the situation of "a boat's a boat, but a mystery box could be anything"). But its also fair to say that if Ned is high-end in many areas that big goalies struggle with then his size becomes more of a ceiling problem then a floor problem. And his floor looks pretty high. Needs another 100 starts though.

@geehaad explained it well. Saying that his height might be an issue is one thing. Saying that it is, is currently inaccurate. I agree with you though, he needs more starts before a determination can be made.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I feel like the Hurricanes are eventually going to be a team with lots of physical anomalies that don't fit a specific profile for whatever reason that end up panning out in some shape or form. That's how contending teams often find good players in the mid-rounds of the draft. It's why I would keep a very close eye on both Pashin and Fensore.

 

[The Faulker 27]

I just hope Ned makes it so we get to debate his size for a decade.

 

[hblueridgegal]

His enthusiasm and confidence level seems more in line with the team’s best style of play right now than Reimer’s. Who has looked angst ridden and tense.

 

[The Faulker 27]

I love his tenacity, but if Ned gets concussed by penguin sliding to center ice like he did last night I'm taking back everything nice I said about him.

 

[LakeLivin]

That’s every sport though in the prospect phase. It’s the measurables that you can’t teach. And Kyler Murray still went #1 overall so it’s not like a be all end all. There’s an exception to every rule. If all other things are equal I’m taking the guy who is 6’6” with a rocket for an arm.

Ned could be an exception to the rule. Doesn’t mean that someone was wrong for questioning whether his size might be a limitation. It easily could’ve been and it could still be as NHL shooters get used to him. He is going to give up goals bigger goalies wouldn’t have. His challenge is to make up for those by making saves with his athleticism and aggressiveness and using his puck handling, etc. If at the end of the day he gives up 2.5 goals per game or somewhere in that general range he’s doing his job.

Thats why the X goalie should have made this save by doing XYZ conversations drive me nuts. Goalies have unique styles and most of them have a weakness, unless they are superstars. When Mrazek gives up a back door goal and he’s on the complete wrong side of the play it’s a WTF moment, but his style is over aggressive. That’s how he makes a bunch of saves he has no business making. Sometimes the other team makes a great play to exploit it.

Yep, size is a legitimate factor. The challenge is keeping that factor appropriately balanced against all the other factors. Too often people key in on the one without considering the rest. I remember arguments against smaller skaters because they're going to lose puck battles. Often true, but that needs to be weighed against the times a smaller quicker player gets to the puck first, avoiding a puck battle in the first place.

Anyone remember "we don't want Marner, he's too small"?

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Say what you will about Ned, he's a funny dude