Post-Game Talk: A new way to lose, Jets lose in OT 3-2

[nobody imp0rtant]

I know he has literally been our only offensive threat, but 55's game just pissed me off so much last night. Having a letter alone should at the very least help drive you to go hard in both directions...or at least that's the way it used to work in my days!

You could very easily make the case that he was not only our best player last night, but was also our worst. Oates must have been proud of him for playing a prominent role in all 5 goals scored in that game.

Yep, the only reason he didn't get "credit" for the OT goal is he sensed what might happen and managed to amble his way off the ice before the red light came on. I'm sure the cognoscenti snicker and smirk over their macchiatos every time +/- is mentioned but when one player is so much worse than everyone else on the team, it has to be reflective of his play. ScheifMe's theme song should be "I'm minus sixteen going on seventeen".

Get rid of this guy stat, and I might turn off the tank engine and wish better luck for those who remain. But I've reached the point where I can't cheer for a team that 55 is part of. There are others that have that effect, but not anywhere to the same extent.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Apologize to any relatives that may read this, but Adam Brooks is not an NHL player.

Say whaaaat?!!!

 

[Howard Chuck]

You are making the all too common mistake of thinking that when changing or removing a variable all else will remain the same. If Scheif and Wheeler don't play, a completely different game is played. Those who take their place make completely different on ice choices. The differences emerge from the first non-appearance of S&W and compound from there. There is no way to know the outcome of the game that would have been played in their absence.

See our winning streak with both of them out or on the 3rd line earlier in the year, for reference.

 

[antiqueslivers]

my apathy beard is glorious

 

[LowLefty]

I am looking for a reason for it not excusing it, there is a difference.

OK - but if the reason isn't really valid, it sounds like an excuse.

 

[surixon]

OK - but if the reason isn't really valid, it sounds like an excuse.

At the end of the day we both agree that he hasn't been good enough just like a good many on the team.

 

[Duke749]

OK - but if the reason isn't really valid, it sounds like an excuse.

I mean everything is an “excuse” if “you”(or whoever else is arguing the point) don’t agree with the logic or reasoning. It’s why discussing with someone that just defaults to the “excuse” argument is so tedious.

 

[LowLefty]

I mean everything is an “excuse” if “you”(or whoever else is arguing the point) don’t agree with the logic or reasoning. It’s why discussing with someone that just defaults to the “excuse” argument is so tedious.

I agree -
That is why in some cases, we just call it out without the excuses.
The excuses (reasons) only seem to come into play when we want to support the player rather than simply calling out the issues.
It might be tedious to debate but it makes it very clear on whether a fan is in support of a player (regardless of the issues) or not.

 

[Duke749]

I agree -
That is why in some cases, we just call it out without the excuses.
The excuses (reasons) only seem to come into play when we want to support the player rather than simply calling out the issues.
It might be tedious to debate but it makes it very clear on whether a fan is in support of a player (regardless of the issues) or not.

And you’re saying the reasons(excuses) for bad play to benefit your point of view. It’s not about supporting or not supporting a player. It’s about supporting your own view. That’s when it becomes tedious.

 

[Ducky10]

Pionk has had a rough year, but we’ve seen better from him. I don’t think he’s suddenly fallen off a cliff as a hockey player. That’s the context around discussing him, not preferring him as a player and making excuses for him. He hasn’t been good enough but odds are he bounces back, because he’s set that standard before and it’s obvious the skill is still there.

 

[gojetsgo]

I may be wrong but I think pionk was better when paired with samberg and I think dillon was better when with schmidt, both just don't seem to really work together

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I wouldn’t just say old boys club…..often also a huge language problem no doubt

Sometimes, certainly, but many Europeans speak English very well. English is used as the common tongue, what used to be called the lingua franca. I guess that term is a little out of date now.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I would imagine a good many of them speak very good english, especially if they are from Sweden, Switzerland, or Finland.

Not sure about Finland. Wasn't the professor assumed to be a Finn?

 

[LowLefty]

Pionk has had a rough year, but we’ve seen better from him. I don’t think he’s suddenly fallen off a cliff as a hockey player. That’s the context around discussing him, not preferring him as a player and making excuses for him. He hasn’t been good enough but odds are he bounces back, because he’s set that standard before and it’s obvious the skill is still there.

Hopefully he comes around -
I thought LY he played well - but it was also a contract year and that may have been the major motivator - I hope he can rekindle his game and play like he did when the money was on the line.
I don't think he should be struggling based on new expectations, responsibilities or pressure that might come with the new contract - that was pretty much my only point.

LY he had a huge swing in how he played in his end - it was like watching a different player.
I don't see much of that now -
I don't get on him for making mistakes - all players are guilty of that.
What I don't like is less effort defending compared to LY - he's still wants to play offense but I see less of a desire to play defense.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He's bad defensively. He's bad on the PP. He occasionally makes a nice offensive play at ES but that's it. I'd like to see your counterargument for how he's worth building around.

How about the 2 seasons prior to this one?
Maybe Dillon, who you like so much, is dragging him down.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If we bench Wheeler and Schief, we score 0 tonight. Tough to win that way.

A little late to do that now - and I don't think that is the way it works.

You don't bench players for the effect on 1 game. You do it for the effect on all of the rest of the games - and on all of the players.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Our topography locally seems somehow different. Can't quite put a finger on it....

Easy. You need to throw the snow up a mountain not push it down one.

 

[cbcwpg]

I know it was in, but it would be nice to actually see video evidence during the broadcast.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think I'm just coming to the realization that this team simply isn't good enough.

I think we have too many complimentary players, and not enough guys with the mental fortitude to execute when the pressure is on.

We shoot ourselves in the foot so many times by not doing things like quick accurate passes, retrieving passes cleanly, or clearing the puck under pressure.

I mean ffs Connor almost lost the puck again like he did in the last loss. Trying to get up the ice before he had the payload secured. You'd think he would have been extra careful after that mistake.

As much as Schiefele has been producing offensively we again see another highlight on the Gurianov goal where they score and then you see 55 glide through the camera view a second later.

Yup - therefore big change is required, however painful it might be.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This is becoming very apparent that Scheif and wheeler have a significant amount of influence as to roster decisions

Maybe, or maybe new coach, same as old coach, likes them together.

Edit: Bring in a coach from outside and see what happens before arriving at a conclusion like that.

 

[Ducky10]

Hopefully he comes around -
I thought LY he played well - but it was also a contract year and that may have been the major motivator - I hope he can rekindle his game and play like he did when the money was on the line.
I don't think he should be struggling based on new expectations, responsibilities or pressure that might come with the new contract - that was pretty much my only point.

LY he had a huge swing in how he played in his end - it was like watching a different player.
I don't see much of that now -
I don't get on him for making mistakes - all players are guilty of that.
What I don't like is less effort defending compared to LY - he's still wants to play offense but I see less of a desire to play defense.

I didn’t say he should be struggling based on expectations. Less effort on playing defense is perception to me, I don’t think effort is an issue with Pionk. He’s tasked to be an offensive provider, obvious not at the expense of defense but he and Dillon just haven’t meshed very well together imo. Dillon has been a let down to me for the most part, I thought he’d bring more snarl to the backend and create some more space.
I don’t think it’s a matter of hope with Pionk, it’s a matter of when. He’s a good player and could probably benefit from a new coach defining his role a bit better. He looks to me like he’s struggling with that to a degree. The team offense vs defense really isn’t a thing to me.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

When I saw the Jets get outworked and out hit by the Ducks and Sharks (neither who are power houses) to start the season I knew it would be a long one, Jets players never bought in early on!

Time for a rebuild with new GM and coaching staff. Chevy's leash way too long!

I'm not ready to give up on Chevy yet, but agree with the rest - and Chevy is now on a short leash for me.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

3+ years the Jets have been less than the sum of their parts.

Currently
20th in GF - so offense is actually a weakness
19th in GA - so even a Vexina calibre goalie cant save this keystone cop defense (thanks Huddy)
-6 goal differential
20th in points%
13th PP
26th in PK

Kyle Connor is 6th in Goals scored and 12th in points but is a minus player (only minus player in the top 25 - although surprisingly the next minus is Marchand)

Our 2 #1 C's sit 22nd and 34th in points. In terms of +/- Lowry is our best C at 51st overall among NHL Centres.

+/- is sure getting quoted around here a lot lately.
Good player, bad team = bad +/-. Surprise!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Wheeler and Scheif on the same line have been very hot lately. Why would you separate that? I’m all for splitting them up, but if they’re playing well, why change that? Not to mention our depth is nonexistent right now.

Because the idea is that they are NOT playing well, just scoring well but net negative.

Maybe spreading them out helps our depth.

 

[Heldig]

+/- is sure getting quoted around here a lot lately.
Good player, bad team = bad +/-. Surprise!

Yes I know it is not a super important stat. It has some merit though.