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Value of: A 2nd line center to Montreal.

Habs Halifax said:
I rather only trade Hage until after he turns pro. Could be making a big mistake!

I like Barzal but we need a physical 2 way center who can play D, play physical, and has some offense.
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I don’t think Barzal is the right fit. But I’d prefer trade someone unproven that has value for someone who is already proven and the age of this current core. Who knows how long it’ll take Hage. Even if it’s when he’s 23, that’s 4 years away. And unfortunately for the Habs, Newhook and the rest don’t have any value to other teams
 
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Stewie Griffin said:
It would have to be Fowler. No one is trading a top-6 C for Montembeault or Dobes.
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Fowler has higher potential than Dobes or Montembeault but even he is not what I would consider a "blue chip goaltender prospect" at this point.

Fowler has some very good tools as a goalie and HAS played amazingly well for BC, and to start his AHL career. But I don't think Fowler has proven enough yet against pros to have the kind of value that a top goalie prospect can have.

If we see Fowler continue to thrive next year in the AHL throughout the season and in the playoffs, then Fowler will begin to make more of a case for himself to be held in the same kind of regard as guys like Askarov or Cossa, and Wolf before he firmly established himself in Calgary this season.

But right now Fowler is still largely unproven against pros, and needs the reps to "show his stuff" and establish himself before teams will be ready to give back good value in a trade for him.

It just is the reality of the position of goalie. The top guys and blue-chip prospects have incredibly-high value but aren't getting traded anytime soon, and the more "middling" prospects don't have much value overall.

Fowler is a good prospect and has value right now. But given that he is still unproven, he would only be a secondary, or even tertiary add to a package for a 2C.

And that would be no-bueno on the Canadiens' part considering Fowler is the best goalie prospect in the pipeline.

It is what it is.
 
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the moveable pieces for the 2C =

1 of our firsts (#16 or #17 for now) + Dach + prospect (Roy/Mailloux), get the best defensive 2C you can for that package

you telling me that NYI wouldn't accept that for Horvat at 8.5M?
 
FedorTyutin said:
Just in order to turn all the stones, did we discuss of the possibility of trading Montembeault, Dobeš or Fowler? Do fans of other teams see value in those goalies, and if so, does one of them in a package entice you to trade one of your top-6 centers?
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Monty and Dobes aren't going anywhere, Fowler is gonna be playing 1-2 years in the AHL minimum (and is pretty much untouchable as far as prospects go for us), Primeau's contract is up this year

it's always possible that they decide to sign Primeau (he's been amazing in the AHL this season but hasn't played close to Dobes' level in the NHL) and move Dobes but that's very unlikely
 
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TT1 said:
the moveable pieces for the 2C =

1 of our firsts (#16 or #17 for now) + Dach + prospect (Roy/Mailloux), get the best defensive 2C you can for that package

you telling me that NYI wouldn't accept that for Horvat at 8.5M?
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Since Lou seems to want to win short term, I'd say no, indeed.

EDIT : Value is not an objective measure. It is also based on the circumstances. The value is the price set between the seller and the buyer. The value mentionned up here might be all fine for a rebuilding team. But a GM who evaluates his team can compete soon will say the value is not high enough.
 
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TT1 said:
the moveable pieces for the 2C =

1 of our firsts (#16 or #17 for now) + Dach + prospect (Roy/Mailloux), get the best defensive 2C you can for that package

you telling me that NYI wouldn't accept that for Horvat at 8.5M?
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Only over and over but, nobody expected you'll have read all 550+ posts
 
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FedorTyutin said:
Since Lou seems to want to win short term, I'd say no, indeed.

EDIT : Value is not an objective measure. It is also based on the circumstances. The value is the price set between the seller and the buyer. The value mentionned up here might be all fine for a rebuilding team. But a GM who evaluates his team can compete soon will say the value is not high enough.
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If I'm the Islanders owner, I'd fire Lou

Any GM thriving to remain as a bubble team needs to get fired
 
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TT1 said:
the moveable pieces for the 2C =

1 of our firsts (#16 or #17 for now) + Dach + prospect (Roy/Mailloux), get the best defensive 2C you can for that package

you telling me that NYI wouldn't accept that for Horvat at 8.5M?
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I'd give up both our 1st rd picks + Dach + Roy for the right 2nd line C. Horvat's contract and age is a no go from the start. Barzel would be in the perfect age range. There's a few 27 and under you could get at the right price.
 
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ole ole said:
I'd give up both our 1st rd picks + Dach + Roy for the right 2nd line C. Horvat's contract and age is a no go from the start. Barzel would be in the perfect age range. There's a few 27 and under you could get at the right price.
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For Barzal, absolutely. I would give up 1st + Hage + Dach + Roy.
 
miscs75 said:
Both are B tier center prospects. Not getting into semantics that Hage now is better than Raty now. If that’s not a good comparison what would you claim is the present day equivalent in Habs land to 1st/Raty/Beauvillier?
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Raty is a C tier C prospect. 1st, Beck for Horvat + 3rd would be the equivalent. Beck has been a better prospect for 3 years now and since Habs aren't sending a cap dump, Isles would have to add a late pick, prob 3rd or 4th

Comparing Hage to Raty is downright laughable. "Semantics" :laugh:
 
miscs75 said:
So you think 2025 1st/Hage or Mailloux/Dach (or another one of those cap dumps) would really get it done for Barzal or Horvat and make sense for the Islanders? This is what i'm getting at. Making a trade for a 2C will need to include a quality young roster player (who isn't a walking IR spot), quality prospect and a 1st.
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Why are you using Horvat and Barzal interchangeably? They have vastly different values.
 
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HabsMD97 said:
Raty is a C tier C prospect. 1st, Beck for Horvat + 3rd would be the equivalent. Beck has been a better prospect for 3 years now and since Habs aren't sending a cap dump, Isles would have to add a late pick, prob 3rd or 4th

Comparing Hage to Raty is downright laughable. "Semantics" :laugh:
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Now I'm not holding up Raty as a top prospect or anything but just looking at the numbers both him and Beck are 2nd round picks with about the same NHL/AHL contribution at the same age, at the time Raty was traded.
 
Kevin Musto said:
better than Gretzky

cope harder
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What tremendous cope!
images.jpeg
 
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RandV said:
Now I'm not holding up Raty as a top prospect or anything but just looking at the numbers both him and Beck are 2nd round picks with about the same NHL/AHL contribution at the same age, at the time Raty was traded.
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Beck was the 33rd pick, Ratu was 52nd
At 20, in their rookie season in the AHL:
Raty: 54gp-9g-18a-27pts
Beck: 62gp-14g-27a-41pts

The poster I was responding to ignorantly said that Hage and Raty were the same tier of prospects. Considering Hage is a MUCH better prospect than Beck and Beck himself is a better prospect than Raty, it was a dumb comment. If Hage is a B tier prospect, Raty is a C tier prospect.
 
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