Post-Game Talk: #9 - 10/27/19 | bruins @ RANGERS

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I understand what the reasoning is and what the precedent is that the refs operate under, however if that first goal is a legitimate goal in their minds then in my opinion they're operating under a flawed thought process.

The whole spirit of the rule is to not allow goals when the goalie is unable to perform his duties and stop a shot as a result of contact. It shouldn't matter if the defender trips the player into him. A play like this should be no goal and also no penalty on Pastrnak. Call a penalty on Hajek for tripping on the play.

Allowing a team to legally score a goal after a player on the opposing team trucks him, even if that player was steered into the goalie but the defender, just doesn't seem right. Why even have the rule if a play like this is a goal.

It just seems like a ridiculously flawed system if a play like that is a goal. The goalie gets slammed into and the only reason the puck is able to be put into the net is because the contact the goalie experienced took him out of position. It shouldn't be okay because the player was tripped into the goalie even if it was an egregious cross check or something like that. It should be a penalty on the defender but also no goal because the whole spirit of the rule is to not count goals where the goalie is unable to do his job. Whether his teammate initiated the contact that forced him to be unable to do his job should be irrelevant. No goal and a penalty on the defender should be the call in that scenario - not a good goal. It just seems so antithetical to the whole purpose of the rule.

Not for nothing but the marquee event that was a catalyst for goalie interference reviews being introduced was the Dwight King/Lundqvist incident from the 2014 SCF. It was a high profile event on the games biggest stage where the goalie was bowled over and a goal was scored while he was unable to make the save. That incident was they key incident that put it over the top and made the NHL introduce the GI review. However, under these current precedence that the refs are making their decisions based on I would bet that play would be called a good goal because McDonagh was shoving King towards Lundqvist. Even though King made no effort to avoid Hank and flopped on top of him, the refs in 2019 would probably say it was McD's fault and it would've been a good goal. That's not right.

 

[offdacrossbar]

boston is a have

we are a have-not.

any questions ?

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I understand what the reasoning is and what the precedent refs operate under, however if that first goal is a legitimate goal in their minds then in my opinion they're operating under a flawed thought process.

The whole spirit of the rule is to not allow goals when the goalie is unable to perform his duties and stop a shot as a result of contact. It shouldn't matter if the defender trips the player into him. A play like this should be no goal and also no penalty on Pastrnak. Call a penalty on Hajek for tripping on the play.

Allowing a team to legally score a goal after a player on the opposing team trucks him, even if that player was steered into the goalie but the defender, just doesn't seem right. Why even have the rule if a play like this is a goal.

It just seems like a ridiculously flawed system if a play like that is a goal. The goalie gets slammed into and the only reason the puck is able to be put into the net is because the contact the goalie experienced took him out of position. It shouldn't be okay because the player was tripped into the goalie even if it was an egregious cross check or something like that. It should be a penalty on the defender but also no goal because the whole spirit of the rule is to not count goals where the goalie is unable to do his job. Whether his teammate initiated the contact that forced him to be unable to do his job should be irrelevant. No goal and a penalty on the defender should be the call in that scenario - not a good goal. It just seems so antithetical to the whole purpose of the rule.

Not for nothing but the marquee event that was a catalyst for goalie interference reviews being introduced was the Dwight King/Lundqvist incident from the 2014 SCF. It was a high profile event on the games biggest stage where the goalie was bowled over and a goal was scored while he was unable to make the save. That incident was they key incident that put it over the top and made the NHL introduce the GI review. However, under these current precedence that the refs are making their decisions based on I would bet that play would be called a good goal because McDonagh was shoving King towards Lundqvist. Even though King made no effort to avoid Hank and flopped on top of him, the refs in 2019 would probably say it was McD's fault and it would've been a good goal. That's not right.

The player doesn't need to make " a reasonable attempt to avoid contact" if he was flying in the air after being tripped. Lundqvist could've tried to stop the play by doing his veteran remove the mask instead of losing his f***ing shit.

He's a mortal for the first time in his chiseled face life, and he was being a bit of a bitch.

 

[bleedblue94]

I don’t disagree that you need to play hard to win.

At some point though you have to wonder why the message isn’t getting through to the team.

This isn’t college, players aren’t dumb. They’ll tune you out if you treat them that way.

Again just my take (as someone who likes Quinn and wanted him hired)

I just don't understand the constant rush on this board to give all the players (except staal and whoever else the current whipping boy is) the benefit of the doubt in this organization on everything while acting like the organization is always in the wrong. I swear most people on here would want the inmates to just run the asylum. When was it that a coach just stopped coaching mid game yesterday ago and just let the players run their own lines and special teams bc he was making a point to them?

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I just don't understand the constant rush on this board to give all the players (except staal and whoever else the current whipping boy is) the benefit of the doubt in this organization on everything while acting like the organization is always in the wrong. I swear most people on here would want the inmates to just run the asylum. When was it that a coach just stopped coaching mid game yesterday ago and just let the players run their own lines and special teams bc he was making a point to them?

The boogeyman is always an answer for cognitive dissonance particularity in a situation where there is an illusion of control as in being a fan.

 

[Machinehead]

I mean Chytil is in the minors, probably should have been last year and that's why he is there but who else has gone backwards? Hajek and Kakko are in their first season, Anderson hasnt played a full season, and Howden is improving. Kravtsov wasnt ready. They are all still kids, have some patience.

Everyone you mentioned hasn't developed an inch since they got here.

Andersson is the same player he was the day we drafted him.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

the benefit of the doubt in this organization on everything while acting like the organization is always in the wrong.

I mean, @Machinehead just mentioned this, but there’s been a significant amount of roster turnover and it seems like the end result is the same with different players

So at some point it has to land at the feet of the organization

 

[aufheben]

Quinn could say hockey is played on ice and you guys would take issue with it.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Quinn could say hockey is played on ice and you guys would take issue with it.

bad ice.

but its still ice.

 

[Machinehead]

I just noticed it tonight but there's a clear pattern of prospects not in our possession flourishing and guys stagnating when they come here. Look at Kravtsov. Analysts couldn't get enough of this guy after his season in the KHL. Comes into our system and doesn't last four games.

The whole Kravtsov thing reeks of a kid wanting to play his game and us yelling at him about "compete harder" or whatever. Our development is suffering because we're developing characters, not hockey players.

Our coaches at both the NHL and AHL levels valuing these things is no accident. The first word of Gorton's mouth any time he describes the rebuild is "character."

You know how you develop character? By having a good system for playing to buy into and earning their trust but getting the most out of each unique skill-set. Not by screaming at them to skate harder while they're getting beat.

Brett Howden is a young player in this league. Instead of being rewarded for breaking a sweat while he chases after the guy who just embarrassed him, he should be learning to play in a way that he's controlling the game instead of chasing it.

Kakko has all the ability in the world and looks like he has absolutely no confidence because instead of teaching him how to play at this level, we're asking him to do nebulous "hustle" things.

Ditto Kravtsov.

It's not that competing hard isn't important but if it's not harnessed, if it's not within a system, if it's not a means to an end, it's meaningless. They're babies. They'll learn how to be professionals. Right now, our job is to get the most out of their games. Quinn, based on his comments tonight, seems to have no interest in that.

Developing character first and ability second is how we're going to end up with a team of Manny Malhotra's and Ryan Strome's.

 

[Inferno]

Quinn could say hockey is played on ice and you guys would take issue with it.

I don't think anything could sum up my thoughts better than this.


Well played sir....well played.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Anyone report anything more regarding Zibanejad?

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Everyone you mentioned hasn't developed an inch since they got here.

Andersson is the same player he was the day we drafted him.

Yeah I know. Kakko hasn't improved at all in his 9 games in the NHL. Bust.

 

[Inferno]

Kravtsov did not look like an NHL player in traverse City. He did not look like an NHL player in the preseason... And he didnt do anything at Hartford.

He's not an NHL player yet. Playing for any organization would be the same.

You can't dangle your way through 5 guys every shift.

 

[Leetch3]

The whole “out working the other team despite not having talent” schtick works in college, not the NHL

but thats not at all what he's saying...he's saying that it doesn't matter how much skill you have if you don't work hard. has nothing to do with playing without talent. its about everyone in the NHL has talent and no one on this team is so super talented that they can succeed without working hard.

I know that people seem to think 'hard work' and 'toughness' means 4th line goons but thats a total bs narrative. ALL of the top players in the league work hard and play tough (ie take a hit to make a play)

 

[wintersej]

I just noticed it tonight but there's a clear pattern of prospects not in our possession flourishing and guys stagnating when they come here. Look at Kravtsov. Analysts couldn't get enough of this guy after his season in the KHL. Comes into our system and doesn't last four games.

The whole Kravtsov thing reeks of a kid wanting to play his game and us yelling at him about "compete harder" or whatever. Our development is suffering because we're developing characters, not hockey players.

Our coaches at both the NHL and AHL levels valuing these things is no accident. The first word of Gorton's mouth any time he describes the rebuild is "character."

You know how you develop character? By having a good system for playing to buy into and earning their trust but getting the most out of each unique skill-set. Not by screaming at them to skate harder while they're getting beat.

Brett Howden is a young player in this league. Instead of being rewarded for breaking a sweat while he chases after the guy who just embarrassed him, he should be learning to play in a way that he's controlling the game instead of chasing it.

Kakko has all the ability in the world and looks like he has absolutely no confidence because instead of teaching him how to play at this level, we're asking him to do nebulous "hustle" things.

Ditto Kravtsov.

It's not that competing hard isn't important but if it's not harnessed, if it's not within a system, if it's not a means to an end, it's meaningless. They're babies. They'll learn how to be professionals. Right now, our job is to get the most out of their games. Quinn, based on his comments tonight, seems to have no interest in that.

Developing character first and ability second is how we're going to end up with a team of Manny Malhotra's and Ryan Strome's.

Usually agree with a lot of your posts but the Bruins are also a character first club and will ship out talent that doesn’t buy in. Really good talent! Often. Seems to work for them.

 

[RangerLifer]

Anyone report anything more regarding Zibanejad?

Rick Carpiniello's twitter: Quinn said it’s not a head injury with Zibanejad.

 

[Tob]

We have an opportunity on Tuesday to not be an embarrassment but a national embarrassment.

 

[haveandare]

Everyone you mentioned hasn't developed an inch since they got here.

Andersson is the same player he was the day we drafted him.

Andersson is very clearly faster, stronger on the boards and a better passer than he was imo.

I also seriously doubt Hajek was ready for the NHL when we got him.

We can be impatient and even disappointed without being over the top about it.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I've always been a big believer in reps and breaking something down at the most basic level.

Same thing when experience is referenced. When it's brought up, it doesn't mean anything unless a specific example and application to a situation is provided.

What I'm getting at with Quinn is he can say all these things, but it's up to him instead of yelling at these guys like an HS Home Room teacher to sit down with them individually and break down the good, bad, and ugly. If he's not doing the later, he's not the right man for this role.

Ans skills can be developed. You need to isolate things someone is good or needs work on and do it over and over to improve.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I just noticed it tonight but there's a clear pattern of prospects not in our possession flourishing and guys stagnating when they come here. Look at Kravtsov. Analysts couldn't get enough of this guy after his season in the KHL. Comes into our system and doesn't last four games.

The whole Kravtsov thing reeks of a kid wanting to play his game and us yelling at him about "compete harder" or whatever. Our development is suffering because we're developing characters, not hockey players.

Our coaches at both the NHL and AHL levels valuing these things is no accident. The first word of Gorton's mouth any time he describes the rebuild is "character."

You know how you develop character? By having a good system for playing to buy into and earning their trust but getting the most out of each unique skill-set. Not by screaming at them to skate harder while they're getting beat.

Brett Howden is a young player in this league. Instead of being rewarded for breaking a sweat while he chases after the guy who just embarrassed him, he should be learning to play in a way that he's controlling the game instead of chasing it.

Kakko has all the ability in the world and looks like he has absolutely no confidence because instead of teaching him how to play at this level, we're asking him to do nebulous "hustle" things.

Ditto Kravtsov.

It's not that competing hard isn't important but if it's not harnessed, if it's not within a system, if it's not a means to an end, it's meaningless. They're babies. They'll learn how to be professionals. Right now, our job is to get the most out of their games. Quinn, based on his comments tonight, seems to have no interest in that.

Developing character first and ability second is how we're going to end up with a team of Manny Malhotra's and Ryan Strome's.

I must admit you make some valid points. I am not a fan of Quinn at all.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

The player doesn't need to make " a reasonable attempt to avoid contact" if he was flying in the air after being tripped. Lundqvist could've tried to stop the play by doing his veteran remove the mask instead of losing his ****ing ****.

He's a mortal for the first time in his chiseled face life, and he was being a bit of a *****.

Not sure how his reaction after the goal has anything to do with him getting run over, unless you're saying that him falling back into the net was him being a bitch. If you're saying that then I just disagree with you, that was clearly him being knocked back by Pastrnak's momentum directly into his head and shoulder causing him to fall back with no embellishment or anything.

And I mean the first sentence in your post above is kind of missing my point a little bit. I'm saying in a situation like this the player attempting to make a reasonable attempt to avoid the goalie shouldn't even matter. If he is thrown into the goalie as a result of a foul from a defender then it should be no goal and a penalty on the defender, not a good goal because of the foul committed by the defender which is how they call it now.

I just think the whole spirit of the rule is that the goalie should always be afforded the opportunity to try and stop the puck and calling a play like this or similar type situations where a player makes contact with the goalie as a result of a defender fouling them, calling plays like this good goals seems incongruous with the entire purpose of the rule in my opinion.

 

[Machinehead]

Kravtsov did not look like an NHL player in traverse City. He did not look like an NHL player in the preseason... And he didnt do anything at Hartford.

He's not an NHL player yet. Playing for any organization would be the same.

You can't dangle your way through 5 guys every shift.

Yes you can.

 

[Machinehead]

Andersson is very clearly faster, stronger on the boards and a better passer than he was imo.

I also seriously doubt Hajek was ready for the NHL when we got him.

We can be impatient and even disappointed without being over the top about it.

Yeah, Andersson is faster and he's been rewarded with a 4th line role because he's still not doing whatever the "non-negotiable" things are.

 

[Machinehead]

Usually agree with a lot of your posts but the Bruins are also a character first club and will ship out talent that doesn’t buy in. Really good talent! Often. Seems to work for them.

Did they put Bergeron on the 4th line when he was 20 because he didn't run after guys hard enough?