GDT: #79 | Islanders at Flyers | Saturday, April 12, 2025 | 12:30 PM | NBCSP

[tymed]

Since being traded:
Pelletier - 2.15 P/60
Frost - 1.23 P/60
Farabee - 0.88 P/60

Pelletier has produced more points per 60 minutes since the trade than Frost and Farabee combined - Trying to chop that up only really highlights how pathetic it is, Pelletier doesn't even sniff the PP.

Frost has a single ES point in 24 games since the 4 Nations tournament.

 

[iceman42]

Sad thing we haven’t hit rock bottom yet.

That's when we select McQueen, he plays 1/2 a season and then his back gives out.

 

[Philly Fanatik]

Wasn’t Torts trying to make Foerster a bump and grinder ?

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Since being traded:
Pelletier - 2.15 P/60
Frost - 1.23 P/60
Farabee - 0.88 P/60

Pelletier has produced more points per 60 minutes since the trade than Frost and Farabee combined - Trying to chop that up only really highlights how pathetic it is, Pelletier doesn't even sniff the PP.

Frost has a single ES point in 24 games since the 4 Nations tournament.

Jesus the small sample size strikes again. What were the pts/60 before the trade? Does the fact that Calgary's offense is in fact the worst in the league not matter to you? Do you actually think Pelletier is a better player? Are we really gonna evaluate the impact 3 different players have in a 30 game sample and ignore the fact that Frost and Farabee have played 3 more seasons worth of games than Pelletier at the same age? Just what exactly are you trying to prove?

Edit:what about the 6 or so games Pelletier missed playing under John? Wonder what his pts/60 would look like

 

[trostol]

What about the fact they could have had Pelt for free

 

[tymed]

Jesus the small sample size strikes again. What were the pts/60 before the trade? Does the fact that Calgary's offense is in fact the worst in the league not matter to you? Do you actually think Pelletier is a better player? Are we really gonna evaluate the impact 3 different players have in a 30 game sample and ignore the fact that Frost and Farabee have played 3 more seasons worth of games than Pelletier at the same age? Just what exactly are you trying to prove?

It's the post-trade sample size, that's all there is to go on post-trade. 1/3 season isn't insignificant either. We really don't need to continue to make excuses for these guys, they're not Flyers. I'm pretty sure it wasn't until sometime in December that Frost managed to finally break away from like Hathaway, Seeler, etc (aka bottom of the barrel) in ES points/game.

This isn't an endorsement of Pelletier, but a criticism of who went the other way, and it's well earned.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Since being traded:
Pelletier - 2.15 P/60
Frost - 1.23 P/60
Farabee - 0.88 P/60

Pelletier has produced more points per 60 minutes since the trade than Frost and Farabee combined - Trying to chop that up only really highlights how pathetic it is, Pelletier doesn't even sniff the PP.

Frost has a single ES point in 24 games since the 4 Nations tournament.

I think Joel/Morgan are a couple of eggs in a carton at this point.

Sure seems like a trend for the Flyers drafting these kind of guys though doesn’t it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

At 9th overall we can get the future 3C to play behind future 2C Jett.

This gives me the butt-sweats

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's the post-trade sample size, that's all there is to go on post-trade. 1/3 season isn't insignificant either. We really don't need to continue to make excuses for these guys, they're not Flyers. I'm pretty sure it wasn't until sometime in December that Frost managed to finally break away from like Hathaway, Seeler, etc (aka bottom of the barrel) in ES points/game.

This isn't an endorsement of Pelletier, but a criticism of who went the other way, and it's well earned.

When will people learn not to do this

 

[trostol]

When will people learn not to do this

It's things like that..fans..media that are making it hard to stay a fan

 

[CerpinTaxt]

It's the post-trade sample size, that's all there is to go on post-trade. 1/3 season isn't insignificant either. We really don't need to continue to make excuses for these guys, they're not Flyers. I'm pretty sure it wasn't until sometime in December that Frost managed to finally break away from like Hathaway, Seeler, etc (aka bottom of the barrel) in ES points/game.

This isn't an endorsement of Pelletier, but a criticism of who went the other way, and it's well earned.

How is 1/3 of a season a significant amount of time to properly evaluate any player? What about all the other stuff you're ignoring? Calgary sucks at putting pucks in the net, that's going to affect any players stats. Pelletier didn't play a full 6 or so games under John, during which the Flyers also sucked at scoring, do you sing a different tune if his pts/60 is affected by this? What about the fact that pelletier is 1 year younger then Frost and Farabee, and only has 1 seasons worth of games played? Perhaps he's getting more play now, cause this org values the shit that doesn't translate to winning games ie grit, trying hard, culture. Pelletier is a smaller slightly more skilled Vandevelde. Meanwhile Frost is on pace scoring wise same rate he's produced the past 3 years, while being above average defensively. Farabee is having a down year, is still only 25, and is way more valuable a player than Pelletier.

Anyway you slice this you're just wrong. We get it you didn't like those players, but pelletier is not outplaying them badly.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

I think Joel/Morgan are a couple of eggs in a carton at this point.

Sure seems like a trend for the Flyers drafting these kind of guys though doesn’t it.

You're right but they aren't cracked eggs. They are fine complimentary players. If you expect more from them then you're delusional

 

[renberg]

Bright spot is Ersson. He faced a lot of shots and did well. Slammed the door in the SO. He is a competent NHL goalie when not being buried by his HC. We saw this when he tended in the Four Nations. He can play.
The damage done to this organization by Tortorella will take seasons to overcome. He’s crushed some players and ruined others. As we can see since he was canned, there is more on this roster than he brought out of it.
Additionally, as far as I’m concerned, Shaw needs to go along with Rockhead. They’re all in the Tortorella trick sack. The club needs a totally new coaching staff next year.

 

[FlyerNutter]

You're right but they aren't cracked eggs. They are fine complimentary players. If you expect more from them then you're delusional

Ohh i don’t expect more from them at all.

The Philadelphia Flyers seem to continuously expect more from such players however.

That POS that is Cam York is another.

 

[tymed]

How is 1/3 of a season a significant amount of time to properly evaluate any player? What about all the other stuff you're ignoring? Calgary sucks at putting pucks in the net, that's going to affect any players stats. Pelletier didn't play a full 6 or so games under John, during which the Flyers also sucked at scoring, do you sing a different tune if his pts/60 is affected by this? What about the fact that pelletier is 1 year younger then Frost and Farabee, and only has 1 seasons worth of games played? Perhaps he's getting more play now, cause this org values the shit that doesn't translate to winning games ie grit, trying hard, culture. Pelletier is a smaller slightly more skilled Vandevelde. Meanwhile Frost is on pace scoring wise same rate he's produced the past 3 years, while being above average defensively. Farabee is having a down year, is still only 25, and is way more valuable a player than Pelletier.

Anyway you slice this you're just wrong. We get it you didn't like those players, but pelletier is not outplaying them badly.

I said it's not insignifcant, which does imply something less than significant still. Again though, this is the only apples to apples data we have to go on concerning the topic, you're fully aware of that. There's no way of comparing their past seasons without diluting the context to incoherency, similar to the points you're failing to make but let's look at them anyways.

You're hung up on the Calgary scoring issues, lets use what we have of that then. I don't have the data at hand for PP time and don't think Pelletier has had much if any to bother, so I'll use ES scoring. I don't dislike Frost or Farabee, and I left out the ES case just so Frost didn't look so ridiculous, but sure then. Consider that Frost probably has played more ES ice as well, and with much better linemates all year.

24/25 ES scoring in Calgary:
Pelletier - 0.46 ESP/G over 24gp.
Frost - 0.10 ESP/G over 29gp.

24/25 ES scoring combined Flyers/Flames:
Pelletier - 0.41 ESP/G over 46gp.
Frost - 0.27 ESP/G over 78gp.

Add your entirely hypothetical 6 games in and it still doesn't change the outcome of the statement. Frost is also 2 years older than Pelletier, not 1. He has also not scored at the same rate this year as the past 2 years. Essentially nothing you've said is even true, your arguments are null, and the numbers are in favor of Pelletier outproducing Frost in both Philly and Calgary this season, is what it is my guy. In fact, anyways you slice it, it's you who is wrong. So now we've addressed your concerns, yet the case for Frost in 24/25 is still a very very sad one, so at least for Pelletier the bars been set near ice level.

 

[trostol]

Still could have had him for free..hence bad asset management

 

[CerpinTaxt]

I said it's not insignifcant, which does imply something less than significant still. Again though, this is the only apples to apples data we have to go on concerning the topic, you're fully aware of that. There's no way of comparing their past seasons without diluting the context to incoherency, similar to the points you're failing to make but let's look at them anyways.

You're hung up on the Calgary scoring issues, lets use what we have of that then. I don't have the data at hand for PP time and don't think Pelletier has had much if any to bother, so I'll use ES scoring. I don't dislike Frost or Farabee, and I left out the ES case just so Frost didn't look so ridiculous, but sure then. Consider that Frost probably has played more ES ice as well, and with much better linemates all year.

24/25 ES scoring in Calgary:
Pelletier - 0.46 ESP/G over 24gp.
Frost - 0.10 ESP/G over 29gp.

24/25 ES scoring combined Flyers/Flames:
Pelletier - 0.41 ESP/G over 46gp.
Frost - 0.27 ESP/G over 78gp.

Add your entirely hypothetical 6 games in and it still doesn't change the outcome of the statement. Frost is also 2 years older than Pelletier, not 1. He has also not scored at the same rate this year as the past 2 years. Essentially nothing you've said is even true, your arguments are null, and the numbers are in favor of Pelletier outproducing Frost in both Philly and Calgary this season, is what it is my guy. In fact, anyways you slice it, it's you who is wrong. So now we've addressed your concerns, yet the case for Frost in 24/25 is still a very very sad one, so at least for Pelletier the bars been set near ice level.

Okay my dude I guess you ignore enough facts you can make any argument. Frost is a 40+ pt player over 82 games with above average defense. Pelletier has 1 full season of games under his belt and only 29 pts. You say to ignore the games he missed under John but Magua already pointed out that Pelletier only scored 3 in the 16 John was coaching. So he's had 5 pts in the 6 games not being coached by an offensive degenerate (btw team has score 29 goals in the 6 games Shaw has coached, 10 goals in the 6 games preceding Johns firing). You're arguing small sample sizes and trying to make definitive evaluations of players.

Frost and Farabee now, subpar seasons withstanding, are better players than Pelletier. Pelletier right now is Scott Laughton but a winger. Let's come back to this in 2 years, heck let's see how things go next season and if Pelletier can continue or elevate his play then maybe we can start arguing his comparison to Frost and Farabee. Right now you're an exercise in futility.

 

[tymed]

Still could have had him for free..hence bad asset management

Okay my dude I guess you ignore enough facts you can make any argument. Frost is a 40+ pt player over 82 games with above average defense. Pelletier has 1 full season of games under his belt and only 29 pts. You say to ignore the games he missed under John but Magua already pointed out that Pelletier only scored 3 in the 16 John was coaching. So he's had 5 pts in the 6 games not being coached by an offensive degenerate (btw team has score 29 goals in the 6 games Shaw has coached, 10 goals in the 6 games preceding Johns firing). You're arguing small sample sizes and trying to make definitive evaluations of players.

Frost and Farabee now, subpar seasons withstanding, are better players than Pelletier. Pelletier right now is Scott Laughton but a winger. Let's come back to this in 2 years, heck let's see how things go next season and if Pelletier can continue or elevate his play then maybe we can start arguing his comparison to Frost and Farabee. Right now you're an exercise in futility.

The entire back-and-forth has been you just ignoring facts and arguing with assertions of what-if, while wondering why I'm not trying to measure for you things that can't be measured, yet you continue to say it's the opposite, so go ahead and actually say something with some quantification. I still haven't once said that Pelletier is better than Frost or Farabee, just that he's outproduced them in direct measurement of ES production this year, on both teams.

The assertions about Torts-coached games and such is only just conjecture. We came out of an absolute gauntlet of top-tier teams where we were decimated, and into a end stretch-run of entirely winnable games, so there's some more conjecture about that same assertion. I'm sure there's plenty more to be said for either side if we're just making speculations, but it's just you speaking in that way, not me.

There's actually no argument left about who produced better at ES this year, it's already happened and that's the only point I've made here, and in focus. No one said it was going to be the same case in the future or not, either. Definitely futile.

 

[tymed]

Still could have had him for free..hence bad asset management

That's a fair presumption. I'm never really sure about the rules between teams when it comes to claiming other teams young players but there often appears to be some degrees of etiquettes unbeknownst to fans, etc. so it's tough to say for certain.

Farabee holding a 5mill/3 yrs remaining contract in hand...

Frost being a C that hasn't been able to solidify 2C play with any degree of essential consistency. What was his extension going to be looking like? I have no idea, what are the comparable contracts?

I think we were better off moving along from the players/contracts.... I'm not sure how you price that out in trade assets but considering the best player in the deal, being Morgan Frost, is looking like a 3C, how much of an impact does any of this have? We all know the Flyers are going big game hunting at some point for a real top 6 C, it's better to save the money for that if that's the plan. Pelletier looks like he could maybe carve out a useful and cheap spot, at least.

I always really liked these guys. I always like every single player on our team because they're Flyers. I'm happy for Frost to get a new shot at his career, but his time was up for claiming that spot. The bottom line on Frost for me though is that we need 2 better centers than him, end of story. We're stuck with Coots, too.

Farabee a real nice player too and I hope/expect him to bounce back but with the serious injury he took and multi year contract left, with upcoming plans for cap space.... ya, he was also going.

 

[Rebels57]

I think Joel/Morgan are a couple of eggs in a carton at this point.

Sure seems like a trend for the Flyers drafting these kind of guys though doesn’t it.

Torts ruined both. Especially Joel. Dude shaved his head like Private Pyle after he was psychologically tortured by Drill Srgt. Hartman.

 

[tymed]

I'm not convinced yet that Frost is ruined. I'd take 5 to 10 pounds off him and see if he can regain some of the quickness he's lost to the task of gaining weight to protect himself after bring so easily pushed around in the early parts of his 20s. Coming on 26, I think he can maintain enough functional strength for that while shedding some weight that's maybe preventing him from playing as much of a finesse game as he needs to, the type of finesse game he used to play as a prospect. Hes still a really nice, smooth, and shifty skater but he has no ability to separate in small space once he's decelerated. Once he's stopped, he can fend off checkers decently but not step away very well.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Torts ruined both. Especially Joel. Dude shaved his head like Private Pyle after he was psychologically tortured by Drill Srgt. Hartman.

Hah enjoy that reference.

Joel was always such a weird case to me.

He gave me Gagne - lite vibes early on in his career. They seemingly tried to turn him into a grinder, and net front guy. The neck injury aside I had no idea who I was watching as his career went on.

Foerster is a recent example of a something similar. To me at least.

 

[Rebels57]

I'm not convinced yet that Frost is ruined. I'd take 5 to 10 pounds off him and see if he can regain some of the quickness he's lost to the task of gaining weight to protect himself after bring so easily pushed around in the early parts of his 20s. Coming on 26, I think he can maintain enough functional strength for that while shedding some weight that's maybe preventing him from playing as much of a finesse game as he needs to, the type of finesse game he used to play as a prospect. Hes still a really nice, smooth, and shifty skater but he has no ability to separate in small space once he's decelerated. Once he's stopped, he can fend off checkers decently but not step away very well.

Acceleration and Pace have prevented him from being a PPG player.

 

[BernieParent]

On the positive side, we won't have to watch the Flyers FO intentionally not draft a highly skilled player for a 215-foot meh one to fit a role. It will just happen organically now.

 

[Sombastate]

On the positive side, we won't have to watch the Flyers FO intentionally not draft a highly skilled player for a 215-foot meh one to fit a role. It will just happen organically now.

If you thought what we surrounded Giroux with was bad, wait until you see Michkov with 11 dudes who have good grip strength