GDT: #79 | Islanders at Flyers | Saturday, April 12, 2025 | 12:30 PM | NBCSP

[Rebels57]

If you thought what we surrounded Giroux with was bad, wait until you see Michkov with 11 dudes who have good grip strength

Dont threaten me with a good time

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

What are the draft odds as they currently stand? Praying for a loss in 6 hours or w/e

 

[VladDrag]

I said it's not insignifcant, which does imply something less than significant still. Again though, this is the only apples to apples data we have to go on concerning the topic, you're fully aware of that. There's no way of comparing their past seasons without diluting the context to incoherency, similar to the points you're failing to make but let's look at them anyways.

You're hung up on the Calgary scoring issues, lets use what we have of that then. I don't have the data at hand for PP time and don't think Pelletier has had much if any to bother, so I'll use ES scoring. I don't dislike Frost or Farabee, and I left out the ES case just so Frost didn't look so ridiculous, but sure then. Consider that Frost probably has played more ES ice as well, and with much better linemates all year.

24/25 ES scoring in Calgary:
Pelletier - 0.46 ESP/G over 24gp.
Frost - 0.10 ESP/G over 29gp.

24/25 ES scoring combined Flyers/Flames:
Pelletier - 0.41 ESP/G over 46gp.
Frost - 0.27 ESP/G over 78gp.

Add your entirely hypothetical 6 games in and it still doesn't change the outcome of the statement. Frost is also 2 years older than Pelletier, not 1. He has also not scored at the same rate this year as the past 2 years. Essentially nothing you've said is even true, your arguments are null, and the numbers are in favor of Pelletier outproducing Frost in both Philly and Calgary this season, is what it is my guy. In fact, anyways you slice it, it's you who is wrong. So now we've addressed your concerns, yet the case for Frost in 24/25 is still a very very sad one, so at least for Pelletier the bars been set near ice level.

Since the trade, Pelletier is shooting at 15% while Frost is shooting at ~6%. Pelletier's on-ice shooting% is ~10%, while Frost's is ~5%.

Pelletier is getting points on ~90% of the goals scored at 5v5 while he's on the ice. His career average prior to the trade was 60%... Frost is only getting points on 30% on all goals scored. His career average prior to the trade is 70%. For reference, The best offensive players in the league hover around 80%.

If you think it makes sense to use a 22 game sample where Pelletier's underlying stats present him as a top offensive player in the NHL is a good evaluation - go nuts.

 

[KapG]

Since the trade, Pelletier is shooting at 15% while Frost is shooting at ~6%. Pelletier's on-ice shooting% is ~10%, while Frost's is ~5%.

Pelletier is getting points on ~90% of the goals scored at 5v5 while he's on the ice. His career average prior to the trade was 60%... Frost is only getting points on 30% on all goals scored. His career average prior to the trade is 70%. For reference, The best offensive players in the league hover around 80%.

If you think it makes sense to use a 22 game sample where Pelletier's underlying stats present him as a top offensive player in the NHL is a good evaluation - go nuts.

Yo be fair to Pelletier he was never really given a fair crack in Calgary and had some injury issues early in his development iirc. Kid has some game in him. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he turns into a decent 3rd line guy

 

[VladDrag]

Yo be fair to Pelletier he was never really given a fair crack in Calgary and had some injury issues early in his development iirc. Kid has some game in him. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he turns into a decent 3rd line guy

I have nothing against Pelletier at all. All I am saying is that his underlying metrics are not aligned with his current scoring totals. But that’s to be expected in a small sample size.

 

[mr4tno]

Very depressing being a Flyers phan. They can't even lose right, as they go into their normal year-end winning streak when the games do not matter and when they face 2nd-level goaltending. The fact that they can't win in "crunch" time and only seem to excell when the pressure is off, speaks volumes to a very mentally weak team. This is on the the core players. They have gotten rid of some of them, but Couturier ad TK need to go. Those two will never win a SC on a team where they are required to be the go to guys on a nightly basis, especially now that they have been paid.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Very depressing being a Flyers phan. They can't even lose right, as they go into their normal year-end winning streak when the games do not matter and when they face 2nd-level goaltending. The fact that they can't win in "crunch" time and only seem to excell when the pressure is off, speaks volumes to a very mentally weak team. This is on the the core players. They have gotten rid of some of them, but Couturier ad TK need to go. Those two will never win a SC on a team where they are required to be the go to guys on a nightly basis, especially now that they have been paid.

I mean if you want to argue that TK and Couturier need to go I don't think id use "mentally weak" as the argument. How are they supposed to pull this slop to any kind of success anyway? You're argument would hold more merit if the team was actually good, but they aren't.

 

[tymed]

Since the trade, Pelletier is shooting at 15% while Frost is shooting at ~6%. Pelletier's on-ice shooting% is ~10%, while Frost's is ~5%.

Pelletier is getting points on ~90% of the goals scored at 5v5 while he's on the ice. His career average prior to the trade was 60%... Frost is only getting points on 30% on all goals scored. His career average prior to the trade is 70%. For reference, The best offensive players in the league hover around 80%.

If you think it makes sense to use a 22 game sample where Pelletier's underlying stats present him as a top offensive player in the NHL is a good evaluation - go nuts.

Show me the part where I made any such claim. I didn't. Didn't endorse Pelletier once, I have roasted Frost though, because his actual production has been garbage. I never made any claims as to why, but simply that it is. Your explanations of why his production in the discussed timeframe is trash, does nothing to change that fact.

I've stated very clearly that I was referencing post-trade....and went on to use the entire post-trade sample size that exists. It's really not my problem that you can't grasp that but if you'd like to continue refuting claims that were never made - go nuts.

 

[Beef Invictus]

That's a fair presumption. I'm never really sure about the rules between teams when it comes to claiming other teams young players but there often appears to be some degrees of etiquettes unbeknownst to fans, etc. so it's tough to say for certain.

Farabee holding a 5mill/3 yrs remaining contract in hand...

Frost being a C that hasn't been able to solidify 2C play with any degree of essential consistency. What was his extension going to be looking like? I have no idea, what are the comparable contracts?

I think we were better off moving along from the players/contracts.... I'm not sure how you price that out in trade assets but considering the best player in the deal, being Morgan Frost, is looking like a 3C, how much of an impact does any of this have? We all know the Flyers are going big game hunting at some point for a real top 6 C, it's better to save the money for that if that's the plan. Pelletier looks like he could maybe carve out a useful and cheap spot, at least.

I always really liked these guys. I always like every single player on our team because they're Flyers. I'm happy for Frost to get a new shot at his career, but his time was up for claiming that spot. The bottom line on Frost for me though is that we need 2 better centers than him, end of story. We're stuck with Coots, too.

Farabee a real nice player too and I hope/expect him to bounce back but with the serious injury he took and multi year contract left, with upcoming plans for cap space.... ya, he was also going.

The only thing that matters is that the Flyers think they are in Year 2 of a 3 Year Retool and that they will be contending after that. They think they're moving towards that.

These moves where they shed talent for nothing or downgrades reflect how they think they're going to bring about contention, and that's what matters. That is a 19 alarm fire.

 

[tymed]

The only thing that matters is that the Flyers think they are in Year 2 of a 3 Year Retool and that they will be contending after that. They think they're moving towards that.

These moves where they shed talent for nothing or downgrades reflect how they think they're going to bring about contention, and that's what matters. That is a 19 alarm fire.

Ya, I agree that our management's plan isn't what it could or should be, but what we want them to do doesn't change what they're actually going to do. Crying about the way your favorite hockey team is managed doesn't change the way it's managed, it just reinforces your misery.

I really hope y'all don't treat your personal realities the same way you treat your fanship. You choose to be Flyers fans, and you get Flyers bullshit in return. We know through the history of the franchise what it likely continues to result in. Try to go with it, because you cannot change it.

 

[VladDrag]

Show me the part where I made any such claim. I didn't. Didn't endorse Pelletier once, I have roasted Frost though, because his actual production has been garbage. I never made any claims as to why, but simply that it is. Your explanations of why his production in the discussed timeframe is trash, does nothing to change that fact.

Two can play this game...Check it out....

Show me the part where I said you made any such claim. I didn't. I didn't say you endorsed Pelletier once.

What I was insinuating was that your position, which for clarity is posted below, lacks any real depth.

Pretty sad how badly Pelletier is outperforming Frost and Farabee

This post is the one to which I'm referring.

I've stated very clearly that I was referencing post-trade....and went on to use the entire post-trade sample size that exists. It's really not my problem that you can't grasp that but if you'd like to continue refuting claims that were never made - go nuts.

I know you were using post-trade stats. I specifically said 22-game sample, which is how many games Pelletier has played with the Flyers. In fact, my first three words in the post you quoted were, " Since the trade," which means I was also referring to their post-trade sample. It's not really my problem that you can't grasp that.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Show me the part where I made any such claim. I didn't. Didn't endorse Pelletier once, I have roasted Frost though, because his actual production has been garbage. I never made any claims as to why, but simply that it is. Your explanations of why his production in the discussed timeframe is trash, does nothing to change that fact.

I've stated very clearly that I was referencing post-trade....and went on to use the entire post-trade sample size that exists. It's really not my problem that you can't grasp that but if you'd like to continue refuting claims that were never made - go nuts.

What is garbage about a 40pt center who plays good defense?

 

[tymed]

What is garbage about a 40pt center who plays good defense?

It's well enough gentlemen. I'm just happy that his continued disappointment relative to expectations isn't our burden to bear anymore. I expected a lot more out of Frost than to be a 40pt centreman, but if he's on par with your expectations then that was a good call by you, and a bad call on my part with misplaced faith. I couldn't help but feel entertained at this point by his 35pt season here, floated by the powerplay while turning 26. In my opinion, that's trash, but clearly that's just an opinion I guess. I'll just leave at that for myself.

 

[freakydallas13]

It's well enough gentlemen. I'm just happy that his continued disappointment relative to expectations isn't our burden to bear anymore. I expected a lot more out of Frost than to be a 40pt centreman, but if he's on par with your expectations then that was a good call by you, and a bad call on my part with misplaced faith. I couldn't help but feel entertained at this point by his 35pt season here, floated by the powerplay while turning 26. In my opinion, that's trash, but clearly that's just an opinion I guess. I'll just leave at that for myself.

I'm more concerned with Tippet's trash production for the next 7 years at 6.2 million per than I am Frost who isn't on the team any longer and isn't signed to a boat anchor of a contract.

 

[tymed]

I'm more concerned with Tippet's trash production for the next 7 years at 6.2 million per than I am Frost who isn't on the team any longer and isn't signed to a boat anchor of a contract.

It's a pretty concerning contract indeed. Especially curious was the timing of signing him while injured at the end of his first career high point. He hasn't found that momentum again.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

It's well enough gentlemen. I'm just happy that his continued disappointment relative to expectations isn't our burden to bear anymore. I expected a lot more out of Frost than to be a 40pt centreman, but if he's on par with your expectations then that was a good call by you, and a bad call on my part with misplaced faith. I couldn't help but feel entertained at this point by his 35pt season here, floated by the powerplay while turning 26. In my opinion, that's trash, but clearly that's just an opinion I guess. I'll just leave at that for myself.

But what were your expectations for a 27th overall pick? And also what's the pointless PP over ES argument doing here? PP points count just the same and a woeful powerplay is one of the many reasons the Flyers have sucked the past 5 years.

Back to the expectations thing here though what did you expect from a 27th overall? For this argument I looked at 27th overall picks from 2017-1997 and only 8 of those players you could consider noteworthy. So right off the bat in that 20 year sample it was less then 50/50 to get an nhl player. John Carlson is the best of the bunch with Scott gomez probably in 2nd. After that you have David Perron and Kyle Palmieri. Vladislav Namestikov next and then I'd put Morgan Frost in terms of order. Then you have probably stay at home D in in Jeff Schultz and Ben Clymer the only thing I considered noteworthy was that each played over 400 games. Even the vaunted 2003 draft only produced Jeff Tambellini

So given that picking 27th means you most likely miss, and also the players who do hit are mostly complimentary (only one 1D and I guess Gomez could have been considered a 1C for awhile) Morgan Frost is a good pick given where he was taken. Not a great pick, perhaps maybe he can be he's only 26, but he's a good pick. So whatever expectations you had/have of him are unrealistic.

 

[tymed]

But what were your expectations for a 27th overall pick? And also what's the pointless PP over ES argument doing here? PP points count just the same and a woeful powerplay is one of the many reasons the Flyers have sucked the past 5 years.

Back to the expectations thing here though what did you expect from a 27th overall? For this argument I looked at 27th overall picks from 2017-1997 and only 8 of those players you could consider noteworthy. So right off the bat in that 20 year sample it was less then 50/50 to get an nhl player. John Carlson is the best of the bunch with Scott gomez probably in 2nd. After that you have David Perron and Kyle Palmieri. Vladislav Namestikov next and then I'd put Morgan Frost in terms of order. Then you have probably stay at home D in in Jeff Schultz and Ben Clymer the only thing I considered noteworthy was that each played over 400 games. Even the vaunted 2003 draft only produced Jeff Tambellini

So given that picking 27th means you most likely miss, and also the players who do hit are mostly complimentary (only one 1D and I guess Gomez could have been considered a 1C for awhile) Morgan Frost is a good pick given where he was taken. Not a great pick, perhaps maybe he can be he's only 26, but he's a good pick. So whatever expectations you had/have of him are unrealistic.

I'm sure you understand the point of analyzing ES scoring from PP scoring in their own contexts so I won't bother.

The problem, for me anyways, is that Frost hit the scoresheet at Seeler pace this season on ES. This may not trouble you at all but it troubles me. It's really not redeemable in the context of even a single full season.

As for expectations, I wasn't really going off of draft position years after the fact. I always thought it was a great pick and always perceived his particular skillset and overall package as lending to that of a near mostly surefire 2C.

 

[BackWithaVengeance]

The Flyers will hire Patrick Roy from the Isles as a head coach next season. You read it here first.

If so R.I.P. Bjarnasson.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ya, I agree that our management's plan isn't what it could or should be, but what we want them to do doesn't change what they're actually going to do. Crying about the way your favorite hockey team is managed doesn't change the way it's managed, it just reinforces your misery.

I really hope y'all don't treat your personal realities the same way you treat your fanship. You choose to be Flyers fans, and you get Flyers bullshit in return. We know through the history of the franchise what it likely continues to result in. Try to go with it, because you cannot change it.

I think you're drastically overestimating my investment. They warrant a shrug and mockery these days. Nobody here actually takes them seriously anymore, or invests actual emotion in them.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm sure you understand the point of analyzing ES scoring from PP scoring in their own contexts so I won't bother.

The problem, for me anyways, is that Frost hit the scoresheet at Seeler pace this season on ES. This may not trouble you at all but it troubles me. It's really not redeemable in the context of even a single full season.

As for expectations, I wasn't really going off of draft position years after the fact. I always thought it was a great pick and always perceived his particular skillset and overall package as lending to that of a near mostly surefire 2C.

5v5

Don't know where you get "Seeler Pace" given the clear outpacing of Seeler there.


That's GP, minutes, goals, A1, A2, pts, iSF, iFF, iCF, iXG.

Fun fact, rate-wise Frost was the second most effective goalscorer per minute the Flyers had. Once you go with rates, it's not even worth comparing him and Seeler.