Post-Game Talk: #7 - 01/28/21 | RANGERS @ sabres

[jay from jersey]

I feel like it's really really early to make that call.

Most of the discussion was a debate over how Kreider ages. A player that does what he does (Plus the net front intangible that doesnt impact metrics much) is certainly worth right around 6.75-7 million a year.

The question is- will Kreider still be that player in 4 years, in 7? How much of that contract are we getting a good value out of?

The other question is- as Lafreniere likely becomes a star and Panarin likely continues to be one, how important of a role is Kreider actually going to get to play? In big games Panarin plays 23 minutes. You have to imagine if Lafreniere becomes anywhere near as good as Panarin he'll be looking at a similar number. What's Kreider going to end up playing?

Positive asterisk though- Kreider has never been a 20 minute a game player. He averages between 14.5 and 17.5 minutes a game for most of his major seasons. So maybe he IS the kind of guy who will be just as effective coming on the ice fresh and playing third line minutes, provided he stays on the PP and PK. I'm open to being optimistic.

If Kreider averages 45-50 points over his contract a year I won't complain when all is said and done. I still wonder if we knew what we knew now, though, if I wouldn't pick Buchnevich for the extension.

The other potential positive is it would be nice, for a change for NYR to draft a player and have them play WELL here their whole career. Maybe Chris can be that guy, hit 300 NYR goals and all that. He and Panarin are gonna be the grizzled veterans when we are playing deep into the playoffs so his experience is helpful too.

There is no one on the team presently, besides him or in our system that is a force in front of the net with screening/deflections etc. I don’t know why people this this is such an immovable contract 4-5 years down the line

 

[JCProdigy]

You can’t predict a flat cap; but you can predict getting another top talent who will chip away at Kreider’s importance. If we didn’t get Kakko we would have gotten Zegras; if we didn’t get Lafreniere we would have gotten Lundell.

I see both sides of the Kreider argument. One thing on your examples though is both players mentioned (Zegras, Lundell) are centers and if picked by the Rangers, my guess is they would've stayed at center. If not for Laf, who's the LW prospect depth in the Rangers pipeline? Barron, Aaltonen? I was on the fence whether it was the right move (still am) but I could understand it from an organizational standpoint at the time. I guess the hope is that by his age 31/32 season that the Rangers are contenders for the cup and he's the "old guard" that does things well (net front tip-ins, outside speed) that will still be effective at that point.

that win really takes the wind out of my sails to complain about Quinn. Quiet non game day for me.

Sorry for your loss...

 

[Edge]

Errr...come on guys lol. Hedman is an elite guy.

K’Andre has looked great so far. But @Edge has warned us probably a hundred times by now that this kid could be an extremely up/down player for several years before settling, so I’d be very cautious about thinking it’s all up, up, and away from here on out.

The Hedman comparisons are interesting, though I am very hesitant to go that direction.

Personally, has always reminded me a bit of a young Jay Bouwmeester. The size and skating combination, the value not being directly tied into offensive production, the amount of ground they cover, etc.

Bouwmeester was more polished at a younger age, but Miller is a standout physical specimen. But if the end results were in the same ballpark, that’s a home run.

 

[aufheben]

The Hedman comparisons are interesting, though I am very hesitant to go that direction.

Personally, has always reminded me a bit of a young Jay Bouwmeester. The size and skating combination, the value not being directly tied into offensive production, the amount of ground they cover, etc.

Bouwmeester was more polished at a younger age, but Miller is a standout physical specimen. But if the end results were in the same ballpark, that’s a home run.

Miller covers ice like a fricken albatross, but man, Bouwmeester was such a beautiful skater. And he had the most Canadian-sounding name ever. Always looked completely anguished, but yeah, beautiful skater.

 

[will1066]

Miller covers ice like a fricken albatross, but man, Bouwmeester was such a beautiful skater. And he had the most Canadian-sounding name ever. Always looked completely anguished, but yeah, beautiful skater.

Man, what do you have against albatrosses?

@CasusBelli

 

[aufheben]

Man, what do you have against albatrosses?

@CasusBelli

Idk what guy associated terrible contracts with a bird so badass it can literally fly without flapping it’s goddamn wings.

 

[Synergy27]

Incredibly disappointing lack of long term thinking by Gorton. Its almost like he saw what Miller was doing once he traded him away for nothing and was terrified of Kreider doing the same.

This is revisionist history. The Kreider deal became bad the moment that ping pong ball came out of the machine. But prior to that happening, while wing depth was a strength, the certainty provided by Kreider in that top 6 (amongst other positive traits) was critical.

Having Kreider here along with a prospect drafted 9th overall that is still a few years away from cracking the lineup looks a hell of a lot different than what we're faced with today.

 

[egelband]

I’ll say this again. There is no road that leads to Buchnevich being here long term. You cannot afford it. Just can’t.

I think this is correct. In which case, we should be able to get a boatload for him.

 

[egelband]

The Hedman comparisons are interesting, though I am very hesitant to go that direction.

Personally, has always reminded me a bit of a young Jay Bouwmeester. The size and skating combination, the value not being directly tied into offensive production, the amount of ground they cover, etc.

Bouwmeester was more polished at a younger age, but Miller is a standout physical specimen. But if the end results were in the same ballpark, that’s a home run.

If I’m coaching him, I am making sure K’Andre feels ZERO pressure to produce any offense. Just play fierce defense.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

The exciting thing about K’Andre is how unique he is. There are so few player comps because he’s so unique.

Great skater, long reach, physical freak, 6’5 , covers so much space and has incredible range. It’s like even if he makes mistakes he can almost always recover.

BTW, anyone else having issues with HF using their phones? I keep having the text changing on me while I’m typing and sometimes I’ll type out a post and the image will refresh in the middle of it. Seems like the site, on mobile at least, is acting weird.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

I think this is correct. In which case, we should be able to get a boatload for him.

Unprotected 2022 1st rd pick + AINEC!

 

[Kovalev27]

What do you think he'd get on a long term extension?

Seems to me we made the decision when we signed Kreider, and it may well have been the wrong one.

i believe the kreider move was the right one. You cannot expect a lottery hall to change your franchise in that way. But it’s a valid argument to say you prefer buch over kreider. I disagree but it’s certainly valid.

to your point though the decision was made though at that time. Fast is gone because we couldn’t pay any more wingers and needed to start opening up spots to kids we’ve committed to. Buch will be gone as well for those same reasons.

but yes he should bring back a great return.

 

[leetch99]

If I’m coaching him, I am making sure K’Andre feels ZERO pressure to produce any offense. Just play fierce defense.

In all honesty....if Trouba did that...we would be in great shape . Stick to the defense aspect of things and let Tony and Fox handle the offense .

 

[leetch99]

i believe the kreider move was the right one. You cannot expect a lottery hall to change your franchise in that way. But it’s a valid argument to say you prefer buch over kreider. I disagree but it’s certainly valid.

to your point though the decision was made though at that time. Fast is gone because we couldn’t pay any more wingers and needed to start opening up spots to kids we’ve committed to. Buch will be gone as well for those same reasons.

but yes he should bring back a great return.

Kreider likely will fit the cap if we have decent ELC guys and UFA fellows that can fill 4 spots up front without hurting us . It would be tricky for sure and hard to maintain for any length of time and would involve some crafty drafting and development time in the AHL or Europe.