Post-Game Talk: #6 - 10/16/18 | avalanche @ RANGERS | 7:00 - MSG

[Placid]

Which teams since 1980 won the cup without bottoming out?

I also dont agree with the morale issue and “losing culture” especially with future HOF prospects while they were young.

Again, alrernative to bottoming out I see presented is textbook RangersTown impatience and surprising naïveté.

Its not about "bottoming out", its about replacing the old players with new players. New coach, new philosophies, new system, etc etc. The only reason to "bottom out" is to get that guaranteed draft pick, there is literally no other reason for it. Zero... zip.. nada.

While i am certainly no coach or Rangers management, look at this scenario :

We got rid of a number of players prior to this season, and we are now fielding a roughly 70 / 30 split of old / new (give or take). Over the course of this season, we'll get rid of another 3+ players (Vesey, Kreider, Zucc, Hayes, Nams, etc), replacing where possible with internal promotion (Lias for example), and some "cheap temps" if we can find them, all the while keeping a lookout for promising youngsters. That should mean that going into next season is at least a 50 / 50'ish split, probably weighted towards the new players. If we can find the replacement players, a "complete switch" could happen in two years.

That is the path i hope we take, but we'll have to see what management has in store for us

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Its not about "bottoming out", its about replacing the old players with new players. New coach, new philosophies, new system, etc etc. The only reason to "bottom out" is to get that guaranteed draft pick, there is literally no other reason for it. Zero... zip.. nada.

While i am certainly no coach or Rangers management, look at this scenario :

We got rid of a number of players prior to this season, and we are now fielding a roughly 70 / 30 split of old / new (give or take). Over the course of this season, we'll get rid of another 3+ players (Vesey, Kreider, Zucc, Hayes, Nams, etc), replacing where possible with internal promotion (Lias for example), and some "cheap temps" if we can find them, all the while keeping a lookout for promising youngsters. That should mean that going into next season is at least a 50 / 50'ish split, probably weighted towards the new players. If we can find the replacement players, a "complete switch" could happen in two years.

That is the path i hope we take, but we'll have to see what management has in store for us

Holy shit.

If this is how the fandom is getting after a few games into a rebuild and a shootout win, I am growing increasingly convinced the Rangers will not do a full rebuild, and we will not see a cup in New York in our lifetimes.

 

[LORDE]

And then we'll need to wait 4 years for him to mature.. and then we find out that he isn't a game changer or what we need, in which it is decided to chase the next 1st OA, which we may have an outside chance of getting in 10 years

Screw the draft (in terms of 1st OA).. In 6 of the last 9 years, the Edmonton Oilers have picked within the top 5 OA (4 of those times they've gotten the 1st OA, the 3 years outside of the top 5 pick they got a 7th, a 22nd and a 10th OA) . While it appears that they are ever so slowly getting on the right track (or maybe i should just say that they are on board with McDavid at the helm), its not exactly a team that inspires much confidence (i think everyone but Hall and Yakupov is still with the Oilers ?).

2010 - Taylor Hall (1st OA)
2011 - Ryan Nugent Hopkins (1st OA)
2012 - Nail Yakupov (1st OA)
2013 - Darnell Nurse (7th OA)
2014 - Leon Draisatl (3rd OA)
2015 - Connor McDavid (1st OA)
2016 - Jesse Puljularvi (4th OA)
2017 - Kailer Yamamoto (22nd OA)
2018 - Evan Bouchard (10th OA)

That list does not inspire confidence in the 1st OA being the "unicorn that we are missing". McDavid certainly looks like the real deal, but outside of first winning the lottery by getting the 1st OA.. and then winning the lottery a second time to get a really good player, it just.... bleh

Who on that list would you not trade any player on our squad for at this point besides Nail?

 

[Placid]

Holy ****.

If this is how the fandom is getting after a few games into a rebuild and a shootout win, I am growing increasingly convinced the Rangers will not do a full rebuild, and we will not see a cup in New York in our lifetimes.

So let me hear your suggestion ? Im sure it involves something along the lines of "blow it up", sell everyone and their mothers, make a beeline for the next 5 1st OA picks while bottomfeeding for the next decade, until we finally get the messiah at some future undisclosed date

As for "this is how the fandom is getting".. i only speak for myself, i couldn't tell you what anyone else on this forum prefers. I can also tell you that its a position i've had for years, its not something i "picked up in the last few games".

 

[Placid]

Who on that list would you not trade any player on our squad for at this point besides Nail?

Sort of beside the point, isn't it ? Edmonton, while being the posterboy for everything some people here want to happen to the Rangers, are still a mediocre team despite getting 4 1st OA's inside 6 years. High draft picks is not the be-all end-all, there are other factors.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

So let me hear your suggestion ? Im sure it involves something along the lines of "blow it up", sell everyone and their mothers, make a beeline for the next 5 1st OA picks while bottomfeeding for the next decade, until we finally get the messiah at some future undisclosed date

As for "this is how the fandom is getting".. i only speak for myself, i couldn't tell you what anyone else on this forum prefers. I can also tell you that its a position i've had for years, its not something i "picked up in the last few games".

Look I’m only using context of the last 100 or so years, so forgive me.

By “this is how the fandom is getting” , this isn't the first time Madison avenue f***ed the whole thing up the first nanosecond the team showed a pulse.

For example, the Rangers were a joke from 1998-2004, the league almoat colapsed, Bettman rigged the draft, and the league started again for the New Era

It looked as if that rag tag roster led by Kevin Weekes was going to be as shitty as usual until a young Swede took the pipes, and RangersTown™ was able to taste the sweet bliss of being swept in the first round by the Devils.

Now they could have not looked a gift horse in the mouth, but what happened?

Within a season and a half, with The King dragging the team with his HOF play, the Rangers went out and bought players again. Several of whom became huge issues.

And the end result was no cup for the King or us while other teams who were also shitty during our Dark Ages just plodded along buidling up young, not bought, superstar rosters en route to 90% of the cups during that time span.

Furthemore, to build from within you needs things to build with.

You gain those things from

1.Drafting
2.Trades
3. Buying

The modern dynasties did this, but they did it in the 1,2,3 order respectively.

So the Rangers are going to build from within? How?!?

1. Several homerun picks from the 16-22 spot?
2. Who wants our prospects for anything that would help us?
3.RangersTown MO


I don’t get any of you.

 

[LORDE]

Sort of beside the point, isn't it ? Edmonton, while being the posterboy for everything some people here want to happen to the Rangers, are still a mediocre team despite getting 4 1st OA's inside 6 years. High draft picks is not the be-all end-all, there are other factors.

But it is the point when we don't have anyone, nor have had anyone with talent like that list.

Not one.

We need that desperately. There's one way to get that and that is to lose and get lucky with the lottery.

I'm not saying EDM is a well run org. but I am hopeful we are run more effectively. We were never going to do anything but lose this season... it's fine. If the lottery doesn't go our way, oh well... add2-3 more 1st and hope we strike gold.

 

[Bluto]

With how competitive and entertaining this team is, I do not see them being bad for more than a year. The whole rhetoric changes if we get panarin and/or EK this offseason.

 

[kovazub94]

....

The forwards on the other hand seem to me more of an issue. Zibanejad's line with Kreider and Fast are playing well. Almost everyone else other than Howden have been pretty inconsistent. A couple three of them--Spooner, Vesey and Buchnevich have been too much on the periphery.

Vesey?

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

It's so insane how so many people say 'DON'T TANK, IT LEADS TO NOTHING JUST LOOK AT EDMONTON.' Because we all know it's always smart to choose the outlier.

Hawks, Pens, Caps, Kings. Please tell me where all of there star players who led them to the cup were drafted. I can tell you, it wasn't #20.

The only outlier for winning a cup without high draft picks in the post-cap era is Boston.

There is surely more than one way to build a team. But there is also one clear way, which more often than not provides the best chance at winning a cup and Reggie explained it quite well.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

So let me hear your suggestion ? Im sure it involves something along the lines of "blow it up", sell everyone and their mothers, make a beeline for the next 5 1st OA picks while bottomfeeding for the next decade, until we finally get the messiah at some future undisclosed date

As for "this is how the fandom is getting".. i only speak for myself, i couldn't tell you what anyone else on this forum prefers. I can also tell you that its a position i've had for years, its not something i "picked up in the last few games".

With how competitive and entertaining this team is, I do not see them being bad for more than a year. The whole rhetoric changes if we get panarin and/or EK this offseason.

Ahem... @Placid

 

[Off Sides]

My suggestion would be to have a multi pronged plan, develop whatever youth they can, try to get value back for those who will not be here when the rebuild is over, while putting those those who are untradable out to pasture. In the mean time if some of those they develop are not in the long term plans, sell them too, but in order to do so they have to still develop them.

 

[Larrybiv]

Interesting to see how seriously the Caps take this Rangers team. They must have gotten word on how this team is very different and playing with a newly found tougher game. Will they take us for granted, or is their hatred for us still standing given all of their PO exits, mostly have been by Rangers doing.

 

[Irishguy42]

Soooooooooooooo...this should be locked?

 

[Larrybiv]

Vinny has been spooky missing. Surprised, yet not surprised given his linemates. Thought he would be more noticeable, maybe tonight he starts to feel it.

 

[Larrybiv]

Nice rush and pass by Neal......wooohooo!

 

[Larrybiv]

Little behind here.....but yuppers! No sooner I mention Vinny, he makes a good pick (lucky he didn't get caught). This kid is a winner......really reminds me of early Cally. Probably will never reach that.....just saying.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Little behind here.....but yuppers! No sooner I mention Vinny, he makes a good pick (lucky he didn't get caught). This kid is a winner......really reminds me of early Cally. Probably will never reach that.....just saying.

I think you're in the wrong thread.

 

[BroadwayStorm]

Is David Quinn the kid from Youngblood all grown up?

 

[Larrybiv]

I don't think it's so much clearly missing out as it is never finding a gem in nearly two decades.

None of Pavelski, Wheeler, Kuch, Gaudreau were taken high, for example.

We also clearly whiffed in 2006 but that's beside the point.

Pretty sure we got our "GEM" in the 7th round. Imagine how many perspective teams have used Hank's reference in how lucky we were to get a future Hall of famer in the 7th no less the 3rd or 4th. Lots of teams envious of that pick and missed out. If they "had" grabbed him instead of struggling to find that "GEM" like we did, those teams may have won a cup, but didn't. What if the Flyers, Sharks or Ducks had grabbed him in the 7th when they drafted Perry&Getzlaf.......Giroux&Couturier.....Thornton&Marleau? See what I mean?
Simply put, we want those type offensive players, but have only been blessed with Hank. Ordinarily we get the Fast's, Cally's and Dubinski's of the world......good players but nothing really dominating that I guess can only be had by drafting 1-5 or so.