Post-Game Talk: #6 - 10/16/18 | avalanche @ RANGERS | 7:00 - MSG

[Webster]

I believe Zucc's mom is in town, her cooking obviously got him going

 

[Off Sides]

From the the 2:40 - 2:46 mark, where is Staal going off that face-off? What is Name doing for that matter?

I can't say put all the blame on him but what a mess that was.

 

[Lion Hound]

Happy to see Shatty find some confidence. This club needs him to step it up. He wanted to come here. Its looking like it was a bad decision for him. Hoping he continues to find his game here.

 

[will1066]

This just isn't a top 5 pick team... I haven't seen them playing this hard since Torts and that level of effort goes a long way.

Some of those Torts teams arguably won more/went further than they should have because of effort. I don't think this team will reach that level of effort but Quinn will have them playing high percentage hockey and play the right way for the most part. We will not be finishing 20% of our scoring chances, but I know that many of our remaining 76 games will be close on the scoreboard.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

Chytil also showed some flashes of brilliance. And how about that Staal hit on Rantanen?

Almost vintage Staal on that hit

 

[fredrikstad]

And then we'll need to wait 4 years for him to mature.. and then we find out that he isn't a game changer or what we need, in which it is decided to chase the next 1st OA, which we may have an outside chance of getting in 10 years

Screw the draft (in terms of 1st OA).. In 6 of the last 9 years, the Edmonton Oilers have picked within the top 5 OA (4 of those times

they've gotten the 1st OA, the 3 years outside of the top 5 pick they got a 7th, a 22nd and a 10th OA) . While it appears that they are ever so slowly getting on the right track (or maybe i should just say that they are on board with McDavid at the helm), its not exactly a team that inspires much confidence (i think everyone but Hall and Yakupov is still with the Oilers ?).

2010 - Taylor Hall (1st OA)
2011 - Ryan Nugent Hopkins (1st OA)
2012 - Nail Yakupov (1st OA)
2013 - Darnell Nurse (7th OA)
2014 - Leon Draisatl (3rd OA)
2015 - Connor McDavid (1st OA)
2016 - Jesse Puljularvi (4th OA)
2017 - Kailer Yamamoto (22nd OA)
2018 - Evan Bouchard (10th OA)

That list does not inspire confidence in the 1st OA being the "unicorn that we are missing". McDavid certainly looks like the real deal, but outside of first winning the lottery by getting the 1st OA.. and then winning the lottery a second time to get a really good player, it just.... bleh

Could not have agreed more Placid
Since I have been lurking this board since 2010 ,they have been like "Just wait for Kreider" and then it was Buch. At the same time the team has trown big money after ower the top veterans. That is the problem IMO. Hank is the only one who has deserved his big pay chech. He is a franchise player,and what, a 7th rounder? There is NO guarantie a number 1 OA or two will give you a cup. Someone said the past years have been the best run in many years. But yet I have heard almost nothing but complains like "fire Sather,fire Torts,fire AV and this team s**k" in this "great"run. Sorry for the spelling
And btw sorry for the OT rant.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Chytil had some flashes but was still too much of a non-factor on a line that created a bunch of chances last night. Let him stay on that line and try to find some rhythm. If he doesn't, send him down.

 

[cheech70]

It makes sense to build up Shatty ,Smith even Claussens trade value. . As much as I would like ADA and Neil to play every game the long game is to build our tradeable assets. This season is so pleasantly appealing. The last few years were hum drum with limited potential. Now I watch every game and am super impressed with this coach. The team has jump. I loved Hank coaching up Smith on the ice and Smith listening and nodding affirmatively.
Over on the trade board Dreger is saying that the Bruins are looking for a center. This has Hayes all over it. It would be nice if it happened by Christmas so that Lias could be brought up. Howden looks like a 2C so it could slot in very nicely.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Could not have agreed more Placid
Since I have been lurking this board since 2010 ,they have been like "Just wait for Kreider" and then it was Buch. At the same time the team has trown big money after ower the top veterans. That is the problem IMO. Hank is the only one who has deserved his big pay chech. He is a franchise player,and what, a 7th rounder? There is NO guarantie a number 1 OA or two will give you a cup. Someone said the past years have been the best run in many years. But yet I have heard almost nothing but complains like "fire Sather,fire Torts,fire AV and this team s**k" in this "great"run. Sorry for the spelling
And btw sorry for the OT rant.

Could not have agreed more Placid
Since I have been lurking this board since 2010 ,they have been like "Just wait for Kreider" and then it was Buch. At the same time the team has trown big money after ower the top veterans. That is the problem IMO. Hank is the only one who has deserved his big pay chech. He is a franchise player,and what, a 7th rounder? There is NO guarantie a number 1 OA or two will give you a cup. Someone said the past years have been the best run in many years. But yet I have heard almost nothing but complains like "fire Sather,fire Torts,fire AV and this team s**k" in this "great"run. Sorry for the spelling
And btw sorry for the OT rant.

You are a long term Ranger fan, yet tou don’t want a full rebuild?

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Also I hate the “it doesn’t guarantee” argument.

I mean yeah...by the very nature of nothing being guaranteed.

The overwhelming evidence supports bottoming out and buidling up.

Not to mention how many years the Rangers didn’t do that combined with everyone bitching about how we needed X player, but we couldn't draft him.

I feel as if people would argue if the sky was blue here. In fact, we might need to sticky that.

I’m not sure what else there is to say...

 

[eco's bones]

I was fine with Pionk last night. I'd be fine with DeAngelo back in the lineup though too. He's played the least amount of games of our defensemen and the one I saw he looked very good in. I'm not unhappy with McQuaid either. So......personally I'm not running a hate on a defenseman thing. All of them in my eyes are doing alright. The Rangers have kept the goals against down--a lot of that is Henrik but they're tighter in front of their net and more aggressively going after opposing players when they have the puck.

The forwards on the other hand seem to me more of an issue. Zibanejad's line with Kreider and Fast are playing well. Almost everyone else other than Howden have been pretty inconsistent. A couple three of them--Spooner, Vesey and Buchnevich have been too much on the periphery.

 

[Larrybiv]

This team is coming off the longest sustained period of "success" in team history. It just didn't get a cup. They won more games in the Lundqvist era than they have in any other period. Now it's time to try something new. I give management credit for keeping the goal set at championships, because it would have been very easy to stay a top half team, make the playoffs and see how many playoff games worth of revenue you can pull in. Dolan mau be a goof, but he's not cheap, and he spends money putting a product on the ice when he could just as soon keep the money in his pocket.

What good would that do? I mean, how much money does one NEED? I agree, he has a bad rap because he visually supports the Knickerbockers. Lol. Our problem always "had been" Sather and anyone who thought bringing in "big names" would suffice and appease the fans for the time being in producing a lesser product to begin with.

 

[Larrybiv]

Hopefully that has changed now, and either you ARE a true fan and willing to go through all of this, OR don't be and I guess we will see you in a couple to 3 years. But you won't be welcome then.

 

[Larrybiv]

The difference between 1st overall pick odds from the 31st worst to the 30th is 5 percentage points the same as 30th to 27th or 27th to 22nd. That’s what you want to bank on?

I'd rather have a team progressing and a lesser chance at the lotto. Not wanting the worst record, nor best chances. Absolutely DO NOT be a bubble team though. Too many people might get in Gorton's ear about "adding" and helping to fulfill Hank's request/dream.

 

[TGWL]

From the the 2:40 - 2:46 mark, where is Staal going off that face-off? What is Name doing for that matter?

I can't say put all the blame on him but what a mess that was.

While not the smartest decision, it looks like Staal tries to cover the open defensemen who switches with the winger. Still, he paid too much attention to that player instead of the forward who got behind him.

 

[Larrybiv]

Chytil also showed some flashes of brilliance. And how about that Staal hit on Rantanen?

Was never a "bruiser", but he regularly hit people at one time. Those concussions/eye thing really put a hurt on what once was a "very good" player. A shame and always makes me think about Sauer. They made a nice pair, along with McD/Dan

 

[Machinehead]

Also I hate the “it doesn’t guarantee” argument.

I mean yeah...by the very nature of nothing being guaranteed.

The overwhelming evidence supports bottoming out and buidling up.

Not to mention how many years the Rangers didn’t do that combined with everyone *****ing about how we needed X player, but we couldn't draft him.

I feel as if people would argue if the sky was blue here. In fact, we might need to sticky that.

I’m not sure what else there is to say...

I feel as though because they didn't pick high, this front office gets no criticism for poor drafting. At some point, it's not an excuse. We've gone way too many years without an elite forward.

 

[Larrybiv]

I noticed him on 8th Ave a couple of hours ago, he was walking the dog...

He was playing with his yo-yo?

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Couldn't watch the game, only highlights and the stat-sheet. Really glad to see the Shat Deuces have a baller game, his precision was there and he was speedy, so it appeared to me.
We'll need him to be that, unless he wants his tenure with us to be rather short. Which would be a shame since he's a true blue Ranger and he took the cut in salary, I want his time to be fruitful in the end, with us.

 

[SML2]

Hopefully that has changed now, and either you ARE a true fan and willing to go through all of this, OR don't be and I guess we will see you in a couple to 3 years. But you won't be welcome then.

Not sure if you are referring to me, but I've watched every game that wasn't blacked out as long as I could make it to a TV since about 1987. So I don't need any invitation, I will already be sitting at this table regardless.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I feel as though because they didn't pick high, this front office gets no criticism for poor drafting. At some point, it's not an excuse. We've gone way too many years without an elite forward.

I mentioned this the other day, but outside of 2003 and 2010, where did they miss out? The one time they nailed picking an elite talent, he died. You can PM me if you want to have this discussion so we don’t clog up the thread.

 

[Placid]

You are a long term Ranger fan, yet tou don’t want a full rebuild?

I realize you didn't ask that question to me, but i'll answer it anyway (only speaking for myself of course).

Yes, of course i support a full rebuild, i just think we differ on the methods. A full rebuild is everything from methodically switching in new young players into the roster, getting them comfortable and used to everything, and then keep up switching out the old with the new until the roster is "renewed".

That would be my preferred approach (and the one we seem to be doing, more or less). In the other extreme end is the "blow it up" version, which is popularly used in comments.. basically sell off everyone, start playing what is essentially the Wolfpack, and let the chips fall where they may (but hopefully we'll be beyond abysmal so we can get those high draft picks...).

That i am against for a multitude of reasons, from Organizational impact, fan impact, players morale, players (lack of) development and what have you. To me, that approach has a 99.999 percent chance of being a complete sh*tshow.

The downside of the "methodical" approach is that it takes longer. The upside of it is that there is always veteran leadership (by the time the "old guys" are switched out, the first "new guys", (IE, Lias, Chytil, Pionk, etc) will have accrued veteran status themselves, and should "easily" be able to pick up the torch).

The methodical approach is also far better from an economical perspective. With continuous switching, wages can be relatively easily juggled (until we get that "lets get player X at 12 mill a year for the next decade, what could possibly go wrong" moment that seems an inevitability at some point, hehe...).

 

[Machinehead]

I mentioned this the other day, but outside of 2003 and 2010, where did they miss out? The one time they nailed picking an elite talent, he died. You can PM me if you want to have this discussion so we don’t clog up the thread.

I don't think it's so much clearly missing out as it is never finding a gem in nearly two decades.

None of Pavelski, Wheeler, Kuch, Gaudreau were taken high, for example.

We also clearly whiffed in 2006 but that's beside the point.

 

[Tob]

Could not have agreed more Placid
Since I have been lurking this board since 2010 ,they have been like "Just wait for Kreider" and then it was Buch. At the same time the team has trown big money after ower the top veterans. That is the problem IMO. Hank is the only one who has deserved his big pay chech. He is a franchise player,and what, a 7th rounder? There is NO guarantie a number 1 OA or two will give you a cup. Someone said the past years have been the best run in many years. But yet I have heard almost nothing but complains like "fire Sather,fire Torts,fire AV and this team s**k" in this "great"run. Sorry for the spelling
And btw sorry for the OT rant.

suck is not a bad word, feel free to use that here.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I realize you didn't ask that question to me, but i'll answer it anyway (only speaking for myself of course).

Yes, of course i support a full rebuild, i just think we differ on the methods. A full rebuild is everything from methodically switching in new young players into the roster, getting them comfortable and used to everything, and then keep up switching out the old with the new until the roster is "renewed".

That would be my preferred approach (and the one we seem to be doing, more or less). In the other extreme end is the "blow it up" version, which is popularly used in comments.. basically sell off everyone, start playing what is essentially the Wolfpack, and let the chips fall where they may (but hopefully we'll be beyond abysmal so we can get those high draft picks...).

That i am against for a multitude of reasons, from Organizational impact, fan impact, players morale, players (lack of) development and what have you. To me, that approach has a 99.999 percent chance of being a complete sh*tshow.

The downside of the "methodical" approach is that it takes longer. The upside of it is that there is always veteran leadership (by the time the "old guys" are switched out, the first "new guys", (IE, Lias, Chytil, Pionk, etc) will have accrued veteran status themselves, and should "easily" be able to pick up the torch).

The methodical approach is also far better from an economical perspective. With continuous switching, wages can be relatively easily juggled (until we get that "lets get player X at 12 mill a year for the next decade, what could possibly go wrong" moment that seems an inevitability at some point, hehe...).

Which teams since 1980 won the cup without bottoming out?

I also dont agree with the morale issue and “losing culture” especially with future HOF prospects while they were young.

Again, alrernative to bottoming out I see presented is textbook RangersTown impatience and surprising naïveté.