OT: 58th Obsequious Banter Thread - Something Something Leier

[BernieParent]

If we woke up tomorrow and there were no more guns in the hands of civilians around the world, there'd an influx in improvised bombings and vehicle attacks. Along with that would come more government and stripped liberties.

****ty people do ****ty things, that's the reality.

That is a big supposition.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I don't care who you are, how many hours you train, and how good you are, you cannot safely return fire over 700 yards with a handgun. That's just moronic and highly insensitive that you would say that.

This is not directed at you, Defect, or anyone else, but the idea that in 2017 we are talking about "returning fire" in the context of civilian life, even hypothetically, makes me truly sick.

 

[Lord Defect]

This is not directed at you, Defect, or anyone else, but the idea that in 2017 we are talking about "returning fire" in the context of civilian life, even hypothetically, makes me truly sick.

It's been going on since there were guns. Before that clashing swords. Before that probably swinging sticks and throwing rocks.
People as a whole suck sometimes but other times are truly amazing and heroic.

 

[deadhead]

Oh, I understand what you meant now.



But hasn't Canada had a few shootings over the past year or two?

Regardless, whether guns are legal or not, there will always be stories like this. Just look at Europe. Bombs, vehicular killings, stabbings, etc. Obviously guns make it easier, but my point is, no matter what, ****ty people do ****ty things unfortunately. (I'm not saying this in defense of guns being legal, just pointing out a sad truth)

Canada has widespread gun ownership, lots of hunters.
However, they don't condone the hunting of two legged game, and the NRA doesn't control the government.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Welp, just found out that my fiancé's sister (her Matron of Honor) got deployed for a sixty day (minimum) mission to Puerto Rico to assist with hurricane relief.

The Wedding is in 40 days.

Oh boy.

 

[deadhead]

The reason that the United States of America has firearms is to allow to population the ability to overthrow a tyrannical government. It's not to be able to hunt, or kill paper targets, or to collect flashy things. It's a literal check and balance against our government becoming a dictatorship.
In a population of 300,000,000 people, it is much easier to operate a black market and obtain anything illegally. In a country of 300,000 it is not.
Chicago has the strictest gun control in the United States and has the largest death toll of murders by firearms of any other city.
I do believe in gun control, and think that background checks need to be more thorough, but the people championing the cause has zero experience and absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

Yeah, that worked really well in Syria.
You have fun with your popgun against M1 tanks and F35s and Apache attack helicopters.
The only protection against a tyrannical government is to bring back the draft so that the armed forces are representative of the citizenry as a whole.
Then watch a general ask soldiers to fire on their neighbors.

Chicago can't control guns, the national government could, we don't even have to take guns away, just require the same level of testing, identification and control of sales we apply to motor vehicles, for example.
And ban all semi-automatic weapons, they have only one use, hunting two legged game.
And ban cop killer bullets for the same reason.

If you want a gun for protection, take the same tests cops take so the rest of us know you're competent to operate a weapon without killing innocent civilians, since most gun owners couldn't hit the side of a barn in a real incident (though they're good at shooting unarmed people through doors). Shooting a stationary target isn't the same as shooting a gun in public under duress when the bullets can travel hundreds of yards.

People watch too many Hollywood movies, if you read about cop gunfights, most bullets don't hit the intended targets, or military actions where a sizeable % of soldiers are paralyzed by fear and never fire their weapons - there are few instances of gun owners stopping gun touting killers, a lot more of them shooting someone breaking into a car or a driver in a road rage incident. It's easy to fantasize about being the brave guy with a gun until actual bullets start flying.

 

[Striiker]

Canada has widespread gun ownership, lots of hunters.
However, they don't condone the hunting of two legged game, and the NRA doesn't control the government.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Welp, just found out that my fiancé's sister (her Matron of Honor) got deployed for a sixty day (minimum) mission to Puerto Rico to assist with hurricane relief.

The Wedding is in 40 days.

Oh boy.

Good luck, buddy - it sounds like you are having a lot of hurdles pop up. I can't stand being inconvenienced in any way, so I decided I was going to die alone and just play with Tinder in the meantime.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Good luck, buddy - it sounds like you are having a lot of hurdles pop up. I can't stand being inconvenienced in any way, so I decided I was going to die alone and just play with Tinder in the meantime.

Haha, thank you sir.

I mean i'm better off then one of the people that was deployed with her. His wedding is (or was) supposed to be this month which my soon to be brother-in-law questioned but apparently he is something that only he can do so he has to go.

 

[Oskar Man]

That is a big supposition.

It is and it's not based on facts either. I should've prefaced it with an "IMO".

We live in a sick world and it's a real shame.

 

[Lord Defect]

Welp, just found out that my fiancé's sister (her Matron of Honor) got deployed for a sixty day (minimum) mission to Puerto Rico to assist with hurricane relief.

The Wedding is in 40 days.

Oh boy.

That's rough. My wife would have been mortified. Poor choice of words.

 

[Lord Defect]

Yeah, that worked really well in Syria.
You have fun with your popgun against M1 tanks and F35s and Apache attack helicopters.
The only protection against a tyrannical government is to bring back the draft so that the armed forces are representative of the citizenry as a whole.
Then watch a general ask soldiers to fire on their neighbors.

Chicago can't control guns, the national government could, we don't even have to take guns away, just require the same level of testing, identification and control of sales we apply to motor vehicles, for example.
And ban all semi-automatic weapons, they have only one use, hunting two legged game.
And ban cop killer bullets for the same reason.

If you want a gun for protection, take the same tests cops take so the rest of us know you're competent to operate a weapon without killing innocent civilians, since most gun owners couldn't hit the side of a barn in a real incident (though they're good at shooting unarmed people through doors). Shooting a stationary target isn't the same as shooting a gun in public under duress when the bullets can travel hundreds of yards.

People watch too many Hollywood movies, if you read about cop gunfights, most bullets don't hit the intended targets, or military actions where a sizeable % of soldiers are paralyzed by fear and never fire their weapons - there are few instances of gun owners stopping gun touting killers, a lot more of them shooting someone breaking into a car or a driver in a road rage incident. It's easy to fantasize about being the brave guy with a gun until actual bullets start flying.

Did you really compare Syria to the United States? Unironically?
If the United States were to shift to a dictatorship it wouldn't be overnight. The population would need to be disarmed, distracted with all sorts of things and slowly change policies.
The United States would also need to maintain global support. Military equipment such as tanks and jets would not be used. That would be disastrous on the global stage. They would have to quietly and peacefully arrest any potential opposition.
You say that Chicago can't control the gun issue but big government can. Don't most people want big government out of local issues?
I do agree that owning a gun should include written and shooting exams before purchase and periodically. Psych evaluations are too subject for tomfoolery, there are far too many people beating the system as is al la the opioid epidemic.

 

[SnS]

Welp, just found out that my fiancé's sister (her Matron of Honor) got deployed for a sixty day (minimum) mission to Puerto Rico to assist with hurricane relief.

The Wedding is in 40 days.

Oh boy.

that's awful man. Hope it all works out in the end for you!

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The guy was well off & a big gambler apparently. He was in a big suite style room. He basically setup a war room in there. He had some type of camera by the door/hallway to see who was coming. He initially got into a gun fight & was firing through the door with a hotel security team. A security guard was hit in the leg & injured. He then killed himself later when LE was approaching the door.

This was pretty well planned & he had the wealth to fund it but he didn’t have any type of military background.

 

[Embiid]

There is so many creepy bits of info coming out....I read about what the girl in this video talks about beginning at the 5:08 mark. Was the lady saying they were all going to die tonight 45 minutes before the shooting just some whacko and it was coincidental??? Who was she? She got escorted out??

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

There is so many creepy bits of info coming out....I read about what the girl in this video talks about beginning at the 5:08 mark. Was the lady saying they were all going to die tonight 45 minutes before the shooting just some whacko and it was coincidental??? Who was she? She got escorted out??

People were saying it was the female companion who was listed apart of the house they shared together & that LE was initially seeking. But it came out today she wasn’t even in America when all this went down but rather in Tokyo.

I think the gunman put the room in her name or something which had them thinking she may be involved beyond just being in a relationship with the guy.

To add on to what I said above. Apparently the room was a double room suite & he built in platforms by the windows he shot out of.

 

[Embiid]

People were saying it was the female companion who was listed apart of the house they shared together & that LE was initially seeking. But it came out today she wasn’t even in America when all this went down but rather in Tokyo.

I think the gunman put the room in her name or something which had them thinking she may be involved beyond just being in a relationship with the guy.

To add on to what I said above. Apparently the room was a double room suite & he built in platforms by the windows he shot out of.

Yeah it is supposedly somebody different...she was with a male companion when she got escorted out. They said they were both around 5'6" and looked like regular folk. His female companion is 4'11' and yeah she was out of country...

 

[Sombastate]

Bit of information.

As desperate as it may have been, i took the little information I found about the girl in my previous story and was able to find her linkedn account. So i have a first and last name that i can use to monitor the "victim list" to see whether or not she is one of the casualties.

I feel like that's definitely better than nothing.

 

[BernieParent]

It is and it's not based on facts either. I should've prefaced it with an "IMO".

We live in a sick world and it's a real shame.

Thanks for your response. To vastly oversimplify, my view is that, since we do indeed live in a sick world, there are two prevailing beliefs regarding gun ownership:
• I need to protect myself and my own (general view of gun owners)
• I don't want to contribute to the world's sickness (general view of non-owners)

I am not trying to denigrate either perspective and we can certainly dissect the two statements ad infinitum. I believe to my core that human life is sacred and the taking of a human life, even for the noblest cause, is evil. That doesn't mean that no one should ever take another life, particularly when that would save even more lives; however, it cannot be taken as having a profound impact on the aggressor. Anything that facilitates that action is a great danger to the user. Guns escalate the danger; a four-year-old can kill an adult with a gun beyond what he/she could do with a knife, hammer, etc. Plus, they offer a detachment; pull the trigger and the person over there is wounded or killed.

Please read my words in the context that I have lived a life sheltered from violence in a country that does not promote gun ownership as a right. I cannot know whether or to what degree my viewpoint would be different if I grew up in an abusive home or a neighbourhood where dangerous people lived nearby.

 

[YEM]

You say that Chicago can't control the gun issue but

Chicago is a red herring in any gun control discussion
one can drive 20 minutes to Indiana and legally buy an assault rifle [amongst many other options at a gun show or via private sale], the likes of which are banned in Chicago

 

[Flyotes]

• I need to protect myself and my own (general view of gun owners)
• I don't want to contribute to the world's sickness (general view of non-owners)

I think morally stronger claims are made, namely:

1) I have a Right to own a gun. a) Because I have a basic and/or sovereign right to protect myself from harm (freedom from) and b) I have the freedom to own a gun as per the constitution. B is harder to justify if depending on how one reads the document (don't start), but A is much harder to defeat. Freedoms from are generally easier to argue for than freedoms to (healthcare, etc). Since ownership of the self is one of the 1st sort of fundamental rights -- meaning-- I have a right to property over myself, my body, etc, it seems to follow there should be a means or by extension another right allowing oneself to protect the fundamental right. This would be greater than government's claim over what I do with my body (let's pretend in a near possible world the government legislated the right to harvest my organs for rich people-- obviously my individual claim defeats theirs). Same would hold true of my being able to own a gun vs them saying I cannot. Minimally, a handgun or a shotgun are pretty protective, although there are anecdotal arguments on both sides ("your kid will shoot another kid!" vs "Newstory about lady fending off determined home invader." My suspicion is that defensive gun use is under-reported to the police (for fear them drawing a gun or shooting at someone defensively would get them into trouble).
2) A social utility argument that less guns empirically translates to less gun violence (i.e., you should value the social utility and be part of the gang).

One is more collectivized thinking and another is more individuated.

I wish an ideal balance could be struck. The West is weird as a culture because it is a myriad of contradictions battling it out between Hebraic and Hellenistic roots. Collective vs Individual. Law and Order vs Semi organized Chaos (hell-- I've been to enough raves to think I could have brought an ancient Greek to it and they would have exactly understood what was going on and started dancing). Reason vs Faith. Government can do the job vs Government sucks!

 

[Lord Defect]

Chicago is a red herring in any gun control discussion
one can drive 20 minutes to Indiana and legally buy an assault rifle [amongst many other options at a gun show or via private sale], the likes of which are banned in Chicago

But one still has to be able to legally purchase the gun. If your from another state you cannot legally buy a gun in Indiana, except Indiana has a law that private sellers, that do not have a brick and mortar store front(and possibly an internet store but I don't know) is not required by law to run a background check. They are held to the same standard in all other laws.
That's actually asinine. Private sellers should still have to go through a licensed dealer acting as a middle man.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Speaking of musicians, Tom Petty died.


I too am dead.

another part of my childhood is dead.
I saw him and the Heartbreakers a couple times in my youth. so good.
He will be missed.

 

[BernieParent]

I think morally stronger claims are made, namely:

1) I have a Right to own a gun. a) Because I have a basic and/or sovereign right to protect myself from harm (freedom from) and b) I have the freedom to own a gun as per the constitution. B is harder to justify if depending on how one reads the document (don't start), but A is much harder to defeat. Freedoms from are generally easier to argue for than freedoms to (healthcare, etc). Since ownership of the self is one of the 1st sort of fundamental rights -- meaning-- I have a right to property over myself, my body, etc, it seems to follow there should be a means or by extension another right allowing oneself to protect the fundamental right. This would be greater than government's claim over what I do with my body (let's pretend in a near possible world the government legislated the right to harvest my organs for rich people-- obviously my individual claim defeats theirs). Same would hold true of my being able to own a gun vs them saying I cannot. Minimally, a handgun or a shotgun are pretty protective, although there are anecdotal arguments on both sides ("your kid will shoot another kid!" vs "Newstory about lady fending off determined home invader." My suspicion is that defensive gun use is under-reported to the police (for fear them drawing a gun or shooting at someone defensively would get them into trouble).
2) A social utility argument that less guns empirically translates to less gun violence (i.e., you should value the social utility and be part of the gang).

One is more collectivized thinking and another is more individuated.

I wish an ideal balance could be struck. The West is weird as a culture because it is a myriad of contradictions battling it out between Hebraic and Hellenistic roots. Collective vs Individual. Law and Order vs Semi organized Chaos (hell-- I've been to enough raves to think I could have brought an ancient Greek to it and they would have exactly understood what was going on and started dancing). Reason vs Faith. Government can do the job vs Government sucks!

Thanks for elaborating on my admittedly basic blocs of gun ownership belief, Flyotes. I like your compare / contrast of the Hebraic and Hellenistic influences on Western society. Certainly, the "I have the right to ..." component is essential, and one I sidestepped to get to the desire to own a gun ... and that was in part because of the legal / Constitutional quagmire of what a "well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" means.

 

[Danko]

People coming into work sick drives me absolutely crazy. Your putting everyone else at risk because you don't want to burn a personal day.

I cannot get sick, i have a kid at home with medical issues and because some jack wagon wants to act like a hero and come to work coughing and sneezing all over the place your putting that at risk.

End Rant.