Yeah I know man, I know...points are reeeeal sexy and intoxicating aren't they? Go ask coach Q who he'd rather have, Kane or Toews...betting he says Toews...or even Keith for that matter.
Prospect Info: #5 OA - Barrett Hayton - Center - Back to the OHL
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Yeah I know man, I know...points are reeeeal sexy and intoxicating aren't they? Go ask coach Q who he'd rather have, Kane or Toews...betting he says Toews...or even Keith for that matter.
By your logic Chayka should have taken McLeod or Brown over Keller. Please stop and think about how silly this line of reasoning is.
Matias Maccete
Chopping up defenses
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Agreed. Ignoring Zadina being available, I have no complaints about this pick. With Zadina sitting there, it's tough.
Prospect camp should be very interesting. I look forward to seeing Hayton, hopefully he makes me forget about the possibility of Zadina being here.
IPreferPi
A Nonny Mouse
Keller put up 107 points in the USNTDP and 2 PPG at the U18s in his draft year and was ranked eighth on Mackenzie’s list. The only knock on him was size and maybe lack of elite speed. A surprise pick but not really a reach at 7 OA.
If this is our Bergeron or Toews then awesome, Chayka pulled a rabbit out of his hat- but no matter how good he is, how will the organization feel if Zadina DOESNT bust and cracks up to be what he is supposed to be? Best case we have our Bergeron but what if we could have had our Stamkos or Ovechkin? Is Hayton’s best case scenario more valuable than Zadina’s? That’s the hard question that makes me wonder and feel not so great.
Matias Maccete
Chopping up defenses
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Not really. Went about where he should have. Variance goes way up outside of the consensus tier.
So if you score 25-30 goals in the league...that means you aren't scoring for the other 52-60 or so games. What are you doing to help the team win? My guess is that Hayton is going to do a lot more than Zadina would...just like Toews did a lot more than Kane, and Kopitar did a lot more than Gaborik, or Bergeron did a lot more than Marchand...and the list goes on and on....
Regardless (and in the wrong thread, I know) this makes me wonder what else we have planned for the offseason as far as personnel goes. We did not address any even possibly short term needs.
The Pens didn't win shit until they got winger depth, and it didn't come cheaply. The goal is to amass as much talent as possible as cheaply as possible, and that's doubly true for a budget market. If Hayton turns out to be a 2 way center that scores about 45 points, that's a terrible use of the pick. That's close to replacement level.
Matias Maccete
Chopping up defenses
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Ah, yeah last year's draft was especially swingy too. POJ was ranked from like 60th to 20th from various groups Iirc. No real history of Chayka reaches then. The fact that Chayka would grab Keller over Brown or McLeod hopefully means that he really did think that Hayton was the best player on the board. Or his philosophy behind prioritizing centers changed. Or he thought Keller was exceptional.
IPreferPi
A Nonny Mouse
POJ had a early to mid second round grade on most lists. Given the latter half of the first is a total crapshoot anyway with a historically wide variance, there’s a lot more latitude to reach on a player you highly regard that others may not to the same extent in that part of the draft.
He prioritizes role and production against age. POJ was ahead of the curve based on his weight and age. Same for Keller. Hayton is one of the younger players in the draft. He will either pop next year in a major way or just fall flat. We won't really have to wait long for an answer to this question. Dylan Strome he is not.
Coyotes2000
Registered User
CC96
Serious Offender
Am I missing something too? Did Ovechkin not just win the Conn Smythe two weeks ago?
My only thought is that all of those pairs of players are of objectively the same talent level, just equipped with different skill sets. I’m just hoping that the difference between Hayton and Zadina is closer to the difference between Toews and Kane than the difference between Vermette and Kane.
I take it you didn't read the linked list. It was Bob McKenzie's. Had Keller 8th. Seems pretty close to where he was picked.
Here's the thread:
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/7-clayton-keller.2095597/
Some trepidation, but mostly positive. People were actually pretty high on Keller going into draft day. I think PhoPhan got the vapors after he was picked
Zadina isn't likely to become the Coyotes best player. Hayton isn't likely to become the Coyotes best player.
Thus the "fact" that Wingers don't often lead their teams to championships as their team's best player is not relevant as we weren't in almost all circumstances drafting our best player with this pick.
The only guy that didn't come cheap on the wing was Kessel. Guenztel was arguably as valuable, if not moreso, and he's on an ELC. Pretty cheap. Crosby and Malkin and goaltending are still the reason why they have Cups. There's a reason that all GM's build from the net out...because it works. I'm not saying wingers aren't valuable, of course they are and you need good ones to win. But they are a lot easier to come by through trades and free agency. Centers and D are not...everyone wants them and no one is trading them...unless their name is Marc Bergevin or Peter Chiarelli.
Matias Maccete
Chopping up defenses
- Sep 21, 2014
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Yup, if Frost graduates and Hayton gets top line offensive responsibilities next year we'll see if he's got elite offensive potential.
CC96
Serious Offender
Hahahaha I’d take Eller before Ovechkin.
He does the little things right, plays a premium position, and scored the cup winning goal hahaha.
I'd be a lot more comfortable with the Hayton pick if Ken Holland hadn't made it known how thrilled he was to have Zadina land in his lap despite a glaring needs on the blueline with Hughes staring him in the face. Saying that Zadina was 2nd on their board is just salt in the wound.
IPreferPi
A Nonny Mouse
I’ll call it now: Zadina will score a hat trick against us before Hayton takes his first shift in Coyotes red.
The thing that I think is important to focus on here is that there are so many under appreciated things that go into winning hockey games that aren't nearly as sexy as scoring goals. They include; compete level, commitment to excellence off ice, leadership, chemistry within the room, being positionally sound, making players around you better, winning board battles, blocking shots etc. You guys have all watched playoff hockey...I think you know what I'm talking about. My guess is that Hayton checks more of these boxes than Zadina, and he can be a fairly potent offensive threat on top of all those other intangibles. We'll see how he does next year in junior as the top line go to guy. I'm sure Zadina will be a fine player...but if I had to choose between a guy that scored 35 goals and that was pretty much his only contribution, and a guy who scored 25 but checked more of those boxes I listed above...I'll take the 25 goal guy all day long.
Reads like a textbook entry at the Marc Bergevin School of Management for Guys Who Can't Trade Good and Want to Learn How to Do Other Stuff Good Too
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