Prospect Info: #5 OA - Barrett Hayton - Center - Back to the OHL
- Thread starter SniperHF
- Start date
-
Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Unless the winger is world class, head and shoulders above anyone else available, take the C/D. I would have taken Hayton over Zadina.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
Haha. I couldn’t see that post. Sorry! Thought you were talking to me. Ego working overtime. Felled by Narcissism again. Haha.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
The next time someone calls Chayka a spreadsheet numbers geek, I’m going to lose it. He dropped a top five pick on basically the least productive CHL forward drafted in the top ten in the last decade and a half.
I went back 12 years. Chayka was 17 years old then. He was in high school. Haha.
IPreferPi
A Nonny Mouse
BUX7PHX
Registered User
- Jul 7, 2011
- 5,581
- 1,350
I think that some of the major factors that are being overlooked include on-ice positioning, puck tracking, and defensive awareness. A lot of players coming up have the wow factor on offense, but defensively it could be the other way around where they haven't been quite familiar with how to play defense. Their skill gets them far enough and obviously generational players have enough to balance them out to where they are not totally lost on D. I think that this may be the scenario where we take the approach that the kid knows where to put himself on the ice game-in and game-out. The ability to put himself in the proper position consistently will do wonders in getting him into the lineup in so many various ways.
Think about what we have talked about with Strome - even though his on-ice vision has been lauded, he didn't have the defensive chops to stay in the NHL for extended amounts of time. Only at the end of this past year did we finally see the offense carry over into the NHL. Maybe there is something behind good defense leading to good offense, and while Hayton's CHL numbers didn't highlight an idea that he was a game-breaker, his abilities to literally play every position and know where everyone should be on the ice serves him well when continuing to progress against the highest levels of competition.
**** Totally obscure reference here, but when I was going to college, one of the players that had been signed in the recruiting class was quite unheralded coming out of high school. He was a good player, but didn't get the same recognition as other players, for whatever reason. But he had a skill set that continued to put him in strong positions overall. He was only considered a 3 star recruit and other similar players should have been far ahead of him on the depth chart, based on that alone.
That player was AJ Hawk:
A.J. Hawk, Centerville, Outside Linebacker
He wound up being the 5th overall pick in the NFL draft (irony of the 5th OA pick notwithstanding), but this is a player who by all accounts, wasn't as "elite" as people would have thought. He was the #24 ranked senior in the state of Ohio coming out of high school and turned into the 5th OA pick. Some players don't always fit the bill and become the guy immediately, but a player like Hawk played so many different positions in high school - defensive end, outside linebacker, inside linebacker, even some interior line work - that he knew what to do and where to be that he became that player that was always involved in plays. Just mentioning this seems so similar to how some scouts are talking about Hayton, where he just knows where to be and what to do so often that he comes away with the puck on his stick so often and will likely be that player that just continues to make good play after good play.****
Bottom line - I think that we are looking at a player that may not have that "it" factor in one area, but has that factor that is just below elite in so many areas but we haven't quite seen it shake out quite yet. I thought he was going to out perform his draft position when he was talked about in the 8-14 range, and I hope I am correct in that assessment, but I think that there is a lot more good in this player that just hasn't been shown quite yet and we may have a player who is much better than we (or others) realize.
Think about what we have talked about with Strome - even though his on-ice vision has been lauded, he didn't have the defensive chops to stay in the NHL for extended amounts of time. Only at the end of this past year did we finally see the offense carry over into the NHL. Maybe there is something behind good defense leading to good offense, and while Hayton's CHL numbers didn't highlight an idea that he was a game-breaker, his abilities to literally play every position and know where everyone should be on the ice serves him well when continuing to progress against the highest levels of competition.
**** Totally obscure reference here, but when I was going to college, one of the players that had been signed in the recruiting class was quite unheralded coming out of high school. He was a good player, but didn't get the same recognition as other players, for whatever reason. But he had a skill set that continued to put him in strong positions overall. He was only considered a 3 star recruit and other similar players should have been far ahead of him on the depth chart, based on that alone.
That player was AJ Hawk:
A.J. Hawk, Centerville, Outside Linebacker
He wound up being the 5th overall pick in the NFL draft (irony of the 5th OA pick notwithstanding), but this is a player who by all accounts, wasn't as "elite" as people would have thought. He was the #24 ranked senior in the state of Ohio coming out of high school and turned into the 5th OA pick. Some players don't always fit the bill and become the guy immediately, but a player like Hawk played so many different positions in high school - defensive end, outside linebacker, inside linebacker, even some interior line work - that he knew what to do and where to be that he became that player that was always involved in plays. Just mentioning this seems so similar to how some scouts are talking about Hayton, where he just knows where to be and what to do so often that he comes away with the puck on his stick so often and will likely be that player that just continues to make good play after good play.****
Bottom line - I think that we are looking at a player that may not have that "it" factor in one area, but has that factor that is just below elite in so many areas but we haven't quite seen it shake out quite yet. I thought he was going to out perform his draft position when he was talked about in the 8-14 range, and I hope I am correct in that assessment, but I think that there is a lot more good in this player that just hasn't been shown quite yet and we may have a player who is much better than we (or others) realize.
As much as I'd have liked Zadina or one of the D prospects, I'm guessing that Kotkaniemi might have been our target (thinking Tkachuk and Zadina would be off the board). Personally, I wouldn't want Tkachuk, but Zadina is a tough pass. I suppose I would have preferred Evan Bouchard before Hayton, but probably would pass on Hughes, Boqvist, and Kravtsov (although I was interested).
Now, I wouldn't have minded Wahlstrom, but since he went the college route, we probably would have lost him if he spent more than two seasons.
Hayton probably would have gone before #10. Of course, it is what it is, and I gotta defer to Chayka until he proves otherwise. Hayton is fairly young and seems to have more long-term promise than Zadina (although I'd appreciate Zadina's short-term scoring contributions to the team in the next few seasons). Now, Bouchard is a different monster. Projecting 2-3 years ahead, I think Bouchard will make an earlier appearance in the NHL than Hayton and will probably have a decent long-term career (I think Hayton will have a decent NHL career too it's just going to take a few seasons).
Now, I wouldn't have minded Wahlstrom, but since he went the college route, we probably would have lost him if he spent more than two seasons.
Hayton probably would have gone before #10. Of course, it is what it is, and I gotta defer to Chayka until he proves otherwise. Hayton is fairly young and seems to have more long-term promise than Zadina (although I'd appreciate Zadina's short-term scoring contributions to the team in the next few seasons). Now, Bouchard is a different monster. Projecting 2-3 years ahead, I think Bouchard will make an earlier appearance in the NHL than Hayton and will probably have a decent long-term career (I think Hayton will have a decent NHL career too it's just going to take a few seasons).
Name Nameless
Don't go more than 10 seconds back on challenges
- Apr 12, 2017
- 6,571
- 3,044
BUX7PHX
Registered User
- Jul 7, 2011
- 5,581
- 1,350
I don't know if he is that much of a "numbers" guy though. Remember that Stathletes uses the video analysis to determine some quantitative measures to see how a player and his team stacks up for decision-making and what the outcome of that is. That may not translate into points, but let's say that a player's video shows that on average, the plays that are made add up to an additional 25% positive shot opportunities on offense. For a team like the Coyotes that has struggled to get shots (and good shots) over the years, if that means an additional 3-6 better shot opportunities a game, it means a lot to push a direction for offensive flow.
Again, I am kind of making up what contextual applications may be made here, but I think that if he was solely focused on numbers, then it is easy to take the player with the most points scored and call it a day. We didn't do that, so there is something else appealing in his play that moved him up our boards.
He played as a center, I doubt he was ever drafted to be one.Just to steal Cobra427's thunder: Keller was drafted as a C. Sorry Mac.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
Premium student.
Bouchard and Zadina
Bouchard and Zadina are both a year older and both have holes in their games that Hayton doesn’t have. I challenge you to watch 10 games of each player and factor in the age difference. Bouchard is soft, Zadina is selfish, Hayton is tough and skilled and unselfish.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
IPreferPi
A Nonny Mouse
A sniper who is selfish - news at 11.
Hayton may have the higher floor because of a more rounded game but at this point there's legitimate debate as to what his ceiling is. And it goes without saying that no player is a finished product as a draftee.
johnchayka89
Don’t Fail the Plan...
I’m good with this pick now that more information has been made available. Other than being just a good hockey player, Hayton is mature, professional and intelligent. That is extremely important when millions of dollars are invested in a player. Smart money doesn’t take on unnecessary risks. I wouldn’t either.
I thought Zadina’s comments about being passed on, etc were childish. Ya, he will mature, but that revealed his current character. That’s not something you say. These guys are prepped on how to speak... Zadina obviously marches to the beat of his own drum. 3 teams picking before us saw something they didn’t like.
Anyways, my gut tells me that Zadina didn’t want to go to the Coyotes. And he would have the balls to make that clear to us.
He wouldn’t have been the first one to not want to play here.
That is a reality we have to deal with because of our past reputation.
Hell, who would want to be drafted by one of the worst teams in the league? Financial issues? Possible relocation, etc?
I wish that information would surface one day so we can all put this “passing on Zadina”thing to bed.
I thought Zadina’s comments about being passed on, etc were childish. Ya, he will mature, but that revealed his current character. That’s not something you say. These guys are prepped on how to speak... Zadina obviously marches to the beat of his own drum. 3 teams picking before us saw something they didn’t like.
Anyways, my gut tells me that Zadina didn’t want to go to the Coyotes. And he would have the balls to make that clear to us.
He wouldn’t have been the first one to not want to play here.
That is a reality we have to deal with because of our past reputation.
Hell, who would want to be drafted by one of the worst teams in the league? Financial issues? Possible relocation, etc?
I wish that information would surface one day so we can all put this “passing on Zadina”thing to bed.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
I disagree with just about all of this post. Pat Kane and Alex Ovechkin have rings. These are goobers. Not even a little bit smart. Dumb as shit, really. Also, nowhere near approaching professional. They just get drunk in the streets and act like the moron meatheads they absolutely are. They also won championships and will be sure fire hall of famers.
Very much doubt “fill your nets with pucks” Zadina cared very much about which team took him. He’s got a massive chip. He wants to be taken the highest, be the best, and win the most. Yep. I’ll take that.
Or Hughes. Kid is an absolute artist.
It had the look of a great draft. The fact that Hayton was only the 11-14th best looking prospect on draft day really supports the narrative that it was a great draft. The fact that we passed on the 3rd/4th most exciting prospects in it (Zadina and Hughes) does nothing to hurt the quality of ththis draft. It just exposes some things about our management that we didn’t yet know.
You can choose to believe that kids with questionable character but good offence in JR will mature and fix the holes in their game. It might happen.
I choose to believe that a kid who has strong character and no holes in his game, and shows flashes of elite offensive skill stands a better chance.
The commitment it takes today to train 12 mos a year requires more character than ever before.
Ovi is a good example. He is a generational player, but it took him more than a decade to win the Cup. Crosby is a mature pro who has already won the cup 3 times. I’m not saying that this draft has guys on that level, but those are the prototypical contrasts.
You could be right. I have admitted I don't follow these kids until they get drafted, so I just rely on video and what I read. Zadina was the sexy pick, along with a few others, but time will tell who is right.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
Exactly. That one extra year may not seem like much, but at their stage of development and age it's big.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
It would if it were January 1st. I thought they chose September 15th so it wouldn’t. Also, what if Zadina started playing games at 5 but Hayton didn’t until 6? Still matter?
