Prospect Info: 47OA: Brady Cleveland

[TheOctopusKid]

Again, not knowing anything really about this pick or what his development is as I seem to be coming late to this party and was more curious why this prospect was generating so much thread activity.

... to those arguing that he has no offensive upside, is there anyone that's disagreeing? I think the point here is that he wasn't drafted for offense...?

If the critique here is that he has no offense but they have no intention on counting on his offense, why does it matter?

It seems they drafted him because

1) He's big and strong
2) He plays tough defense
3) He physical and hits

I would assume if they wanted offense they would've drafted a guy with more than 7 pts on the NDTP?

It really depends, and I still don't have a good answer here is... can he skate? Can he make a first pass? If he can do that, why do we care if he as 4pts on the season vs. 12 when we wanted him to hit people

 

[Gniwder]

Sure, but also how many here on HF boards actually scouted this player properly leading up to the 2023 draft to have an informed opinion on his play?

I'd reckon his coaches and the staff surrounding him (and the amateur scouts) have a greater deal of insight on what made this player such a "reach"

Of course, it remains to be seen if he's NHL bottom 4D worthy or just another big D that is AHL fodder

Stevie thought it was a reach, that's why he traded down from 43 to 47 before picking Cleveland. Pronman and Wheeler along with most scouts had him outside of the top 100.

He'll be lucky to even have an AHL career. There is a need for players like him in that league though.

I can't believe how many times I've had to type this on these forums:

They do not draft a player with the expectation that they are and will continue to be bad at hockey. They have a different opinion of him than you.

You don't draft kids that are bad at hockey in the first 3 rounds, because there are plenty of them that are actually good at it.

Yes.

Oscar Fisker-Molgaard would have been my pick. He's Swedish with a hyphenated name and played in the SHL in that draft season. What more could you ask for? Then we'd have ASP, MBN, OFM, NDN and LDN.

 

[Frk It]

Again, not knowing anything really about this pick or what his development is as I seem to be coming late to this party and was more curious why this prospect was generating so much thread activity.

... to those arguing that he has no offensive upside, is there anyone that's disagreeing? I think the point here is that he wasn't drafted for offense...?

If the critique here is that he has no offense but they have no intention on counting on his offense, why does it matter?

It seems they drafted him because

1) He's big and strong
2) He plays tough defense
3) He physical and hits

I would assume if they wanted offense they would've drafted a guy with more than 7 pts on the NDTP?

It really depends, and I still don't have a good answer here is... can he skate? Can he make a first pass? If he can do that, why do we care if he as 4pts on the season vs. 12 when we wanted him to hit people

You have to have a certain level of offensive ability to be an NHL player. This is 2024, it’s not the 80’s or 90’s.

He can be good in all 3 areas you mention but if he doesn’t have at least a competent offensive game he will be lucky to be another Dylan McIlrath.

I would not draft a lot of these types of guys, but if I was going to I would probably stick to drafting them in rounds 5-7. Like Phelan is not the type of player I would gravitate towards, but when it’s a 5th rounder, ok whatever.

The value proposition with this pick is and will continue to be the issue.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Montreal, Buffalo and Anaheim come to mind.

Buffalo's group is really good and further ahead in terms of experience. Not a Byram fan and I like Ed more than Power. Montreal's group is young and good, I'll take Ed and ASP over at least two of them. Anaheim same boat, they're all young and promising, I'll take the Wings' group. The Wings are deeper than just their top three, too. But sure, those three teams are also leoaded with good young skilled D, debatable whose is the best group, or will be in three years.

 

[izlez]

You don't draft kids that are bad at hockey in the first 3 rounds, because there are plenty of them that are actually good at it.

I'm not sure you are grasping it: They did not draft a player they thought is bad at hockey.


Plenty of players in the top 3 rounds turn out to be bad at hockey. Nobody drafts them on purpose. Whole careers are based on figuring out if these guys are good at hockey or not.

Just because you have the opinion that one of the players drafted is bad at hockey does not make it reality.

 

[norrisnick]

Again, not knowing anything really about this pick or what his development is as I seem to be coming late to this party and was more curious why this prospect was generating so much thread activity.

... to those arguing that he has no offensive upside, is there anyone that's disagreeing? I think the point here is that he wasn't drafted for offense...?

If the critique here is that he has no offense but they have no intention on counting on his offense, why does it matter?

It seems they drafted him because

1) He's big and strong
2) He plays tough defense
3) He physical and hits

I would assume if they wanted offense they would've drafted a guy with more than 7 pts on the NDTP?

It really depends, and I still don't have a good answer here is... can he skate? Can he make a first pass? If he can do that, why do we care if he as 4pts on the season vs. 12 when we wanted him to hit people

A defenseman that can't move the puck effectively is just a bad defenseman. People aren't clamoring for Paul Coffey, but a guy that can make a controlled zone exit should be getting secondary assists on accident. He only had one more assist than the USNTDP goalie.

 

[Gniwder]

I'm not sure you are grasping it: They did not draft a player they thought is bad at hockey.


Plenty of players in the top 3 rounds turn out to be bad at hockey. Nobody drafts them on purpose. Whole careers are based on figuring out if these guys are good at hockey or not.

Just because you have the opinion that one of the players drafted is bad at hockey does not make it reality.

He was 7th D on his team in his draft year. If he's not good enough to start every game for the USNDT in his draft year, then he's not good at hockey. So obviously the coach had the same opinion, you know, the guy that watches him most. Even more than the Wings scout.

I've never seen a team draft a backup player out of USNDT in the first 2 rounds, and I'm not even sure a team has bothered to draft one in ANY round before.

 

[rawraw]

It is perplexing why he was picked where he was and he shouldn't have been.... But whatever you want to tell yourself, I guess.

It’s perplexing to you, but not to those who actually scouted him and watched him play. He shouldn’t have been picked where he has according to…? I remember people saying Seider shouldn’t have been picked where he was picked either. Not comparing him to Seider, but you get the point.
USNTDP seemed to like him as well, even though he has the “puck handling skills of a goalie”. This is a big, tough, physical kid with a mean streak that can defend and skate. He doesn’t need to put up points in order to impact games. People get too hung up on draft position. If an NHL GM likes a player, they will grab that player, regardless of where he was ranked by some draft pundits. Happens each and every year.

 

[Frk It]

It’s perplexing to you, but not to those who actually scouted him and watched him play. He shouldn’t have been picked where he has according to…? I remember people saying Seider shouldn’t have been picked where he was picked either. Not comparing him to Seider, but you get the point.
USNTDP seemed to like him as well, even though he has the “puck handling skills of a goalie”. This is a big, tough, physical kid with a mean streak that can defend and skate. He doesn’t need to put up points in order to impact games. People get too hung up on draft position. If an NHL GM likes a player, they will grab that player, regardless of where he was ranked by some draft pundits. Happens each and every year.

The USDP liked him? Why didn’t they put him on the power play or give him more minutes?

Did Wisconsin like him? Cause they barely played him either.

This is nothing like the Seider pick and I never crushed that pick. I also defended the Mazur pick when a lot of people were shitting on it.

Hate to break it to you though, this was a just a stupid/bad pick. I don’t expect our scouts to be infallible but this is easily the most questionable pick we have made under this regime.

 

[Gniwder]

It’s perplexing to you, but not to those who actually scouted him and watched him play. He shouldn’t have been picked where he has according to…? I remember people saying Seider shouldn’t have been picked where he was picked either. Not comparing him to Seider, but you get the point.
USNTDP seemed to like him as well, even though he has the “puck handling skills of a goalie”. This is a big, tough, physical kid with a mean streak that can defend and skate. He doesn’t need to put up points in order to impact games. People get too hung up on draft position. If an NHL GM likes a player, they will grab that player, regardless of where he was ranked by some draft pundits. Happens each and every year.

Dude, he didn't even start every game. Cleveland was ranked much lower by every scout that publishes rankings. It was a huge reach and a really bad pick.

It's not a requirement to defend every management decision to be a Red Wings fan. Obviously they've made some bad decisions. This is one of them.

 

[rawraw]

The USDP liked him? Why didn’t they put him on the power play or give him more minutes?

Did Wisconsin like him? Cause they barely played him either.

This is nothing like the Seider pick and I never crushed that pick. I also defended the Mazur pick when a lot of people were shitting on it.

Hate to break it to you though, this was a just a stupid/bad pick. I don’t expect our scouts to be infallible but this is easily the most questionable pick we have made under this regime.

Why didn’t they put him on the power play? Because that’s not his calling card, never will be either. Different players impact the game in different ways, not everybody needs to be a Makar.

 

[rawraw]

Dude, he didn't even start every game. Cleveland was ranked much lower by every scout that publishes rankings. It was a huge reach and a really bad pick.

It's not a requirement to defend every management decision to be a Red Wings fan. Obviously they've made some bad decisions. This is one of them.

I couldn’t care less about defending every management decision, teams make mistakes all the time. That wasn’t the point. Fans want to draft offensive wizards with each and every pick. NHL GMs don’t build teams that way.

 

[Gniwder]

I couldn’t care less about defending every management decision, teams make mistakes all the time. That wasn’t the point. Fans want to draft offensive wizards with each and every pick. NHL GMs don’t build teams that way.

Players can always be traded. Enforcer types are always available in free agency as well. Look at how many teams Reaves, Maroon, Zadarov, and Gudas have played for.

The second round is way too early to pick a kid with limited potential and only one good attribute. If Draper had picked Oscar Fisker-Molgaard instead, we've be having a positive discussion instead, much like Augustine.

Aside from that, Draper had already picked 2 defensemen in the draft, along with a center and a goalie. A scoring winger would have made sense even from a need perspective. Draper wound up using the first 2 picks the next draft to select wingers, so the need was obviously there.

 

[Frk It]

Why didn’t they put him on the power play? Because that’s not his calling card, never will be either. Different players impact the game in different ways, not everybody needs to be a Makar.

Pick a defensive defenseman currently in the NHL. I will bet they probably played on the power play at lower levels and showed some level of offensive ability.

Guys that have absolutely 0 offensive games at lower levels don’t make it to the NHL.