Prospect Info: 47OA: Brady Cleveland

[TheOctopusKid]

Again, not knowing anything really about this pick or what his development is as I seem to be coming late to this party and was more curious why this prospect was generating so much thread activity.

... to those arguing that he has no offensive upside, is there anyone that's disagreeing? I think the point here is that he wasn't drafted for offense...?

If the critique here is that he has no offense but they have no intention on counting on his offense, why does it matter?

It seems they drafted him because

1) He's big and strong
2) He plays tough defense
3) He physical and hits

I would assume if they wanted offense they would've drafted a guy with more than 7 pts on the NDTP?

It really depends, and I still don't have a good answer here is... can he skate? Can he make a first pass? If he can do that, why do we care if he as 4pts on the season vs. 12 when we wanted him to hit people

 

[Gniwder]

Sure, but also how many here on HF boards actually scouted this player properly leading up to the 2023 draft to have an informed opinion on his play?

I'd reckon his coaches and the staff surrounding him (and the amateur scouts) have a greater deal of insight on what made this player such a "reach"

Of course, it remains to be seen if he's NHL bottom 4D worthy or just another big D that is AHL fodder

Stevie thought it was a reach, that's why he traded down from 43 to 47 before picking Cleveland. Pronman and Wheeler along with most scouts had him outside of the top 100.

He'll be lucky to even have an AHL career. There is a need for players like him in that league though.

I can't believe how many times I've had to type this on these forums:

They do not draft a player with the expectation that they are and will continue to be bad at hockey. They have a different opinion of him than you.

You don't draft kids that are bad at hockey in the first 3 rounds, because there are plenty of them that are actually good at it.

Yes.

Oscar Fisker-Molgaard would have been my pick. He's Swedish with a hyphenated name and played in the SHL in that draft season. What more could you ask for? Then we'd have ASP, MBN, OFM, NDN and LDN.

 

[Frk It]

Again, not knowing anything really about this pick or what his development is as I seem to be coming late to this party and was more curious why this prospect was generating so much thread activity.

... to those arguing that he has no offensive upside, is there anyone that's disagreeing? I think the point here is that he wasn't drafted for offense...?

If the critique here is that he has no offense but they have no intention on counting on his offense, why does it matter?

It seems they drafted him because

1) He's big and strong
2) He plays tough defense
3) He physical and hits

I would assume if they wanted offense they would've drafted a guy with more than 7 pts on the NDTP?

It really depends, and I still don't have a good answer here is... can he skate? Can he make a first pass? If he can do that, why do we care if he as 4pts on the season vs. 12 when we wanted him to hit people

You have to have a certain level of offensive ability to be an NHL player. This is 2024, it’s not the 80’s or 90’s.

He can be good in all 3 areas you mention but if he doesn’t have at least a competent offensive game he will be lucky to be another Dylan McIlrath.

I would not draft a lot of these types of guys, but if I was going to I would probably stick to drafting them in rounds 5-7. Like Phelan is not the type of player I would gravitate towards, but when it’s a 5th rounder, ok whatever.

The value proposition with this pick is and will continue to be the issue.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Montreal, Buffalo and Anaheim come to mind.

Buffalo's group is really good and further ahead in terms of experience. Not a Byram fan and I like Ed more than Power. Montreal's group is young and good, I'll take Ed and ASP over at least two of them. Anaheim same boat, they're all young and promising, I'll take the Wings' group. The Wings are deeper than just their top three, too. But sure, those three teams are also leoaded with good young skilled D, debatable whose is the best group, or will be in three years.

 

[izlez]

You don't draft kids that are bad at hockey in the first 3 rounds, because there are plenty of them that are actually good at it.

I'm not sure you are grasping it: They did not draft a player they thought is bad at hockey.


Plenty of players in the top 3 rounds turn out to be bad at hockey. Nobody drafts them on purpose. Whole careers are based on figuring out if these guys are good at hockey or not.

Just because you have the opinion that one of the players drafted is bad at hockey does not make it reality.

 

[norrisnick]

Again, not knowing anything really about this pick or what his development is as I seem to be coming late to this party and was more curious why this prospect was generating so much thread activity.

... to those arguing that he has no offensive upside, is there anyone that's disagreeing? I think the point here is that he wasn't drafted for offense...?

If the critique here is that he has no offense but they have no intention on counting on his offense, why does it matter?

It seems they drafted him because

1) He's big and strong
2) He plays tough defense
3) He physical and hits

I would assume if they wanted offense they would've drafted a guy with more than 7 pts on the NDTP?

It really depends, and I still don't have a good answer here is... can he skate? Can he make a first pass? If he can do that, why do we care if he as 4pts on the season vs. 12 when we wanted him to hit people

A defenseman that can't move the puck effectively is just a bad defenseman. People aren't clamoring for Paul Coffey, but a guy that can make a controlled zone exit should be getting secondary assists on accident. He only had one more assist than the USNTDP goalie.

 

[Gniwder]

I'm not sure you are grasping it: They did not draft a player they thought is bad at hockey.


Plenty of players in the top 3 rounds turn out to be bad at hockey. Nobody drafts them on purpose. Whole careers are based on figuring out if these guys are good at hockey or not.

Just because you have the opinion that one of the players drafted is bad at hockey does not make it reality.

He was 7th D on his team in his draft year. If he's not good enough to start every game for the USNDT in his draft year, then he's not good at hockey. So obviously the coach had the same opinion, you know, the guy that watches him most. Even more than the Wings scout.

I've never seen a team draft a backup player out of USNDT in the first 2 rounds, and I'm not even sure a team has bothered to draft one in ANY round before.

 

[rawraw]

It is perplexing why he was picked where he was and he shouldn't have been.... But whatever you want to tell yourself, I guess.

It’s perplexing to you, but not to those who actually scouted him and watched him play. He shouldn’t have been picked where he has according to…? I remember people saying Seider shouldn’t have been picked where he was picked either. Not comparing him to Seider, but you get the point.
USNTDP seemed to like him as well, even though he has the “puck handling skills of a goalie”. This is a big, tough, physical kid with a mean streak that can defend and skate. He doesn’t need to put up points in order to impact games. People get too hung up on draft position. If an NHL GM likes a player, they will grab that player, regardless of where he was ranked by some draft pundits. Happens each and every year.

 

[Frk It]

It’s perplexing to you, but not to those who actually scouted him and watched him play. He shouldn’t have been picked where he has according to…? I remember people saying Seider shouldn’t have been picked where he was picked either. Not comparing him to Seider, but you get the point.
USNTDP seemed to like him as well, even though he has the “puck handling skills of a goalie”. This is a big, tough, physical kid with a mean streak that can defend and skate. He doesn’t need to put up points in order to impact games. People get too hung up on draft position. If an NHL GM likes a player, they will grab that player, regardless of where he was ranked by some draft pundits. Happens each and every year.

The USDP liked him? Why didn’t they put him on the power play or give him more minutes?

Did Wisconsin like him? Cause they barely played him either.

This is nothing like the Seider pick and I never crushed that pick. I also defended the Mazur pick when a lot of people were shitting on it.

Hate to break it to you though, this was a just a stupid/bad pick. I don’t expect our scouts to be infallible but this is easily the most questionable pick we have made under this regime.

 

[Gniwder]

It’s perplexing to you, but not to those who actually scouted him and watched him play. He shouldn’t have been picked where he has according to…? I remember people saying Seider shouldn’t have been picked where he was picked either. Not comparing him to Seider, but you get the point.
USNTDP seemed to like him as well, even though he has the “puck handling skills of a goalie”. This is a big, tough, physical kid with a mean streak that can defend and skate. He doesn’t need to put up points in order to impact games. People get too hung up on draft position. If an NHL GM likes a player, they will grab that player, regardless of where he was ranked by some draft pundits. Happens each and every year.

Dude, he didn't even start every game. Cleveland was ranked much lower by every scout that publishes rankings. It was a huge reach and a really bad pick.

It's not a requirement to defend every management decision to be a Red Wings fan. Obviously they've made some bad decisions. This is one of them.

 

[rawraw]

The USDP liked him? Why didn’t they put him on the power play or give him more minutes?

Did Wisconsin like him? Cause they barely played him either.

This is nothing like the Seider pick and I never crushed that pick. I also defended the Mazur pick when a lot of people were shitting on it.

Hate to break it to you though, this was a just a stupid/bad pick. I don’t expect our scouts to be infallible but this is easily the most questionable pick we have made under this regime.

Why didn’t they put him on the power play? Because that’s not his calling card, never will be either. Different players impact the game in different ways, not everybody needs to be a Makar.

 

[rawraw]

Dude, he didn't even start every game. Cleveland was ranked much lower by every scout that publishes rankings. It was a huge reach and a really bad pick.

It's not a requirement to defend every management decision to be a Red Wings fan. Obviously they've made some bad decisions. This is one of them.

I couldn’t care less about defending every management decision, teams make mistakes all the time. That wasn’t the point. Fans want to draft offensive wizards with each and every pick. NHL GMs don’t build teams that way.

 

[Gniwder]

I couldn’t care less about defending every management decision, teams make mistakes all the time. That wasn’t the point. Fans want to draft offensive wizards with each and every pick. NHL GMs don’t build teams that way.

Players can always be traded. Enforcer types are always available in free agency as well. Look at how many teams Reaves, Maroon, Zadarov, and Gudas have played for.

The second round is way too early to pick a kid with limited potential and only one good attribute. If Draper had picked Oscar Fisker-Molgaard instead, we've be having a positive discussion instead, much like Augustine.

Aside from that, Draper had already picked 2 defensemen in the draft, along with a center and a goalie. A scoring winger would have made sense even from a need perspective. Draper wound up using the first 2 picks the next draft to select wingers, so the need was obviously there.

 

[Frk It]

Why didn’t they put him on the power play? Because that’s not his calling card, never will be either. Different players impact the game in different ways, not everybody needs to be a Makar.

Pick a defensive defenseman currently in the NHL. I will bet they probably played on the power play at lower levels and showed some level of offensive ability.

Guys that have absolutely 0 offensive games at lower levels don’t make it to the NHL.

 

[RRhoads]

I hope he can turn into a 6th D who can kill penalties and fight off players like the Tkachucks of the league.

 

[norrisnick]

I hope he can turn into a 6th D who can kill penalties and fight off players like the Tkachucks of the league.

Are there any Tkachuks in the ECHL?

 

[RRhoads]

Are there any Tkachuks in the ECHL?

I didn't mean literal Tkachucks, I meant players that like to cause shit after the whistle.

 

[HoweFan]

I love all the attention Brady is getting. By the time he gets to Detroit he will be a legend. In fact I think we should retire his sweater now and hang it in the rafters

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Pick a defensive defenseman currently in the NHL. I will bet they probably played on the power play at lower levels and showed some level of offensive ability.

Guys that have absolutely 0 offensive games at lower levels don’t make it to the NHL.

Well that's what Brady did also. Just two years before being drafted he was one of the leading scorers for good old Wausau West HS Warriors. He'd been considered one of the more talented Minor Hockey defensemen in Wisconsin in addition to being a high scoring D in HS, before joining the USNTDP program. It's not like USNTDP is hard up for candidates, though I have no idea what their selection process is. I'm guessing someone there thought he had enough skill for the role they had in mind for him. As far as U18 GP is concerned, in his Draft year he played 55 games, only eight fewer than the most GP played by anyone. Why assume he missed those games because he sucked, rather than perhaps not feeling well, injured or just to give a U17 player a look?

The entire narrative that low NCAA points equates not enough relevant skill does not work for every player and every role. Ryan Lindgren didn't get to double digit points in either of his two NCAA seasons. There are numerous CHL defensemen who weren't getting PP time until perhaps their final season, or putting up a lot of points, yet made the NHL. Undoubtedly most of them were productive at lower levels, just like Brady was.

 

[Filppula]

If he said he wanted to be an offensive dynamo you’d hold that against him too.

Where did I bag the guy? You’re taking the wrong meaning.

I simply meant we drafted a guy who he himself admits has a pretty low ceiling. I’d much prefer we swing for the fences at a boom or bust type than go for a guy who at the very best scenario makes a 3rd pair.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Which way did they expect it to go? The kid was not good enough to get a PP role or sizable role on a USDP team that probably was icing the worst blue line it has had in 10+ years.

Most if not all of the guys who are defensive defenseman at the NHl level usually showed some level of offense at the lower levels. This kid has never showed any offensive ability whatsoever anywhere he has played.

I'm sure they thought he was buried and would look better with more opportunity. But, yeah, not so much. Not every depth player is a Larkin waiting for their big chance.

 

[Filppula]

You mean a player understanding his skill set, role and worth to a team via an honest self assessment, after gaining insight from coaches and experts, then expressing it, is stunning to you?! For me, it is no more stunning that Danny DeVito saying he wasn't right for the Tom Cruise role in Top Gun.


I could post in scouting report after scouting report on the guy and they all say the same thing. I'll stick with NTDP, his role there and his role in the USHL.


“The best word I can use to describe Brady is tough,” NTDP head coach Dan Muse told The Rink Live. “He’s a crazy tough kid and if you’re ever on the ice when he is, you have to keep your head up. Whether you’ve played against him before or it’s your first shift, you find out pretty quickly who he is because he doesn’t shy away from that physical element.


“You just don’t see many kids play like he does in today’s game and when you do have someone like Brady, it impacts the entire lineup. But I think the other big thing with Brady is his play in his own end. He’s got a great stick, he kills plays, he can skate and I thought he did a really good job moving pucks up for us. Plus he was someone we trusted a lot on the penalty kill. So with all of those and his physical element, he can add a dynamic that not every team has.”

“I’ve coached against Brady for a while now and he knows his identity and plays it well,” said one opposing USHL coach. “I think his overall game has come a long way but he’s one of the better tough, stay-at-home defensemen we saw this season and he’s extremely hard to play against. I think his skill has gotten better too, but he’s a force on the back end and that’s the type of guy teams love to have back there.”

“He’s just an old-school defenseman and he’s somebody you don’t want to mess with,” added another USHL coach. “He’s really good at killing plays in the corner. He’s a good north-south skater for a big man. And he’s not afraid to block shots.”

“The physicality is his calling card and he’s done a good job with it,” said one NHL scout. “He’s a big kid, really tall, and I just remember when they first brought him up last year to the U18s he just hit everything that moved. Everybody knew he wasn’t ever going to pass up a check and I think he started off that way this year too, but he really started to evolve his game and play a more calculated role as the season went along.

“He still plays with that edge and physical style, which has gotten him to this point. But I think you saw him picking his spots more and playing a better two-way defensive game which is only going to help him going forward.”

https://www.therinklive.com/junior-and-prospects/ushl/nhl-draft-countdown-no-15-brady-cleveland-d-ntdp

Again, wrong meaning, what’s stunning is not his factual appraisal of his outlook, but that we took a guy in the second round who has such a low ceiling. And stunning (there’s that word again) that we felt he wouldn’t have been around later.