Prospect Info: 47OA: Brady Cleveland

[Gniwder]

Oh , it was a lot of complaining about Mazur, based on Draper connection

It was only a couple of guys that just posted a lot. You guys seemed to get confused, so let me clear it up...

A lot of posts by one person does not mean the same as a lot posters posting once.

 

[Gniwder]

People bitch all the time about the Wings needing to get tougher. Unfortunately, they expect the tough guy to be a 30 goal scorer. Don't blame the athlete for where he was chosen. Lets see where he is in 4 years.

More strawman. Nobody expects a physical defenseman picked in the second round to score 30 goals. We just expect second rounders to have better NHL probability.

If Cleveland gets picked in the 5th round, nobody cares, because he's not Draper's son.

 

[RabidBadger]

It was only a couple of guys that just posted a lot. You guys seemed to get confused, so let me clear it up...

A lot of posts by one person does not mean the same as a lot posters posting once.

That's some history revision there. The Carter Mazur thread is on the 3rd page of this forum. Read the first few pages and count the negative comments vs the laudatory comments. People didn't come around to that pick until he was well into the season at Denver.

Honestly, I don't even know why I cared enough to post that response. I guess my avatar tag line says it all.

 

[RabidBadger]

Wings had a ton of picks and had already landed the guys they wanted. They figured they could waste a mid-2nd on the 1% chance this guy works out.

Picks past 40 aren't worth getting upset about.

I don't know; I'm not trying to split hairs but I think you can get more reliable value in the first two rounds but I do agree with your premise.

I hope your message resonates with the Kienan Draper haters on this board. Personally, I wouldn't give a shit if they drafted Al Sabotka or Karen Newman at Kienan's spot, but hey, some people...I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Gniwder]

That's some history revision there. The Carter Mazur thread is on the 3rd page of this forum. Read the first few pages and count the negative comments vs the laudatory comments. People didn't come around to that pick until he was well into the season at Denver.

Honestly, I don't even know why I cared enough to post that response. I guess my avatar tag line says it all.

Negative posts because of where he was picked. Read the posts again, NOBODY said he'd be available as UFA, all the hater comments were because he was picked in the 3rd round.

Besides, it's not like finding an undersized bottom 6 forward in the 3rd round is some sort of major victory. This team needs top 6 forwards, not bottom 6. The complaint is that Stevie and Draper are using high end picks for low potential prospects. If you read my comment, I don;t care as much past the second round.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

I don't know; I'm not trying to split hairs but I think you can get more reliable value in the first two rounds but I do agree with your premise.

I hope your message resonates with the Kienan Draper haters on this board. Personally, I wouldn't give a shit if they drafted Al Sabotka or Karen Newman at Kienan's spot, but hey, some people...I'll just leave it at that.

Oh, I 100% believe there is some weird nepotism going on with kids that Draper knows/coached/spawned, but I also don't care and pretty much every NHL team does that kind of stuff.

It's just part of the "bros club" ethos that permeates the NHL and giving little gifts like drafting players' kids makes you look like a good place to play.

 

[RabidBadger]

Negative posts because of where he was picked. Read the posts again, NOBODY said he'd be available as UFA, all the hater comments were because he was picked in the 3rd round.

Besides, it's not like finding an undersized bottom 6 forward in the 3rd round is some sort of major victory. This team needs top 6 forwards, not bottom 6. The complaint is that Stevie and Draper are using high end picks for low potential prospects. If you read my comment, I don;t care as much past the second round.

Okay, you're saying Mazur as a third rounder is a nothing burger then saying you don't care what happens after the second round. Which is it? Beside that you're moving the goal posts...you said it was only one or two people who didn't like the pick when it was obviously a majority of the posters when the selection was made. Read your post at the top of this page. I also didn't say anything about him available as a UFA...read my response to your post. But you are correct, NOBODY did say he would be available as a UFA.

And you state the complaint is using "high end picks for low potential prospects"...you think picking 47th, where Cleveland was picked, is a high end spot? Who the hell slaps high fives saying, "yes, we get to pick 47th"!

 

[Dotter]

More strawman. Nobody expects a physical defenseman picked in the second round to score 30 goals. We just expect second rounders to have better NHL probability.

If Cleveland gets picked in the 5th round, nobody cares, because he's not Draper's son.

Ikr, could have drafted the next almighty Gustav Lindstrom instead of wasting that pick on a mean SOB monster that, if in the unlikely scenario pans out, could be the meanest dman in the league to play against!

What's Gustav Lindstrom up to these days? Saving any franchises?

Stay soft, Detroit

.

 

[Gniwder]

Okay, you're saying Mazur as a third rounder is a nothing burger then saying you don't care what happens after the second round. Which is it? Beside that you're moving the goal posts...you said it was only one or two people who didn't like the pick when it was obviously a majority of the posters when the selection was made.

And you state the complaint is using "high end picks for low potential prospects"...you think picking 47th, where Cleveland was picked, is a high end spot? Who the hell slaps high fives saying, "yes, we get to pick 47th"!

Scroll back a page, the argument started when I called out newfy for his strawman argument that people were saying that Mazur and Bert would have been available in UFA. I'm not moving the goalpost at all, I'm actually just returning it to where it was.

I'd like to see better picks with second round picks. Obviously others here would like to see better picks with third rounders as well. I have my personal reasons, I just don't have time to research past top 50 prospects.

Ikr, could have drafted the next almighty Gustav Lindstrom instead of wasting that pick on a mean SOB monster that, if in the unlikely scenario pans out, could be the meanest dman in the league to play against!

What's Gustav Lindstrom up to these days? Saving any franchises?

Stay soft, Detroit

.

The preference on this board is kids that can score, I remember Jason Robertson was mentioned BEFORE the draft.

 

[RabidBadger]

Scroll back a page, the argument started when I called out newfy for his strawman argument that people were saying that Mazur and Bert would have been available in UFA. I'm not moving the goalpost at all, I'm actually just returning it to where it was.

I'd like to see better picks with second round picks. Obviously others here would like to see better picks with third rounders as well. I have my personal reasons, I just don't have time to research past top 50 prospects.


Scroll back a page, the argument started when I called out newfy for his strawman argument that people were saying that Mazur and Bert would have been available in UFA. I'm not moving the goalpost at all, I'm actually just returning it to where it was.

I'd like to see better picks with second round picks. Obviously others here would like to see better picks with third rounders as well. I have my personal reasons, I just don't have time to research past top 50 prospects

The preference on this board is kids that can score, I remember Jason Robertson was mentioned BEFORE the draft.

I'm sorry, I can't continue this because I have an overwhelming need to follow the conversation on hand and make sense. Have a good night.

 

[Dotter]

The preference on this board is kids that can score, I remember Jason Robertson was mentioned BEFORE the draft.

The fact that you have to go back 7 years to find a 2nd round steal is an example how improbable it is.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Scroll back a page, the argument started when I called out newfy for his strawman argument that people were saying that Mazur and Bert would have been available in UFA. I'm not moving the goalpost at all, I'm actually just returning it to where it was.

I'd like to see better picks with second round picks. Obviously others here would like to see better picks with third rounders as well. I have my personal reasons, I just don't have time to research past top 50 prospects.




The preference on this board is kids that can score, I remember Jason Robertson was mentioned BEFORE the draft.

You're focusing on the "UFA" aspect of the criticism about some picks because of a comment by Newfy, which he tried to clarify was not the best choice of words. Hyperbole, whoopee. The only draftee I can remember being described as likely available as a freebie was Draper. Maybe Mike McKee too. Almost all the criticism about Bert, Mazur, Cleveland, Lindstrom, Tuomisto and others was that they were picked too early. Which is true for almost all prospects that don't pan out. Most of the guys drafted should never have been drafted at all, but we get seven rounds to maybe get lucky. If we limited the Draft to only those who aren't going to be chosen too early, or only a little bit early, we'd have a Draft of about 50 total players every year.

There is a general preference on this board for anyone who can score, not just kids. A 50-point perimeter PP2 winger who doesn't hit anyone will generally be preferred over a 35-40 poiint heavy guy who PKs.

 

[Gniwder]

I'm sorry, I can't continue this because I have an overwhelming need to follow the conversation on hand and make sense. Have a good night.

You mean an overwhelming desire to butt into a conversation without actually going back and understanding the context. Thanks for stopping by, I'm sure you'll do it again because that's your MO.

 

[Gniwder]

You're focusing on the "UFA" aspect of the criticism about some picks because of a comment by Newfy, which he tried to clarify was not the best choice of words. Hyperbole, whoopee.

Well that was my response, too many strawman arguments here.

Most of the guys saying they were picked too early is because they're looking at prospect rankings. I say too early because there were other prospects I would have rather picked. That's also the reason why I don't complain as much past the second round, I don't do research past the top 50 or so.

Draper picking his kid though, talk about nepotism of epic proportion. I found it funny that people would defend that pick at all. Now to be fair to his kids, he's gonna have to pick his daughter too.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Well that was my response, too many strawman arguments here.

Most of the guys saying they were picked too early is because they're looking at prospect rankings. I say too early because there were other prospects I would have rather picked. That's also the reason why I don't complain as much past the second round, I don't do research past the top 50 or so.

Draper picking his kid though, talk about nepotism of epic proportion. I found it funny that people would defend that pick at all. Now to be fair to his kids, he's gonna have to pick his daughter too.

The really funny thing about Draper drafting Kienan is that Mazur was also available and despite knowing Mazur really well, he still picked his kid over him. He could have avoided all the heat about the nepo pick AND using "too early" a pick the next year, and gotten more credit, if he'd used that 2020 7th rounder on Mazur. Maybe Kienan only scoring seven points in 37 USHL games the next year would have had somebody responding to Draper's advocacy for drafting his kid a year later with a "Hang on chief, we can sign him anytime because no one's ever going to draft him."

 

[Gniwder]

The really funny thing about Draper drafting Kienan is that Mazur was also available and despite knowing Mazur really well, he still picked his kid over him. He could have avoided all the heat about the nepo pick AND using "too early" a pick the next year, and gotten more credit, if he'd used that 2020 7th rounder on Mazur. Maybe Kienan only scoring seven points in 37 USHL games the next year would have had somebody responding to Draper's advocacy for drafting his kid a year later with a "Hang on chief, we can sign him anytime because no one's ever going to draft him."

That is an interesting take, for sure everyone would be praising Draper had he picked Mazur with a 7th rounder. 7th round picks usually don't even become AHL regulars.

 

[HoweFan]

Personally I don’t care if he even owns a stick. I just want him to sit on the bench and snarl.

 

[Oddbob]

Personally I don’t care if he even owns a stick. I just want him to sit on the bench and snarl.

Make him assistant coach of meanness!

 

[norrisnick]

Remember that game that Ryan Barnes played without ever taking a shift? Pepperidge Farms remembers...

edit, apologies to Barnes. He had one 14 second shift.
edit 2 for memes, he coached (assistant) Zach Kassian in the OHL...

 

[heyfolks]

You mean an overwhelming desire to butt into a conversation without actually going back and understanding the context. Thanks for stopping by, I'm sure you'll do it again because that's your MO.

You rag on me routinely, which is part of the fun (at least for me). That said, you can jump on me for every post, under one condition..... DO NOT CHANGE THAT AVATAR! It is the most classic piece of work in this area in recent times and has to be top 3 all time...... In fact, when we hit early August, that should be a poll. Rank the current and best every avatars. Sure, its immature, pathetic even. That's all I've got. Well, you know that.


As for DJ (Draper Junior), this was his last game of the year highlight.

 

[Gniwder]

You rag on me routinely, which is part of the fun (at least for me). That said, you can jump on me for every post, under one condition..... DO NOT CHANGE THAT AVATAR! It is the most classic piece of work in this area in recent times and has to be top 3 all time...... In fact, when we hit early August, that should be a poll. Rank the current and best every avatars. Sure, its immature, pathetic even. That's all I've got. Well, you know that.


As for DJ (Draper Junior), this was his last game of the year highlight.


View attachment 852098

I'm just opinionated (stating the obvious), nothing personal. I don't hold grudges, if someone posts comments I agree with, I'll hit the like button even if it's NorissNick.

Anyways, thanks for the compliment. I'll leave it up unless they make the playoffs and win the first round.

 

[newfy]

People bitch all the time about the Wings needing to get tougher. Unfortunately, they expect the tough guy to be a 30 goal scorer. Don't blame the athlete for where he was chosen. Lets see where he is in 4 years.

Its actually really funny, its like theres this split on this board. People who want a tougher team and people who want skilled only players. These people were fine with trotting out guys like Joakin Andersson, Emmerton, Drew Miller etc etc for years on the bottom lines, but as soon as you talk about adding a tough player, it was all about how they need to be able to score 20 goals in the top 6... as if half those line ups werent horrible.

CHristopher Ehn making opening day but tough players have to score 20. It still doesnt make sense

More strawman. Nobody expects a physical defenseman picked in the second round to score 30 goals. We just expect second rounders to have better NHL probability.

If Cleveland gets picked in the 5th round, nobody cares, because he's not Draper's son.

Not more strawman at all, did you just learn that word or something? Youre throwing it around a lot for non-strawmen. Read this thread and tell me it was one person being negative about Mazur. 1st comment is about how big of a reach it was, 2nd post is about how Draper should get fired for drafting Mazur (a post that you liked LOL),

Prospect Info: - #70 - Carter Mazur (LW)

Carter Mazur (LW) 6'0 / 168 lbs Tri-City Storm, USHL Heading to the University of Denver for 2021-2022 Profile: Carter Mazur at eliteprospects.com

forums.hfboards.com

Scroll back a page, the argument started when I called out newfy for his strawman argument that people were saying that Mazur and Bert would have been available in UFA.

Lol... I've already said it might've been phrased weird but I was talking about Bertuzzi with the UDFA comment, not Mazur. Stop reading your word of the day calendar with strawman on it and read the posts youre replying to

 

[Gniwder]

Its actually really funny, its like theres this split on this board. People who want a tougher team and people who want skilled only players. These people were fine with trotting out guys like Joakin Andersson, Emmerton, Drew Miller etc etc for years on the bottom lines, but as soon as you talk about adding a tough player, it was all about how they need to be able to score 20 goals in the top 6... as if half those line ups werent horrible.

CHristopher Ehn making opening day but tough players have to score 20. It still doesnt make sense

Not more strawman at all, did you just learn that word or something? Youre throwing it around a lot for non-strawmen. Read this thread and tell me it was one person being negative about Mazur. 1st comment is about how big of a reach it was, 2nd post is about how Draper should get fired for drafting Mazur (a post that you liked LOL),

Prospect Info: - #70 - Carter Mazur (LW)

Carter Mazur (LW) 6'0 / 168 lbs Tri-City Storm, USHL Heading to the University of Denver for 2021-2022 Profile: Carter Mazur at eliteprospects.com

forums.hfboards.com

Lol... I've already said it might've been phrased weird but I was talking about Bertuzzi with the UDFA comment, not Mazur. Stop reading your word of the day calendar with strawman on it and read the posts youre replying to

The fact that I want Draper fired isn't because of Mazur. Read my comments on that thread, I wasn't entirely negative about the pick though I also thought it was a reach.

Besides, how many NHL games has Mazur actually played? He won't be a full time NHLer unless he gains at least 10 lbs (ideally 15 - 20), his game won't translate to the NHL. Kinda early to act like he's a success. The reason why he broke out a year late is because he's slow in physical development, and the trend is still there.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Wired: physical guys who can hockey
Tired: physical guys who cannot hockey

 

[Winger98]

Its actually really funny, its like theres this split on this board. People who want a tougher team and people who want skilled only players. These people were fine with trotting out guys like Joakin Andersson, Emmerton, Drew Miller etc etc for years on the bottom lines, but as soon as you talk about adding a tough player, it was all about how they need to be able to score 20 goals in the top 6... as if half those line ups werent horrible.

CHristopher Ehn making opening day but tough players have to score 20. It still doesnt make sense

Not more strawman at all, did you just learn that word or something? Youre throwing it around a lot for non-strawmen. Read this thread and tell me it was one person being negative about Mazur. 1st comment is about how big of a reach it was, 2nd post is about how Draper should get fired for drafting Mazur (a post that you liked LOL),

Prospect Info: - #70 - Carter Mazur (LW)

Carter Mazur (LW) 6'0 / 168 lbs Tri-City Storm, USHL Heading to the University of Denver for 2021-2022 Profile: Carter Mazur at eliteprospects.com

forums.hfboards.com

Lol... I've already said it might've been phrased weird but I was talking about Bertuzzi with the UDFA comment, not Mazur. Stop reading your word of the day calendar with strawman on it and read the posts youre replying to

I wouldn't want them to have to score 20, but I would want them to take a regular shift. They need to take 10-12 minutes a night without their shifts being white knucklers hoping they don't get routinely burned. If they can PK then all the better.