GDT: #40 | Flyers at Leafs | Sunday, January 5, 2024 | 7:00 PM TONIGHT | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

[freakydallas13]

According to Wheeler, Helenius had a disappointing WJC, even though he's more advanced than Jett.

Jett really wasn't going to show much offensively, both b/c of his wings (basically muckers) and because of his usage, PK, 4th line, playing with a lead (expected to play it safe). The Flyers have no control, but hopefully he'll get traded in the next couple weeks to a more talented and offensively oriented team. If he stays on Guelph, I can see the Flyers keeping him next year b/c he can probably develop faster in a sheltered role than on that team.

Would you say we should.....how do I put it.....wait 3 years to judge Helenius? Or is that only applicable to underperforming Flyers prospects?

 

[deadhead]

Are you reading the posts you are responding to?

Florida finished 28th in 2011, 30th in 2013, and 29th in 2014. They drafted their 1C, a first-pairing defenseman, and an elite wing that they later to traded to acquire another elite wing. Everything you're talking about came after, because they were building around a core of players they drafted in the top 5. They bottomed out long enough to draft 3 can't-miss future All-Stars and THEN began adding talent on top. Hence, that's why it's step one.

They weren't building around a handful of unpicked late 1sts. Having the 10th, 26th and 29th picks in a draft doesn't add up to a top 5 selection. The Flyers are already a team almost entirely comprised of first rounders picked between 10 and 32. Those mostly turn out to be Laughtons and Poehlings and Frosts.

You're getting killed here. Stop. Think. Digest what you are reading before responding.

A bit of an exaggeration.

Is Ekblad #1 quality, or just a good top four D-man?
Let's see, finished 6th in Norris voting one season, only time in top ten.
Is he really better than Sanheim?

Was Huberdeau an elite forward? Had one elite season at 28, otherwise solid career but not a top 10 forward, maybe top 20.

Barkov was the only elite player out of those three picks.

 

[Beef Invictus]

A bit of an exaggeration.

Is Ekblad #1 quality, or just a good top four D-man?
Let's see, finished 6th in Norris voting one season, only time in top ten.
Is he really better than Sanheim?

Was Huberdeau an elite forward? Had one elite season at 28, otherwise solid career but not a top 10 forward, maybe top 20.

Barkov was the only elite player out of those three picks.

Whats the attempted point here, that they had nothing to do with Florida's success?

 

[MJL66]

No I never said that. I have no idea what you are saying but I don't think you read well.

Fletcher wasted money. Cap got screwed up. Takes time to fix. How is that complicated to understand?

You obviously didn't get the logic.

 

[Beef Invictus]

"What's missing besides the money?"

And instead of pondering the assets they moved to become the team they are, we get

"THINK ABOUT THE MONEY"

 

[MJL66]

Incorrect. Team defense is how you win championships. Building a team based on defense is the correct approach.

You're incorrect. The NHL is a puck possession attack league. The best defense is having the puck more. Regardless of how well you defend, if you do it to much, you won't be good. That is the modern day NHL

 

[MJL66]

Also incorrect. Focusing on defense to the effect of losing offense loses you championships. The teams that score the most win. Defense is merely hanging on trying to survive. This defense-first mantra is the stuff of losers. Scoring is how you win.

These days, offense also serves as the most effective form of defense as well. If you're controlling the play and keeping the puck in the other end, then you aren't defending. The only fully effective form of defense in the NHL is not needing to defend.

It will surely come as a shock to you that the team with some of the best overall defensive results in the playoffs last year was...Edmonton. They achieved that through emphasis on controlling the puck and pushing offense. They lost because of a lack of depth.

100% correct. It's not easy educating the uninformed.

 

[freakydallas13]

The venn diagram of Flyers fans who think you win games with a score of 0-0 and fans who defend this team's management no matter what, is a circle.

 

[Magua]

It’s almost like drafting that 115 point player at 3rd overall was essential to trading for a 104 point former 6th overall player. Did Florida ever think about just trading Tippett for Tkachuk?

So, really all the Flyers need is for Luchanko to turn into a 90-100 point 2nd overall Selke center. And find their 1D off waivers. Another 2/3D with a 1st overall. And sign a future 40 goal top line wing with a current career high of 13 points. And trade a late 1st for a former 2nd overall who scores 57 goals. And trade for a former 2nd overall bust who emerges into a 50 point center. Trade a 3rd rounder for a 70 point defenseman. Did I miss anything?

Recent Flyers drafting, rebuilding philosophies, and NHL talent evaluations tell me this is not likely. The good news is the Flyers are already playing like a contender. So, none of this is even necessary. Really, they just need Noah Cates to be a 30 point center and Bonk to play the bumper on the PP.

 

[MJL66]

A bit of an exaggeration.

Is Ekblad #1 quality, or just a good top four D-man?
Let's see, finished 6th in Norris voting one season, only time in top ten.
Is he really better than Sanheim?

Was Huberdeau an elite forward? Had one elite season at 28, otherwise solid career but not a top 10 forward, maybe top 20.

Barkov was the only elite player out of those three picks.

Yes, Ekblad is #1 quality and is better than Sanheim. Huberdeau was coming off of a 115 point season and set an NHL record for assists by a LW.

 

[Rich Nixon]

A bit of an exaggeration.

Is Ekblad #1 quality, or just a good top four D-man?
Let's see, finished 6th in Norris voting one season, only time in top ten.
Is he really better than Sanheim?

Was Huberdeau an elite forward? Had one elite season at 28, otherwise solid career but not a top 10 forward, maybe top 20.

Barkov was the only elite player out of those three picks.

I said "first-pairing" and shove it with the elite/not elite semantics. Did Florida use a player they drafted with a #3 pick in a trade for the leading scorer* on their Stanley Cup winning team, yes or no?

*tied with the franchise center they drafted with a #2 pick, of course

 

[MJL66]

It’s almost like drafting that 115 point player at 3rd overall was essential to trading for a 104 point former 6th overall player. Did Florida ever think about just trading Tippett for Tkachuk?

So, really all the Flyers need is for Luchanko to turn into a 90-100 point Selke center. And find their 1D off waivers. Another 2/3D with a 1st overall. And sign a future 40 goal top line wing with a current career high of 13 points. And trade a late 1st for a former 2nd overall who scores 57 goals. And trade for a former 2nd overall bust who emerges into a 50 point center. Trade a 3rd rounder for a 70 point defenseman. Did I miss anything?

Recent Flyers drafting, rebuilding philosophies, and NHL talent evaluations tells me this is not likely. The good news is the Flyers are already playing like a contender. So, this isn’t even necessary.

According to some, we just need to get league average goaltending.

 

[freakydallas13]

It’s almost like drafting that 115 point player at 3rd overall was essential to trading for a 104 point former 6th overall player. Did Florida ever think about just trading Tippett for Tkachuk?

So, really all the Flyers need is for Luchanko to turn into a 90-100 point 2nd overall Selke center. And find their 1D off waivers. Another 2/3D with a 1st overall. And sign a future 40 goal top line wing with a current career high of 13 points. And trade a late 1st for a former 2nd overall who scores 57 goals. And trade for a former 2nd overall bust who emerges into a 50 point center. Trade a 3rd rounder for a 70 point defenseman. Did I miss anything?

Recent Flyers drafting, rebuilding philosophies, and NHL talent evaluations tell me this is not likely. The good news is the Flyers are already playing like a contender. So, none of this is even necessary. Really, they just need Noah Cates to be a 30 point center and Bonk to play the bumper on the PP.

We're in great shape, actually. Laughtchenko is almost the same age as Hagens.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It’s almost like drafting that 115 point player at 3rd overall was essential to trading for a 104 point former 6th overall player. Did Florida ever think about just trading Tippett for Tkachuk?

So, really all the Flyers need is for Luchanko to turn into a 90-100 point 2nd overall Selke center. And find their 1D off waivers. Another 2/3D with a 1st overall. And sign a future 40 goal top line wing with a current career high of 13 points. And trade a late 1st for a former 2nd overall who scores 57 goals. And trade for a former 2nd overall bust who emerges into a 50 point center. Trade a 3rd rounder for a 70 point defenseman. Did I miss anything?

Recent Flyers drafting, rebuilding philosophies, and NHL talent evaluations tell me this is not likely. The good news is the Flyers are already playing like a contender. So, none of this is even necessary. Really, they just need Noah Cates to be a 30 point center and Bonk to play the bumper on the PP.

You forgot "get a coach smarter than a tree that abuses chemical fertilizers."

 

[Magua]

We're in great shape, actually. Laughtchenko is almost the same age as Hagens.

Jett is 2 months older, but he actually has worse acne than Hagens. Really when you think about it, Jett’s physiologic age is younger than Hagens’. Perhaps as much as 1.5 years. It’s plausible Luchenko has higher upside.

 

[MJL66]

I've been in a debate on another site with a poster who claims that if the Flyers would offer Tippett, Bonk and a 1st. Vancouver would trade Pettersson for that. He claims that a package of Tippett, Bonk and a 1st would get almost any available player for the Flyers.

 

[freakydallas13]

I've been in a debate on another site with a poster who claims that if the Flyers would offer Tippett, Bonk and a 1st. Vancouver would trade Pettersson for that. He claims that a package of Tippett, Bonk and a 1st would get almost any available player for the Flyers.

I mean, I'd make that trade, but I'm also not super high on Bonk.

 

[deadhead]

It’s almost like drafting that 115 point player at 3rd overall was essential to trading for a 104 point former 6th overall player. Did Florida ever think about just trading Tippett for Tkachuk?

So, really all the Flyers need is for Luchanko to turn into a 90-100 point 2nd overall Selke center. And find their 1D off waivers. Another 2/3D with a 1st overall. And sign a future 40 goal top line wing with a current career high of 13 points. And trade a late 1st for a former 2nd overall who scores 57 goals. And trade for a former 2nd overall bust who emerges into a 50 point center. Trade a 3rd rounder for a 70 point defenseman. Did I miss anything?

Recent Flyers drafting, rebuilding philosophies, and NHL talent evaluations tell me this is not likely. The good news is the Flyers are already playing like a contender. So, none of this is even necessary. Really, they just need Noah Cates to be a 30 point center and Bonk to play the bumper on the PP.

The 115 point season was a fluke, a lot of players have that one outlier season.
Any team that extends or trades a player basing their value on an outlier season is run by fools.

Barkov is elite. Huberdeau is very good, but you don't need to pick in the top 5 to get players like him. Ekblad is good, but plenty of 1st round D-men are just as good.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The 115 point season was a fluke, a lot of players have that one outlier season.
Any team that extends or trades a player basing their value on an outlier season is run by fools.

This take brought to you by the “Kevin Hayes was the only possible move and made total sense” guy.

 

[MJL66]

The 115 point season was a fluke, a lot of players have that one outlier season.
Any team that extends or trades a player basing their value on an outlier season is run by fools.

Barkov is elite. Huberdeau is very good, but you don't need to pick in the top 5 to get players like him. Ekblad is good, but plenty of 1st round D-men are just as good.

You don't need to pick in the top 5 but the odds are much better if you do.

I mean, I'd make that trade, but I'm also not super high on Bonk.

Are you a Flyers fan?

 

[deadhead]

I've been in a debate on another site with a poster who claims that if the Flyers would offer Tippett, Bonk and a 1st. Vancouver would trade Pettersson for that. He claims that a package of Tippett, Bonk and a 1st would get almost any available player for the Flyers.

If I were trading for Pettersson, I'd want to include Frost in the deal instead of Bonk.
Not b/c I don't like Frost (think he's playing better this season even if scoring doesn't reflect it) but b/c Pettersson is a better version.

 

[MJL66]

If I were trading for Pettersson, I'd want to include Frost in the deal instead of Bonk.
Not b/c I don't like Frost (think he's playing better this season even if scoring doesn't reflect it) but b/c Pettersson is a better version.

I'd be fine with that. I personally don't think that Frost will grow here under Tortorella. For him to have a chance, he needs a change of scenery. Frost though is not playing better this season. His defensive play is significantly worse. There is no way that Vancouver is taking either deal.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Not that Vancouver would entertain it, but that trade isn’t cap compliant. Or really close to it.

If another player making moderate money was included, I think you could sneak in under the bar if you did it at the deadline. But then you have to sort out next year.

 

[MJL66]

Not that Vancouver would entertain it, but that trade isn’t cap compliant. Or really close to it.

If another player making moderate money was included, I think you could sneak in under the bar if you did it at the deadline. But then you have to sort out next year.

The Flyers can place Ellis on LTIR to make the cap work.

 

[Boocowski]

Dude do you know how ridiculous you sound? You deride anyone who has valid criticisms of the team and the org and label it as negative. Your "optimism" is that you think there will be a big opportunity in the 26/27 season via free agency and you're "hoping" they manage to get it right. And if they don't get it right then what, you'll all the sudden recognize the sad reality that's been biting all fans in the ass since 2014? Hoping the team maybe gets it right despite numerous examples of them getting it wrong isn't optimism its delusion. You couldn't (or refused) to name one positive thing about the team (not the game the other night but the team) so maybe chill on calling out posters on their "negativity".

Nope. Incorrect. It's insane to hold the current management responsible for 10 year old mistakes. Briere and Jones might get it wrong, but they should only be measured from the time they are hired forward. Anything else is negativity by design.

I give them to 26/27 season to get it right. That's a reasonable timeline and you can see the opportunity is there. I hope they get it right.

Also incorrect. Focusing on defense to the effect of losing offense loses you championships. The teams that score the most win. Defense is merely hanging on trying to survive. This defense-first mantra is the stuff of losers. Scoring is how you win.

These days, offense also serves as the most effective form of defense as well. If you're controlling the play and keeping the puck in the other end, then you aren't defending. The only fully effective form of defense in the NHL is not needing to defend.

It will surely come as a shock to you that the team with some of the best overall defensive results in the playoffs last year was...Edmonton. They achieved that through emphasis on controlling the puck and pushing offense. They lost because of a lack of depth.

Sure sure. Edmonton was the defensive team and Florida was the offensive team. Yup, that makes sense. Florida won the cup because Sam Bennett is the meanest son of a bitch in the NHL, Tkachuk gets under everybody's skin, Bob was great and nobody could handle Florida's aggressive forecheck but believe what you want. Edmonton just wasn't deep enough.

Are you reading the posts you are responding to?

Florida finished 28th in 2011, 30th in 2013, and 29th in 2014. They drafted their 1C, a first-pairing defenseman, and an elite wing that they later to traded to acquire another elite wing. Everything you're talking about came after, because they were building around a core of players they drafted in the top 5. They bottomed out long enough to draft 3 can't-miss future All-Stars and THEN began adding talent on top. Hence, that's why it's step one.

They weren't building around a handful of unpicked late 1sts. Having the 10th, 26th and 29th picks in a draft doesn't add up to a top 5 selection. The Flyers are already a team almost entirely comprised of first rounders picked between 10 and 32. Those mostly turn out to be Laughtons and Poehlings and Frosts.

You're getting killed here. Stop. Think. Digest what you are reading before responding.

I'm not getting killed here. There's just a small circle jerk of negative nellies that think they could be better GMs and act like they know everything. I'm guessing none of you even ever played hockey but whatever, you don't have to answer my posts if you think you're so much smarter.

You obviously didn't get the logic.

You obviously refuse to see any hope at all.