Post-Game Talk: #34 - 12/20/19 | maple leafs @ RANGERS

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Not going to quote any particular post.

Playoff posts. 16 teams out of 21 vs 16 out of 31. In the “old days”, relatively bad teams could still make the playoffs and possibly play into May. These days, relatively decent teams can easily miss the playoffs, still end up with a lousy draft position, and be stuck in hockey purgatory for a decade. I think that was the intended point.

As for the Stars playing Pittsburgh in the playoffs...1991 Finals. Pittsburgh won in 6. Minnesota finished nearly 20 games under .500.
 
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I missed the game sadly (or not so much) & came here to hear how we played but it sounds to me like folks, yet again, were thinking that Panarin / Trouba would make this team a legit contender immediately.

Leafs have talent in spades... were expected to be Cup favs. We were expected to continue to rebuild. This happens. Relax.

Unrealistic expectations make people upset
 
Unrealistic expectations make people upset

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I agree we’ve got a ways to go but what I’m seeing more and more is a really poorly coached team. Again the PP should be an equalizer for us. Panarin Kakko Mika Trouba DeAngelo Kreider Fox Buchnevich plenty of talented guys here. Was working fine and Quinn destroyed it. It’s cost us multiple games.

the constant line juggling is a mess. The refusal to shoot pucks without accountability. The analytics are the worst in the league. There are teams with far less talent playing much better Hockey.

We have zero structure.

yes we’re young but a lot of this is on coaching.
 
I agree we’ve got a ways to go but what I’m seeing more and more is a really poorly coached team. Again the PP should be an equalizer for us. Panarin Kakko Mika Trouba DeAngelo Kreider Fox Buchnevich plenty of talented guys here. Was working fine and Quinn destroyed it. It’s cost us multiple games.

the constant line juggling is a mess. The refusal to shoot pucks without accountability. The analytics are the worst in the league. There are teams with far less talent playing much better Hockey.

We have zero structure.

yes we’re young but a lot of this is on coaching.

Rangers are always a mess around Christmas/New Years. Something about NYC this time of year, it's too overwhelming (I work there and don't want to be there more than I have to), the only two exceptions were 91-92 and 2011-12.

Quinn gets the rest of this year. Ruff will be the scapegoat and canned. If there isn't improvement by mid-next year, I expect Knoblauch to be named interim coach. No sources just a guess. Remember, JD didn't hire Quinn.
 
I haven’t forgotten

JD is going to want to put his mark on something at some point and I think he likes gorton a lot but this is not his coach and when you have a coach like DeBoer out there. Maybe laviolette becomes avail. You have to act. Look at the metro coaches.

Reirden with the Caps won a Cup with them last year he’s been tremendous for them.

trotz no words needed

AV always comes in and instantly makes his team better. Veteran coach

Sullivan Cup winner great coach

torts hell of a coach Cup winner

Carolina has Brindamour great coach ton of NHL experience rising star.

then you have Quinn total nobody in the NHL. No resume. And it’s showing. He’s been a wet nurse basically. He hasn’t proven he can win anything or even get this group to play any kind of structure. I honestly think Knoblauch would be better. But it will be time soon to bring in a professional coach with a pedigree of winning nhl hockey
 
Rangers are always a mess around Christmas/New Years. Something about NYC this time of year, it's too overwhelming (I work there and don't want to be there more than I have to), the only two exceptions were 91-92 and 2011-12.

Quinn gets the rest of this year. Ruff will be the scapegoat and canned. If there isn't improvement by mid-next year, I expect Knoblauch to be named interim coach. No sources just a guess. Remember, JD didn't hire Quinn.
Assistant coaches rarely get the can by himself. They're usually let go with the head coach in the offseason. They usually stick around when a head coach is fired in season.
 
Assistant coaches rarely get the can by himself. They're usually let go with the head coach.

AV had a bunch of assistants during his tenure, granted it was for different reasons and none were "canned" (Samuelson/Beuk/Ruff).

Ruff is a leftover from AV's final year. He's the easiest target especially when he was leftover because of his experience and he's also much older than the current staff.
 
AV had a bunch of assistants during his tenure, granted it was for different reasons and none were "canned" (Samuelson/Beuk/Ruff).

Ruff is a leftover from AV's final year. He's the easiest target especially when he was leftover because of his experience and he's also much older than the current staff.
That's age discrimination, a workplace violation. We're lucky you're not the HR manager lol
 
I agree we’ve got a ways to go but what I’m seeing more and more is a really poorly coached team. Again the PP should be an equalizer for us. Panarin Kakko Mika Trouba DeAngelo Kreider Fox Buchnevich plenty of talented guys here. Was working fine and Quinn destroyed it. It’s cost us multiple games.

the constant line juggling is a mess. The refusal to shoot pucks without accountability. The analytics are the worst in the league. There are teams with far less talent playing much better Hockey.

We have zero structure.

yes we’re young but a lot of this is on coaching.
I'm coming around to this POV. I was originally very bullish on Quinn due to the progress I saw in the development of Buch, ADA, and Chytil. Now, however, I'm starting to grow increasingly concerned by what I see on the ice in terms of play, structure, strategy, and lineup combinations.
 
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Assistant coaches rarely get the can by himself. They're usually let go with the head coach in the offseason. They usually stick around when a head coach is fired in season.
Would love to see Vegas completely fall off the earth and Gallant get fired...and then we hire him . One can dream ! LOL..
 
That's age discrimination, a workplace violation. We're lucky you're not the HR manager lol

LOL, the guy was playing before some of the team's parents were even in puberty. Chytil's dad was like 17 when Ruff retired. It's not about age just sometimes the game passes you by. Happens to athletes. Ruff has been coaching since the late 90s, the numbers show his methods and schemes don't work anymore.
 
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I'm coming around to this POV. I was originally very bullish on Quinn due to the progress I saw in the development of Buch, ADA, and Chytil. Now, however, I'm starting to grow increasingly concerned by what I see on the ice in terms of play, structure, strategy, and lineup combinations.

I’m with you here I had no problem with Quinn last year but this year it is painfully obvious he is not doing a good job. This team actually should be a lot better
 
Went to the game last night. I tried my best to isolate on as many guys as possible during the game.

* My biggest takeaway is that the young guys(and some vets) really forced plays and fueled the Leaf's transition. Lemieux, Tony, Strome, Fil, Fox, Kaapo and the entire fourth line were constantly turning pucks over with cheeky touch passes to no one and trying to make outlets with no support instead of soft-dumping it up the ice.

* Georgiev had a bad night, but the team obviously did him no favors. The amount of times a Leaf was allowed to just waltz down the slot and freeze his release to try and pick a corner was maddening. He was frustrated with himself between whistles - shaking his head and slapping the post with his blocker.

* Kreider, Mika and Fast were probably our best line 5v5 as they made good decisions with the puck and played straight ahead. They gave Toronto fits in the corners.

* I don't know why the forwards were flying the zone so much when it was clear they had been getting into trouble with it all night.

* Kakko looks tired and is always a step behind the play, but I'm not worried about him. He seems to know where to be in all three zones, but he is either too slow getting there or not strong enough to win battles once he is. He reminds me of Chytil last year. His biggest problem is that he is 18.

* William Nylander will be a Ranger one day. Just one of those unexplainable hunches. He was good last night.

* Auston Matthews is obviously VERY skilled, but his game lacked urgency last night. Him trying to 'hot dog' Staal and getting shut down made me chuckle.

* Tavares looked SLOW, hence he was bad. Guys that aren't naturally good skater to begin with + huge contract on the doorstep of Thirty = Mistake.

* Marner was good and bad. Had a hard time when the Rangers were leaning on him early on, but is obviously deadly with time and space.

* Lemieux was BAD, seems like he is trying to play with more finesse lately and it's hurting him. Like Kreider, he's prone to the occasionally delusion that he is skilled enough to slam on the brakes, mohawk spin and fire an accurate pass across the ice to a streaking linemate. Didn't workout so well last night. Strome had similar issues. They were both benched for a period of time.

* Tony and Fox were forcing plays all night. Shots/passes were careening off of skates and leading to 3 on 2's the other way.

* Final Thought:

The lack of structure was concerning after it seemed like they were finally starting to develop some going into the West Coast trip but I keep having to remind myself that they are young and lack depth.

Yes, their gap control is terrible. Yes, they are horrendous at slowing teams down through the neutral zone - but I'm not sure that with the way this current roster is constructed that they would all the sudden be a true bubble team if these issues were addressed. I suspect we would sacrifices some scoring and the narrative would be that Quinn is suffocating the team offensively. Developing young players' offensive talents while teaching them structure and risk mitigation is a challenge - they can usually focus on one or the other and do it well, but both at the same time can be a tall order.

I have my own concerns about Quinn and whether or not he is a good enough to coach an abled roster to a championship, but I don't think this team doesn't have serious problems if he was swapped for say, a guy like Brind'amour - they would probably just have different ones.
 
I am thinking the same thing, definitely not an expert on goalies but just what I also see.

And, in addition, one thing that I have been a bit irked about in the past -- and especially in relation to Cory Schneider who often has been hailed as such a great goalie -- is when a goalie is seen as a complete package without even having been in the POs. How can you even know if someone is a great goalie unless you have seen them handling a 7 game series, the pressure that brings on? The pressure during a regular season is really nothing compared to the POs. Of course this is not Geo's fault -- but my point is just, I still think he is very unproven.

JMHO, but it does seem like we are a bit rushed to fall in love with Georgiev. Maybe its because "he is better than Hank", which is true, but does that really say much in December 2019? Hank isn't peak Hank anymore. Someone better than him must not be "great" per definition.
I don’t even think it’s a slam dunk that Georgie is “better” than Hank. He’s gone on streaks where he looked better and had some high highs. But it’s a lot of up and down. Idk if I can comfortably say he’s “better” at all.

He has great runs where he looks like he could be a future starter and then he has games where he looks like an AHLer. A great 3 game streak followed by 3 bad games followed by an even better 3 game steak followed by more bad games. Idk. I just think people have gotten over their skis with Georgiev at times.
 
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I'm coming around to this POV. I was originally very bullish on Quinn due to the progress I saw in the development of Buch, ADA, and Chytil. Now, however, I'm starting to grow increasingly concerned by what I see on the ice in terms of play, structure, strategy, and lineup combinations.

I was a fan last year, and I like what he has to say, but last year was his first year coaching and I could overlook the inexperience (coaching and player personnel) as a learning curve.

But I don't think they learned anything, and some decisions are just baffling. The structure, not being able to match lines, constant juggling, distribution of ice-time, bizarre line-change calls... those are not signs of a very crafty group.

After the 5th game I saw live from a bird's eye view, I was able to call the end results. Nights that they were going to get shut out, when they were going to get scored on, long lapses of player disengagement... it was pretty poor.
 
I think Georgiev is probably a high end back up. He’s not your franchise goalie. Your franchise goalie is in Hartford right now.
 
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I ****ing hate the Leafs so much. Dog**** game. Please let’s see what we have in Shestyorkin before he runs to Russia.
If you put him on his knees in front of this D why WOULDN'T he go back to Russia?

And yes that phrasing is on purpose bc we'd absolutely be f***ing him if he had to play with this team. Have some patience. It's a bad team. Wait until next year before throwing the panic switched people
 
* Final Thought:

The lack of structure was concerning after it seemed like they were finally starting to develop some going into the West Coast trip but I keep having to remind myself that they are young and lack depth.

Yes, their gap control is terrible. Yes, they are horrendous at slowing teams down through the neutral zone - but I'm not sure that with the way this current roster is constructed that they would all the sudden be a true bubble team if these issues were addressed. I suspect we would sacrifices some scoring and the narrative would be that Quinn is suffocating the team offensively. Developing young players' offensive talents while teaching them structure and risk mitigation is a challenge - they can usually focus on one or the other and do it well, but both at the same time can be a tall order.

I have my own concerns about Quinn and whether or not he is a good enough to coach an abled roster to a championship, but I don't think this team doesn't have serious problems if he was swapped for say, a guy like Brind'amour - they would probably just have different ones.
I don't think so. Proper gap-control would lead to more offense and less time in our defensive zone.

Sometimes it feels we just give up the neutral zone, our blue line and left them come in to the tops of the circles. We give every team an absurd amount of space and time
 
Fans thinking that coaches make a difference is funny. Trotz appears to be the only exception.

Someone says DeBoer is out there. They ran him out of San Jose. If we were San Jose fans we'd hate him. But he's the answer.

Until everyone figures out that it's 90 something percent personnel that determines results, these crazy coach theories will flourish.

Not as unimportant as in baseball, where the manager is literally worth zero.
 
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