Prospect Info: 33rd overall Roby Jarventie LW FIN

[playasRus]

sokolov was a reach according to bobs list

He was picked within 20 picks of his ranking. By your logic, that would be the definition of NOT a reach. If Bob's list was so accurate, the next round, he wouldn't be there 31 picks later for them, assuming they hadn't traded for another pick.

 

[Masked]

I agree using comps is always the best. I just get leery when people minimize the impact of draft year. I agree, physically speaking, being born in August or October is almost negligible. But the draft cut off generally makes an appreciable difference, especially when it comes with a league change. (example: Rantanen didn't play in the same league as Jarventie D or D1. Aside from being born in the same country and within a few months of each other on the calendar, I don't see him as a comparator.)

But Jarventie is currently playing as an 18 year old in the Liiga, which is the same league that Rantanen played in as an 18 year old. Which season makes more sense to compare - the one in which the players are 2.5 months apart in age or the one in which they are 9.5 months apart in age?

 

[Hale The Villain]

But Jarventie is currently playing as an 18 year old in the Liiga, which is the same league that Rantanen played in as an 18 year old. Which season makes more sense to compare - the one in which the players are 2.5 months apart in age or the one in which they are 9.5 months apart in age?

Always compare players using birth year, no matter the months in between. If you want to place additional value on a player being months younger than another born in the same year, that's fine, but players born from Jan 1 - Sep 14 and those born from Sep 15 - Dec 31 play together for most of their minor years, are in the same grade in school, and graduate at the same time. The arbitrary Sep 15 deadline the NHL put in place to ensure minors (non-adults) weren't in NHL training camps results in the second group being drafted a year later, but it'd be foolish to compare them to any other birth year.

Take Alexis Lafreniere and Nathan Legare as an example. Childhood friends who grew up in the same neighborhood, were in the same grade in school, played on the same teams in bantam and midget, and were drafted to the QMJHL in the same year (2017), but Lafreniere got drafted in 2020 instead of 2019 like Legare (and the rest of the Jan 1 - Sep 14 2001 birth years) because he was born late in the year. Lafreniere had the same number of development years since bantam as Legare, but got an extra year of development before being drafted because of the arbitrary Sep 15 deadline. Would be foolish to compare Lafreniere with an early 2002 birthday like Hendrix Lapierre, who was always a grade lower in school and only got to play 2 years of QMJHL hockey before being drafted, even if he's closer in age in months to Lafreniere than Legare is.

It's a bit different for Euro kids who can jump up levels at lower ages and have a different kind of development system, but the logic is the same. Look at development years - not the age of players in months.

 

[Bevans]

But Jarventie is currently playing as an 18 year old in the Liiga, which is the same league that Rantanen played in as an 18 year old. Which season makes more sense to compare - the one in which the players are 2.5 months apart in age or the one in which they are 9.5 months apart in age?

If it were that simple then every August draftee would be a superstar and every october draftee a bust. By the time jarventie had played 5 games in liiga Rantanen had played 52, and dominated U18 and Hlinka.

Scouts judge players by their draft class and are aware of their bdays. Putting 15 D1 games against Rantanen pre draft career is a recipe for disaster.

I'm from Ottawa, I drafted Jarventie high in my keeper. I want him to succeed, so this isn't bashing. But the Rantanen comps are silly.

 

[Masked]

If it were that simple then every August draftee would be a superstar and every october draftee a bust.

That's completely nonsensical.

 

[Bevans]

That's completely nonsensical.

Feel free to comment on the rest of the post. Fact is that scouts recognize the impact of age. Jarventie's late bday pushed him up the draft board.

Complete nonsense is overlooking Rantanen's Extra 50 Liiga games, U18 games and Hlinka Just because of a birthday.

 

[Ippenator]

Feel free to comment on the rest of the post. Fact is that scouts recognize the impact of age. Jarventie's late bday pushed him up the draft board.

Complete nonsense is overlooking Rantanen's Extra 50 Liiga games, U18 games and Hlinka Just because of a birthday.

Scouts make a lot of mistakes really. Especially with European based players. The more recent very much undervalued example was Sebastian Aho. I can honestly say that during his draft year I was practically sure that he would become a great NHL player, and I couldn’t believe that he went only in the 2nd round. Obviously bad judgement from the NHL scouts in general.

Similar thing happened with Elias Petterson, just not as harshly as with Aho. What amazes me is that the NHL scouts seem to have a hard time with realizing when a youngster has very high hockey IQ and how big factor that very often is for players to become great NHL players. Either they really don’t recognise this quality or they simply don’t believe in what effect it really has for how good a player can really be at the top level.

Part of it is in my opinion how people are so blindly believing nowadays that skating is the most defining skill for a player’s success. It really isn’t, although it is one important thing, but not the most important for sure. At least if you are trying to find a good top 6 forward.

I see similarities with how Järventie has been generally undervalued like Aho and even Pettersson. The thing is that like Aho and Pettersson, Järventie also has very high hockey IQ, and he has been also physically quite raw even for his age. These things tend to fool a big majority of the scouts.

I’m quite confident that Järventie is going to have a similar continuation to his career as Aho has had. Maybe not as good, but at least somewhere to that direction. I think the soon starting U20 WJC will tell already something too. If he performs really well there, I can say that my expectations will be even more towards an Aho kind of continuation for Järventie’s career.

 

[JD1]

Scouts make a lot of mistakes really. Especially with European based players. The more recent very much undervalued example was Sebastian Aho. I can honestly say that during his draft year I was practically sure that he would become a great NHL player, and I couldn’t believe that he went only in the 2nd round. Obviously bad judgement from the NHL scouts in general.

Similar thing happened with Elias Petterson, just not as harshly as with Aho. What amazes me is that the NHL scouts seem to have a hard time with realizing when a youngster has very high hockey IQ and how big factor that very often is for players to become great NHL players. Either they really don’t recognise this quality or they simply don’t believe in what effect it really has for how good a player can really be at the top level.

Part of it is in my opinion how people are so blindly believing nowadays that skating is the most defining skills for a player’s success. It really isn’t, although it is one important thing, but not the most important for sure. At least if you are trying to find a good top 6 forward.

I see similarities with how Järventie has been generally undervalued like Aho and even Pettersson. The thing is that like Aho and Pettersson, Järventie also has very high hockey IQ, and he has been also physically quite raw even for his age. These things tend to fool a big majority of the scouts.

I’m quite confident that Järventie is going to have a similar continuation to his career as Aho has had. Maybe not as good, but at least somewhere to that direction. I think the soon starting U20 WJC will tell already something too. If he performs really well there, I can say that my expectations will be even more towards an Aho kind of continuation for Järventie’s career.

I don't think it's really fair to say that they make mistakes per se. It's more fair to acknowledge that the draft is not a precise science

First off you've got the draft track records on the record which allows the internet warrior community to go backwards with their "aha...i was right" thinking anytime someone they liked didn't go as high as they liked

But more important than that, you've got how many different development models funneling players into the NHL? and virtually no way at all to reliably compare the models.

Teams are going to outperform their draft positions some years and underperform them other years and that's simply an undeniable truth in both real and relative terms

You highlighted Aho who went 35th. That's a collective miss by the entire scouting community and probably caused many teams to reexamine their internal processes. Misses like Aho will always happen in an environment that isn't based on an exact science

 

[Sweatred]

There is also a lot of Canadian bias. I am generalizing a bit ... but A team of 2-4 RD Russian picks is going to give the 1 RD Canadian WJC team a tough game.

 

[JaredCowen4Norris]

I’m quite confident that Järventie is going to have a similar continuation to his career as Aho has had. Maybe not as good, but at least somewhere to that direction. I think the soon starting U20 WJC will tell already something too. If he performs really well there, I can say that my expectations will be even more towards an Aho kind of continuation for Järventie’s career.

Do you think Järventie has what it takes to play center eventually, or is he better off being used as a goal scoring winger?

 

[BondraTime]

Do you think Järventie has what it takes to play center eventually, or is he better off being used as a goal scoring winger?

He's never going to be a center, he's a tailor-made winger

 

[JaredCowen4Norris]

You highlighted Aho who went 35th. That's a collective miss by the entire scouting community and probably caused many teams to reexamine their internal processes. Misses like Aho will always happen in an environment that isn't based on an exact science

Scouting is definitely not a precise science but I don't understand why people trust NHL scouts so much...They have access to things the online scouting community may not, but they're not infallible. If scouting was a meritocracy where only the best make it to the NHL then I'd trust them, but at the end of the day it's more about who you know and where you came from. It's more likely that when a team has a shitty draft it's because of bad scouting over bad luck. Look at Peter Chiarelli's drafts from when he was the GM of the Bruins. There is not a single player of note drafted outside of Hamilton and Seguin (maybe Spooner). It's not like Chiarelli just had some bad luck with player development, the Bruins had a fundamentally terrible drafting methodology. They were going for "their guys" and not one of them panned out. This is an NHL team were talking about. I think it becomes a hot topic for a lot of people, especially online scouts, because it's simply not true that NHL scouts always know what they're doing. I feel like humans have this inherent bias that, if someone is in a high level position, they know what they're doing. There are plenty of people, both in the NHL and other industries, who are objectively bad at what they do but still call the shots.

 

[JaredCowen4Norris]

He's never going to be a center, he's a tailor-made winger

That's what I thought, but I was just curious after hearing the Aho comparison. I think that's probably more for development upside though.

 

[Xspyrit]

What I'm saying is after Batherson's draft+1 season, his 19 year old season in 2017-2018 people were thrilled with him.

Batherson put up 77 pts in 51 games, as a 19 year old. That summer, our boards prospect rankings had him as our 5th best prospect right between Colin White and Formenton.

Sokolov just put up 92 pts in 52 games as a 19 year old, but we've voted him our 16th best prospect (albeit in a much deeper pool).

Apples to Apples comparison, both guys in their 19 year old season, had we drafted 18 year old Sokolov like we did with Batherson, would we be voting him higher in our pool because of the massive Batherson like jump in his production?

That's actualy a very good point. But I think Sokolov's recognition problem has been his skating and how some people don't see his game transfer to the pros as he is just "so big" in junior

If he really improved his skating, we might have another really good prospect on our hands.

On another year, I think Sokolov would be ranked much higher, possibly top-10. I don't think everyone realizes how crazy our pool actually is.

That being said, drafting overagers allows you to see a much longer development curve. You know where the players went through and where he is heading. They are possibly much easier to project for NHL scouts. In comparison to a guy like Tychonick, for who it was a lot harder to predict what was going to happen.

I agree using comps is always the best. I just get leery when people minimize the impact of draft year. I agree, physically speaking, being born in August or October is almost negligible. But the draft cut off generally makes an appreciable difference, especially when it comes with a league change. (example: Rantanen didn't play in the same league as Jarventie D or D1. Aside from being born in the same country and within a few months of each other on the calendar, I don't see him as a comparator.)

I'm confused by this list you provided. Lehtera you use his D-1 season, Hintz and Rantanen you use D, Kapanen D+1. It just makes it hard to get a fair comparison and casts too wide a net.

Jarventie is a tough guy to compare using this method in particular. He had the best U21 Mestis season of all time, has a super late birthday, and now he's playing in Liiga in a year stacked with NHL prospects on a dominant team.

He's similar to Petterson or Makar in the sense that he dominated a lower-league that draft-season guys rarely play in for a full season. That means there are almost no real comparisons other than what we can glean from a 15 game sample size in a unique Liiga season and his U16 and U18 stuff.

I understand the desire to cast a broad net, but I think there's more value to be derived from specificity, especially in such a unique case.

I think Teraveinen fills that need, I didn't go over the others with a fine comb but I'm sure there are a couple others in there.

Why? Rantanen was drafted After his 18 y/o season in Liiga. He was almost 19 y/o when drafted compared to Jarventie who would still have been 17 if the draft happened in June.

I compared both at the same age in Finland

Mikko Rantanen 2014-2015 (3 months older than Jarventie):
56 GP 9 G 19 A 28 PTS

I really don't see why you can't compare the 2. It doesn't mean that Jarventie ends up better than Rantanen but at 18 y/o, Jarventie is better (so far)

The list I provided was not a comparison of their draft status but the production comparison at the same age (I didn't work on this for hours, I did the best I could as fast as possible). Some guys get drafted pretty young (like Jarventie would have been), some get drafted at almost 19 y/o, some get drafted as overagers. But I can explain :

Jori Lehterä : He was drafted as an overager, so I took his first season in Liiga (which wasn't a full season) where his age was the closest to Jarventie now

Hintz & Rantanen : I took their rookie season in Liiga, very close to Jarventie's actual age . These ones were easier because they weren't late b-days or overagers.

Kapanen : I specified that it was his 2nd year in Liiga. Realize that I wanted to compare what they did/do at the same age.

That whole list is legit comparisons to be made with what Jarventie will do this year. Of course, it's not going to be perfect as some guys were younger (ex : Barkov played in the NHL right away at 18 y/o) and some were older. Still, gives you comparables of Liiga rookie seasons at a similar age

If anything, what Jarventie is doing is even more impressive because of the influx of NHL Prospects talent and the fact that he is not getting the prime minutes on a strong team. I mean, he could the by-product of Teemu Selanne and Aleksei Barkov, but he's not. We just have to hope he continues

If it were that simple then every August draftee would be a superstar and every october draftee a bust. By the time jarventie had played 5 games in liiga Rantanen had played 52, and dominated U18 and Hlinka.

Scouts judge players by their draft class and are aware of their bdays. Putting 15 D1 games against Rantanen pre draft career is a recipe for disaster.

I'm from Ottawa, I drafted Jarventie high in my keeper. I want him to succeed, so this isn't bashing. But the Rantanen comps are silly.

Facts are silly? uh... why?

We are just comparing their production at a similar age in the same league. No one said "that's it, we have a better Rantanen on our hands!"

Scouting is definitely not a precise science but I don't understand why people trust NHL scouts so much...They have access to things the online scouting community may not, but they're not infallible. If scouting was a meritocracy where only the best make it to the NHL then I'd trust them, but at the end of the day it's more about who you know and where you came from. It's more likely that when a team has a shitty draft it's because of bad scouting over bad luck. Look at Peter Chiarelli's drafts from when he was the GM of the Bruins. There is not a single player of note drafted outside of Hamilton and Seguin (maybe Spooner). It's not like Chiarelli just had some bad luck with player development, the Bruins had a fundamentally terrible drafting methodology. They were going for "their guys" and not one of them panned out. This is an NHL team were talking about. I think it becomes a hot topic for a lot of people, especially online scouts, because it's simply not true that NHL scouts always know what they're doing. I feel like humans have this inherent bias that, if someone is in a high level position, they know what they're doing. There are plenty of people, both in the NHL and other industries, who are objectively bad at what they do but still call the shots.

Because they have been doing that full-time for a long time?

I mean I have been following the NHL and its prospects hardcore for almost 30 years but I still don't think I know more than them as they do it full-time and get to interview players, see them train, see their games lives, etc. If I was paid, I think I could be good too.

 

[Micklebot]

That's actualy a very good point. But I think Sokolov's recognition problem has been his skating and how some people don't see his game transfer to the pros as he is just "so big" in junior

If he really improved his skating, we might have another really good prospect on our hands.

On another year, I think Sokolov would be drafted much higher, possibly top-10. I don't think everyone realizes how crazy our pool actually is.

That being said, drafting overagers allows you to see a much longer development curve. You know where the players went through and where he is heading. They are possibly much easier to project for NHL scouts. In comparison to a guy like Tychonick, for who it was a lot harder to predict what was going to happen.

If you prefer, compare him to Stone at the same age, who also was a pretty bad skater.

 

[Bevans]

I really don't see why you can't compare the 2. It doesn't mean that Jarventie ends up better than Rantanen but at 18 y/o, Jarventie is better (so far)


Facts are silly? uh... why?

I think this is a loose use of the term "better". Again, what I'm trying to articulate is that we have more than a 3-week sample size to work with. Let's look bigger picture for the two guys up until this moment.

Rantenen by the 2014-2015 season had the following stats:

Hlinka- 7 pts in 4 games
U17 WHC- 7 in 5
U18 WHC- 5 in 5
WJC- 4 in 5
Liiga- 40 in 108 (108 games in a men's league from 16 to 18!)
Jr A U20- 42 in 52 (when 16 to 18)
U18 SM- 23 in 29 (16, 17)
U16- 68 in 45 (when he was 14 and 15)

Vs Jarventie

Hlinka 1 pt in 3 games
U17 WHC- 1 in 6
U18 WHC- Not invited
WJC- remains to be seen
Liiga- 14 in 20 (amazing start, no disagreement at 17 and 18)
Jr A U20- 33 in 45 (17 and 18)
U18 SM- 43 in 18 (15 to 17)
U 16- 60 in 34 (14 and 15)
Mestis 38 in 36

I agree that Jarventie has had a better start to his 18-year-old season than Rantanen did. Incidentally, he also had more success when he was 15. But Rantanen consistently played in higher leagues faster, more international play, and was able to play in a men's league for years before Jarventie was able to make the jump.

Like I said it's very hard to use comparisons for Jarventie since he stayed back in Mestis so much longer than usual.

My point is that this 15 game sample size doesn't wipe all that away and it's "silly" to put the two or three weeks above the 3 years to this point. I don't think we're debating "facts" here. Just the most constructive use of those facts.

 

[BondraTime]

I think this is a loose use of the term "better". Again, what I'm trying to articulate is that we have more than a 3-week sample size to work with. Let's look bigger picture for the two guys up until this moment.

Rantenen by the 2014-2015 season had the following stats:

Hlinka- 7 pts in 4 games
U17 WHC- 7 in 5
U18 WHC- 5 in 5
WJC- 4 in 5
Liiga- 40 in 108 (108 games in a men's league from 16 to 18!)
Jr A U20- 42 in 52 (when 16 to 18)
U18 SM- 23 in 29 (16, 17)
U16- 68 in 45 (when he was 14 and 15)

Vs Jarventie

Hlinka 1 pt in 3 games
U17 WHC- 1 in 6
U18 WHC- Not invited
WJC- remains to be seen
Liiga- 14 in 20 (amazing start, no disagreement at 17 and 18)
Jr A U20- 33 in 45 (17 and 18)
U18 SM- 43 in 18 (15 to 17)
U 16- 60 in 34 (14 and 15)

I agree that Jarventie has had a better start to his 18-year-old season than Rantanen did. Incidentally, he also had more success when he was 15. But Rantanen consistently played in higher leagues faster, more international play, and was able to play in a men's league for years before Jarventie was able to make the jump.

Like I said it's very hard to use comparisons for Jarventie since he stayed back in Mestis so much longer than usual.

My point is that this 15 game sample size doesn't wipe all that away and it's "silly" to put the two or three weeks above the 3 years to this point. I don't think we're debating "facts" here. Just the most constructive use of those facts.

He wasn’t at the U18’s because there was no U18’s, not because he wasn’t invited.

“Jr A U20- 33 in 45 (17 and 18)” - He only played a total of 5 games as a 17 year old, and 0 games as an 18 year old, so this is not true. He played his 17 year old season in the Mestis, with 38 points in 35 games.

 

[Ippenator]

Do you think Järventie has what it takes to play center eventually, or is he better off being used as a goal scoring winger?

I was a bit thinking of this too. He’s really not too bad defensively in Liiga, and I really like his passing skills and hockey IQ. But at the moment I don’t think that he would do too well strength wise as a center in Liiga, let alone in the NHL. But maybe there could be that chance if some coach would be willing to try him there, and he could gradually start developing his skills towards it.

Would be interesting if they did some experimenting at the U20 WJC, like they did with Sebastian Aho at the 2015-2016 tournament where Finland won gold after all. The head coach Jukka Jalonen courageously tried Aho (who was before that a pretty much pure winger) as a center with the youngest wingers (Laine and Puljujärvi) in the team, and that line became almost immediately the real number one line for Finland in the tournament.

I’m definitely not counting at all for this to happen with Järventie, and anyway Finland has a different coach now, so no reason to believe in it really happening. But it would be for sure interesting if it would be tried at some point. If not at the WJC, then maybe in Liiga at some point this season. Not holding my breath on it though.

 

[Xspyrit]

I would be asbolutely shocked if the Sens tried to develop Jarventie as a center. Don't change what seems to be a winnng formula

And we don't really need centers for the future, unless we don't have 3 NHL top-9 centers in :

Stuetzle, Norris, Brown, White, Pinto, Greig, Paul/Chlapik

With Tierney and possibly Galchenyuk as stop gaps (personally don't see him as a Center)

I think this is a loose use of the term "better". Again, what I'm trying to articulate is that we have more than a 3-week sample size to work with. Let's look bigger picture for the two guys up until this moment.

Rantenen by the 2014-2015 season had the following stats:

Hlinka- 7 pts in 4 games
U17 WHC- 7 in 5
U18 WHC- 5 in 5
WJC- 4 in 5
Liiga- 40 in 108 (108 games in a men's league from 16 to 18!)
Jr A U20- 42 in 52 (when 16 to 18)
U18 SM- 23 in 29 (16, 17)
U16- 68 in 45 (when he was 14 and 15)

Vs Jarventie

Hlinka 1 pt in 3 games
U17 WHC- 1 in 6
U18 WHC- Not invited
WJC- remains to be seen
Liiga- 14 in 20 (amazing start, no disagreement at 17 and 18)
Jr A U20- 33 in 45 (17 and 18)
U18 SM- 43 in 18 (15 to 17)
U 16- 60 in 34 (14 and 15)

I agree that Jarventie has had a better start to his 18-year-old season than Rantanen did. Incidentally, he also had more success when he was 15. But Rantanen consistently played in higher leagues faster, more international play, and was able to play in a men's league for years before Jarventie was able to make the jump.

Like I said it's very hard to use comparisons for Jarventie since he stayed back in Mestis so much longer than usual.

My point is that this 15 game sample size doesn't wipe all that away and it's "silly" to put the two or three weeks above the 3 years to this point. I don't think we're debating "facts" here. Just the most constructive use of those facts.

I think everybody is aware that it is still a small 15 games sample size. But even in our wildest dreams, we couldn't have hoped to see Jarventie have a better Liiga debut. Let's compare with a recent early 2nd round Habs pick

Jesse Ylönen Drafted by: Montreal Canadiens, 2. round (#35 overall), in 2018 NHL Entry Draft

18 2017‑18 Espoo United Mestis 48 14 13 27
19 2018‑19 Pelicans Lahti Liiga 53 13 14 27
20 2019‑20 Pelicans Lahti Liiga 53 12 10 22
21 2020‑21 Pelicans Lahti Liiga 15 3 1 4

Do we see the difference?

When comparing with Rantanen, I was NOT comparing their whole life, solely their 18 y/o rookie season in the Liiga (and that's what Rafi was doing as well), there's nothing more to it and I'm not sure why you still don't undertand that.

It is a "look at both players 18 y/o Liiga season stats" situation and not a "Jarventie is going to be better!" situation and you are somehow assuming that

All that being said, hoping it's more clear now, what Jarventie has done prior to this year is now irrelevant. What is important is what he is doing now and will do tomorrow. Development isn't linear and as fans of a team that had crazy breakout players like Karlsson, Stone, Alfredsson, Zibanejad, etc, we should know that.

To conclude, again, nobody said we're not using a 15 games sample size, but the numbers that were presented are totally facts. If you disagree with that, well forgive me for leaving you alone on that island

As the season progresses, we will be able to compare Jarventie's 18 y/o Liiga numbers with all those players, the groundwork has been done.

 

[Bevans]

He wasn’t at the U18’s because there was no U18’s, not because he wasn’t invited.

“Jr A U20- 33 in 45 (17 and 18)” - He only played a total of 5 games as a 17 year old, and 0 games as an 18 year old, so this is not true. He played his 17 year old season in the Mestis, with 38 points in 35 games.

Elite classifies mestis as Jr A U20 as far as I can tell..scroll to the bottom summary there's no mestis section.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Elite classifies mestis as Jr A U20 as far as I can tell..scroll to the bottom summary there's no mestis section.

Here is Koovee's roster in Mestis. Note the birthdates of the players
KOOVEE at eliteprospects.com
You can see all the teams in Mestis and all the rosters on Eliteprospects. You can also see rosters for past years. Look at Koovee 2019-20

 

[BondraTime]

Elite classifies mestis as Jr A U20 as far as I can tell..scroll to the bottom summary there's no mestis section.

Mestis is a mens pro league

There is a Mestis section

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Elite classifies mestis as Jr A U20 as far as I can tell..scroll to the bottom summary there's no mestis section.

Mestis is most definitely a mens' professional league.

NHL is to AHL as Liiga is to Mestis. To the best of my knowledge at least.

 

[Bevans]

Mestis is a mens pro league

There is a Mestis section

You're right, but I was thrown off by your previous correction. In terms of JR A U20 his stats are listed as:

U20 SM-sarja (Jr. A SM-liiga)

3

45

16

17

33

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I guess we were both a little wrong and I became extra wrong trying to figure out U20.

It''s hard keeping all these Finn leagues straight.

 

[Bevans]

I would be asbolutely shocked if the Sens tried to develop Jarventie as a center. Don't change what seems to be a winnng formula

And we don't really need centers for the future, unless we don't have 3 NHL top-9 centers in :

Stuetzle, Norris, Brown, White, Pinto, Greig, Paul/Chlapik

With Tierney and possibly Galchenyuk as stop gaps (personally don't see him as a Center)



I think everybody is aware that it is still a small 15 games sample size. But even in our wildest dreams, we couldn't have hoped to see Jarventie have a better Liiga debut. Let's compare with a recent early 2nd round Habs pick

Jesse Ylönen Drafted by: Montreal Canadiens, 2. round (#35 overall), in 2018 NHL Entry Draft

18 2017‑18 Espoo United Mestis 48 14 13 27
19 2018‑19 Pelicans Lahti Liiga 53 13 14 27
20 2019‑20 Pelicans Lahti Liiga 53 12 10 22
21 2020‑21 Pelicans Lahti Liiga 15 3 1 4

Do we see the difference?

When comparing with Rantanen, I was NOT comparing their whole life, solely their 18 y/o rookie season in the Liiga (and that's what Rafi was doing as well), there's nothing more to it and I'm not sure why you still don't undertand that.

It is a "look at both players 18 y/o Liiga season stats" situation and not a "Jarventie is going to be better!" situation and you are somehow assuming that

All that being said, hoping it's more clear now, what Jarventie has done prior to this year is now irrelevant. What is important is what he is doing now and will do tomorrow. Development isn't linear and as fans of a team that had crazy breakout players like Karlsson, Stone, Alfredsson, Zibanejad, etc, we should know that.

To conclude, again, nobody said we're not using a 15 games sample size, but the numbers that were presented are totally facts. If you disagree with that, well forgive me for leaving you alone on that island

As the season progresses, we will be able to compare Jarventie's 18 y/o Liiga numbers with all those players, the groundwork has been done.

Well in every single post I acknowledged that these 15 games have been better than Rantenen's first 15 D-1 games. If that's all you want out of a comparator then I guess I just disagree with the value of your parameters. I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment but have at it.