Post-Game Talk: #33 - 12/16/19 | predators @ RANGERS

[Machinehead]

Ross Johnston was /is on Isle 1st line quite recently . Not sure where Reaves/MacDermid play . I assume Wilson is over and above this conversation despite still being a goon ? Kassian also a hitman and first liner . There are a few around still playing and providing needed muscle and snarl despite what some say . Last time I looked teams with the above all doing rather OK with most of these guys in most games with MacDermid being the odd one out...

Johnston and MacDermid have a combined 9 goals in their collective NHL careers. They're bonafide dinosaur goons.

Kassian has one fight the entire season. If we're counting him, we're counting Lemieux.

The only players "heavier" than Lemieux that are actual players are Wilson, Reaves, and Lucic.

 

[will1066]

Well said and couldn't agree more with you. Oh and how bout this novel idea and quit being cute and play Panarin on the off wing instead of Kakko who doesn't even want to shoot it on the PP and would rather pass it for christs sake so we can take advantage of Breads one timer which tho it isn't Ovechkin, it's pretty damn lethal.

I don't care if Bread requested to not play on the off wing as someone in here said he told Quinn. Whether or not it's true or not, Quinn needs to make an executive decision and make the obvious decision and put Panarin in the best place to do damage which is on the off wing on the PP...enough of this BS!!

I agree, except for me, Panarin can do whatever he wants. He has carte blanche, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Machinehead]

It's the mentality they're looking for. Don't push us around, we push back harder. If the other team doesn't answer the bell fighting, np, crunch them into the boards a few more times and they'll probably be more interested then. Really, had Rangers responded properly and Lemieux wasn't neutered by the Refs I don't think ppl would be clamoring for more fights and enforcers.

We do push back. We've done it many times this year.

The debate here is whether or not we're scary enough when we're doing it which is silly.

 

[will1066]

We do push back. We've done it many times this year.

The debate here is whether or not we're scary enough when we're doing it which is silly.

The team can't go from 0 to 60 in this department. There has to be some kind of middle. Most of this team actively avoids finishing checks. Fighting majors and standing up to right a wrong bears little context here. There's very little physicality other than Haley fighting a peer of his. It's no wonder that the league doens't consider us a tough team to play against.

Using the quote from 1986 Aliens: What are we supposed to do, use harsh language?

 

[romba]

We do push back. We've done it many times this year.

The debate here is whether or not we're scary enough when we're doing it which is silly.

We didn't push back against Nashville which is what spawned this debate. Had we pushed back and responded, even with our 'diminutive' tough guys, no one would begging for Colton Joltin' 'Colt .45' Orr to come out of retirement

 

[Machinehead]

We didn't push back against Nashville which is what spawned this debate. Had we pushed back and responded, even with our 'diminutive' tough guys, no one would begging for Colton Joltin' 'Colt .45' Orr to come out of retirement

If the referees didn't have their worst game in the NHL this season, we wouldn't be having this debate.

It's a non-issue.

 

[Machinehead]

The team can't go from 0 to 60 in this department. There has to be some kind of middle. Most of this team actively avoids finishing checks. Fighting majors and standing up to right a wrong bears little context here. There's very little physicality other than Haley fighting a peer of his. It's no wonder that the league doens't consider us a tough team to play against.

Using the quote from 1986 Aiiens: What are we supposed to do, use harsh language?

The Rangers are 13th in hits (not heavy, but certainly not lacking physicality) and lead the league in fighting majors.

If the Rangers are easy to play against it's because...

*descends from the rafters with a microphone and a spotlight*

♪THEY NEVER HAVE THE f***ING PUCK!!♪

*bows* thank you.

 

[will1066]

The Rangers are 13th in hits (not heavy, but certainly not lacking physicality) and lead the league in fighting majors.

If the Rangers are easy to play against it's because...

*descends from the rafters with a microphone and a spotlight*

♪THEY NEVER HAVE THE ****ING PUCK!!♪

*bows* thank you.

You have a point. Not gonna lie.

Where are those hits taking place? I guess not when trying to separate the opponent from the puck. Or maybe they're not hitting hard enough.

 

[Machinehead]

You have a point. Not gonna lie.

Where are those hits taking place? I guess not when trying to separate the opponent from the puck. Or maybe they're not hitting hard enough.

Because Quinn likes hitting for the sake of hitting (like most of this board) not hitting to gain possession.

 

[will1066]

Because Quinn likes hitting for the sake of hitting (like most of this board) not hitting to gain possession.

#wenevergetgoodhitting
#usehittingrightquinn

 

[Irishguy42]

Because Quinn likes hitting for the sake of hitting (like most of this board) not hitting to gain possession.

These usually have no useful correlation though



Now, if you mean actual puck possession as opposed to just getting shot attempts, then you might be onto something.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

These usually have no useful correlation though



Now, if you mean actual puck possession as opposed to just getting shot attempts, then you might be onto something.

Pretty sure he means separating the player from the puck so that your team gains possession.

 

[Irishguy42]

Pretty sure he means separating the player from the puck so that your team gains possession.

See my sentence below the tweet

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

See my sentence below the tweet

I did. You phrased it as if you were unsure of his meaning and I was trying to clarify.

 

[Machinehead]

These usually have no useful correlation though



Now, if you mean actual puck possession as opposed to just getting shot attempts, then you might be onto something.

There's no correlation but we have seen teams like the Kings use their brutality along the boards to drive possession and shot attempts.

Then again, that could have just been Sutter's system or some other factor. There certainly isn't any inherent causation there.

 

[Machinehead]

"Hitting" is also a subjective term and I've always believed that while hard forechecking is a useful skill, the actual intensity of said hits isn't that important.

Things like "fear" don't appear to translate to relevant hockey outcomes given that some of the scariest players are also some of the worst. And if "fear" is a thing, it's not repeatable or obtainable.

Yeah, it sucks we don't have Tom Wilson. It also sucks we don't have Connor McDavid.

 

[Larrybiv]

Kakko and Buch have been given a ton of opportunity to fill the rw slots on the top two lines but neither has been good enough to warrant a spot there so now we have a center and a lw playing rw in our top 6, Quinn I'm sure would rather not have to do that. Those two guys are forcing Quinn to make lines he would rather not have to make. Personally I felt Kakko should have stayed with Lemieux on the 3rd line as he was starting to play better there but everyone wanted to force him into the top 6. For me the Panarin strome Fast line was playing well when Mika was out why not just go back to that. I'm not a huge fan of Fast in the top six but it was effective so why not.

Panarin Strome Fast
Kreider Zibanajad Buchnevich
Lemieux Chytil Kakko
Smith Howden Mckegg

All FOR your reasoning. Quinn obviously DOES want to do that, when all he has to do is STOP trying to make a perfect 4 lines. Simplify and go what has worked previously.
We are top 10 offensively, but let's face it......we wouldn't be if our d corps wasn't contributing the way they have. Our forwards have been less than.....obviously not Panarin, Zbad and Strome's doing.

 

[Larrybiv]

Maybe not fear, but they are absolutely aware that they will have to answer the bell if they step over the line. If you don't understand that concept, I really don't know what to tell you.

And again I will state that it doesnt "have to be" just 1 player defending other players.
Say Wilson crosses the line and "more importantly" get away with it via lousy reffing.......than why not have team unity and thro without the rest of the game MULTIPLE players go after him, a little bit at a time. Bite, bits, bits until he breaks or at the very least gets the message......that we will not be bullied.

 

[will1066]

"Hitting" is also a subjective term and I've always believed that while hard forechecking is a useful skill, the actual intensity of said hits isn't that important.

Things like "fear" don't appear to translate to relevant hockey outcomes given that some of the scariest players are also some of the worst. And if "fear" is a thing, it's not repeatable or obtainable.

Yeah, it sucks we don't have Tom Wilson. It also sucks we don't have Connor McDavid.

Maybe there isn't "fear" but there's--and I hate using these terms--sandpaper and grit. These elements bother players and definitely throw them off and make an impact on the game. On the forecheck, rather than going in straighter, more direct lines, we love doing the fly-bys with the little poke check to try to nudge the puck away, as opposed to really trying to separate it from the puck handler.

 

[Larrybiv]

Teams don't skate around in "fear" of anyone.

It's not going to stop the Tom Wilson's from throwing cheapshots, or stop any player from assaulting Jesper Fast if that's what they want to do.

If that is me right beside Jesper......I crosscheck the guy from behind telling him to get the f*** off my teammate. That is what is disappointing, but then again, that's just me.
Could it possibly be that "we" (meaning the Rangers) expect the refs to see what "we saw" and penalize accordingly? Btw, how did J esper get a penalty? Absurd.

 

[Larrybiv]

Ross Johnston was /is on Isle 1st line quite recently . Not sure where Reaves/MacDermid play . I assume Wilson is over and above this conversation despite still being a goon ? Kassian also a hitman and first liner . There are a few around still playing and providing needed muscle and snarl despite what some say . Last time I looked teams with the above all doing rather OK with most of these guys in most games with MacDermid being the odd one out...

Agree and we have all been over this 1,000 times.
If coach "x" has 2 superstars on a line, doesn't It make sense that there might be a "need" for a player tough enough to persuade opponents from cheap shotting such valuable players? Thijng is, everyone would want this tough player to actually be able to "play" and be a positive enough player to NOT be a negative, towards point production for those 2. Thing is, 2here are these "valuable" players?
For me.......originally I thought players such as Marchand and especially Tom Wilson were simply "goons or assholes" to play against. Obviously I was wrong and would LOVE to have either, or our own version of them.

 

[Larrybiv]

I will say that one concern that is starting to creep in for me regarding Quinn is that I feel like I am starting to see a coach who is focusing on winning the battles more than winning the war.

It's subtle, and it's not all the time. But it's little things like allowing one too many free passes for the other team because it was a tight game. Or being so focused on winning a game now, that you don't explore opportunities that could yield a greater benefit over a longer period of time.

Don't get me wrong, I get it. You can't throw the game out the window seeking revenge, and you ice the team you think gives you a chance to win. But how different is the story today if Buch is concussed and had to miss time? How many points beyond the two in Nashville does that cost us? How much longer does the short-term impact of McGeneric or Fast on a top line outweigh longer term needs?

That is something I am going to be keeping an eye on.

That is EXACTLY what I said earlier. Only you said it much better about the battle/war thing. Being shortsighted and desperate for those 2 points, really does hurt in the long run. I was VERY wary that we would be a similar p***yfoot team that AV iced. Please, please tell me this isn't what is happening. We have way too much talent for us to get manhandled.
Back to the Fast drubbing, why didn't he get the f*** up and police his own bashing? The refs obviously didnt do it! Would he have gotten bashed by Quinn for retaliating and defending himself? Please.....tell me no.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Thinking outside the box here but would a Mark Borowieki(expiring contract, could resign cheap for toughness or let walk) for Staal (some salary retained) and a 3rd. Ottawa gets a 3rd rounder and a roster filler for next year, we get some toughness now and open up a spot for a younger player next year and some cap relief without a buyout. Borowieki can play forward as well like Smith so if you wanted to keep him on the cheap and play him fourth line mins for some grit you could, or if one of our left dmen werent ready he could play there.

 

[Machinehead]

Maybe there isn't "fear" but there's--and I hate using these terms--sandpaper and grit. These elements bother players and definitely throw them off and make an impact on the game. On the forecheck, rather than going in straighter, more direct lines, we love doing the fly-bys with the little poke check to try to nudge the puck away, as opposed to really trying to separate it from the puck handler.

Ok, then Lemieux can just do those things and we don't need to be bigger and scarier.

 

[Irishguy42]

Ok, then Lemieux can just do those things and we don't need to be bigger and scarier.

Nah dude. Don't you see? Everyone on the roster needs to inspire fear because of how tough they are. Except for Panarin. He's here to be the skill guy.