Post-Game Talk: #32 - 03/25/21 | Rangers vs. Flyers | 7:00 PM EST - MSG

[Chytilmania]

But why are we getting this Zibanejad now as opposed to before? That's the question that needs answering. And with him playing this way again it's a trickle down effect.

Zibanejad gave his COVID to Quinn.

 

[Raspewtin]

Either way that's not really making the case that there has been substantial change in production other than luck.

were you replying to someone I have on ignore then?

 

[smoneil]

This is hilarious. For those who don't have a subscription to theAthletic, it's this week's NHL power rankings. The bottom three are:

Buffalo
That boat that got shipwrecked
and Philly, which was somehow a bigger shipwreck than that boat.

"32. Philadelphia Flyers
Last week: 16
Record: 15-13-4, 34 points
Dom rank: 32
Sean rank: 32
Dom: It should be very hard to be more embarrassing than the Sabres, but the Flyers found a way by managing to allow eight goals in one game and nine goals in another in the span of eight days. There was a 6-1 loss sprinkled in-between too. I can’t remember the last time I saw a run of defence and goaltending this pathetic, but in all likelihood, it probably also involved the Flyers. That position is cursed in Philadelphia.
Sean: Did anyone photoshop Gritty on That Boat yet? Probably. If not, I’m gonna make it into an NFT and get rich as hell. Thank you, Carter Hart."

 

[aufheben]

The difference is the team played like shit under Quinn, and started playing well under Knob. Even that loss to Washington, Rangers were the better team. Those are the facts. What the cause is, well we'll have to see. A Knob coached game against Pittsburgh would be a great experiment.

This is box score evaluation and nothing else, and no one who watched Lundqvist steal every other game for a decade should subscribe to it unless ironically.

 

[duhmetreE]

I agree. Zib is a game breaking talent when he is on. The entire team has a different complexion when he’s at the top of his game.

I think a lot of people made up their mind about Quinn and ignore evidence that he’s done some good things. People look at laf’s lack of production as some sort of indictment instead of just watching the kid and seeing that he’s just not a complete player yet.

I believe most admitted Quinn has his strengths and his purpose ( it was a much smoother ride his first 2 seasons ). BUT When the team is underachieving, as they have been.. who's the first person going to get criticized? Maybe my expectations are much different than other people but I expected an improvement on last season.

Criticizing Quinn does not mean he can't get anything right. Criticizing the PP doesn't mean they can't score PP goals. Criticizing a player does not mean they suck. It's not all or nothing.

Unfortunately, there's no more debate, you're put in a box and labeled.

 

[aufheben]

This is hilarious. For those who don't have a subscription to theAthletic, it's this week's NHL power rankings. The bottom three are:

Buffalo
That boat that got shipwrecked
and Philly, which was somehow a bigger shipwreck than that boat.

"32. Philadelphia Flyers
Last week: 16
Record: 15-13-4, 34 points
Dom rank: 32
Sean rank: 32
Dom: It should be very hard to be more embarrassing than the Sabres, but the Flyers found a way by managing to allow eight goals in one game and nine goals in another in the span of eight days. There was a 6-1 loss sprinkled in-between too. I can’t remember the last time I saw a run of defence and goaltending this pathetic, but in all likelihood, it probably also involved the Flyers. That position is cursed in Philadelphia.
Sean: Did anyone photoshop Gritty on That Boat yet? Probably. If not, I’m gonna make it into an NFT and get rich as hell. Thank you, Carter Hart."

LOL I was just coming to post from that same article:

 

[Leetch94]

Say what you will about Lemeaux but he does wear a Rangers jersey and I'm sick of seeing him get pummeled by guys a foot taller than him. I know this isn't popular here but I wouldn't mind seeing others teams goons have to deal with someone their size.

 

[Raspewtin]

Say what you will about Lemeaux but he does wear a Rangers jersey and I'm sick of seeing him get pummeled by guys a foot taller than him. I know this isn't popular here but I wouldn't mind seeing others teams goons have to deal with someone their size.

????

Lemieux has won fights against plenty of bigger guys

 

[Leetch94]

????

Lemieux has won fights against plenty of bigger guys

Tom Wilson lit him up pretty good, that guy last night towered over him. That reach advantage is tough to get around.

 

[Raspewtin]

Tom Wilson lit him up pretty good, that guy last night towered over him. That reach advantage is tough to get around.

Tom Wilson landed like 2 punches lol go watch that fight again.

Morin isn't an NHLer and is one of like 2 guys in the league at that size. he should be of no concern.

 

[Leetch94]

Tom Wilson landed like 2 punches lol go watch that fight again.

Morin isn't an NHLer and is one of like 2 guys in the league at that size. he should be of no concern.

I suppose my hate for the Flyers might be affecting my perception LOL.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

This is box score evaluation and nothing else, and no one who watched Lundqvist steal every other game for a decade should subscribe to it unless ironically.

Nah. I’ve watched every game . Maybe it’s just the opponents we’ve faced. But it’s noticeable

 

[aufheben]

Nah. I’ve watched every game . Maybe it’s just the opponents we’ve faced. But it’s noticeable

Goals in hockey games throw objectivity out the window.

Come on, like, I have literally not shut up about Puck Luck for that last two months and now they score a few goals finally and everything has changed?

 

[Fitzy]

Say what you will about Lemeaux but he does wear a Rangers jersey and I'm sick of seeing him get pummeled by guys a foot taller than him. I know this isn't popular here but I wouldn't mind seeing others teams goons have to deal with someone their size.

I mean, agitator's job is gonna lead to them getting chased. I'm not sure signing a big fighter onto our roster is gonna do much to deal with that.

He knows, and so he knows to keep his head up. Losing a fair fight isn't going to end his career.

 

[aufheben]

You know that I genuinely hope what everyone’s saying is true, though, right? Why is that? Because then we’ve improved our coaching and our team for free.

Goals are a blip in the events of 60:00 of professional hockey. What are the players doing during the other 59:45 when they’re not shooting the puck into the net? Nothing? Candy Crush?

And unless you’re literally logging every game in a journal, you’ve most likely forgotten 90% of what happened during a game a couple minutes after it ended.

The Rangers didn’t solve Carter Hart either, he’s terrible against every other team too. The Flyers have been a trainwreck since that Montreal series.

 

[Edge]

Is it fair to discredit what we did to the Flyers, as a team, then use Mika's individual success, against that same team, as a reason to why we're winning? It should be both or none, no?

We hung with Washington, who have been surging since late February, ( should have taken both games, the breakdown is something I can live and IMO is the patience we talk about, for a 'young team' ).

IMO it just further illustrates we have underachieved greatly this season. At this point, I don't think it's debatable. Why? is the question everyone has been debating. Going to timing again, is it not interesting that we stopped underachieving the day Quinn is away from the team? There's obviously not 1 single issue... but a lot of the 'issues' happened to leave with Quinn. Is it coincidence? or did it spark a new found urgency with the players? I don't think that should be easily dismissed.

For starters I tend to think we're more or less where I, and others, thought we'd be. Coming into the year I thought we had a tough division, a lot depended on guys keeping up with their career years, and that were likely to get off to a slow start. All of those things have been factors thus far.

To your point, I've been annoyingly consistent in my belief that the biggest difference this season is Zibanejad. I said that when we were losing, and I've stuck with when we're winning. And while much of the team has looked more or less the same, as we were reminded in the last game, I don't think it's just circumstance that when Zibanejad is scoring at a 8 goal, 30 point pace we're losing, and when he's scoring 6 goals and 12 points in two games we're winning.

Is that because Quinn is out?

No, I really don't believe that. I think Zibanejad is was slowly recovering from the effects of COVID and his play has been steadily building up steam for a month now --- until he's now more or less back 100 percent.

I also think Zibanejad's play is doing a good job of distracting people from the same flaws that existed three weeks ago on many nights. For me it's not that any of those problems have gone away, it's just much easier to watch a game when someone like Zibanejad is going into God mode.

 

[Edge]

I agree. Zib is a game breaking talent when he is on. The entire team has a different complexion when he’s at the top of his game.

I think a lot of people made up their mind about Quinn and ignore evidence that he’s done some good things. People look at laf’s lack of production as some sort of indictment instead of just watching the kid and seeing that he’s just not a complete player yet.

I guess if Zibanejad hadn't played like this before, under Quinn, I could potentially buy into the notion that there's something tied to Z's production resulting from DQ's absence.

But the fact that Zibanejad hit that level under Quinn, and several guys had career years under Quinn, and are now trending back to the levels they were, doesn't really make me think, "Ah, Quinn was the reason for their decline this season."

We're not even using different deployments or systems out there. Honestly, the key difference is Zibanejad is scoring like a mad man so no one is bitching about Laf and Kakko's useage, or why Lemieux is out there when he is, or the same exact things they'd be bitching about if DQ was on the bench.

It's literally the same system, the same pros and cons. The difference is Zibanejad looking like his normal self instead of the late Rick Nash.

 

[Fitzy]

I'm fine with the kids growing into their heavier usage over time.

We're already paying our veterans top dollar, so putting them out on the top PP isn't going to inflate their future contracts.

If we were leaning on Lafreniere and Kakko on the PP right now and Panarin was feeding them goals, they'd be a hell of a lot more expensive to re-sign.

Keep the cost down and rotate the young guys into bigger roles over time. It won't get you any fancy articles about the next Crosby or McDavid, but it's a good way to build a sustained contender.

We don't have the luxury of sheltering Fox the way we do Kakko Lafrenier and Chytil, however, because there's lest NHL depth there ATM. And we are gonna end up paying a premium on Fox's extension as a consequence. But, having Fox and Trouba and Lindgren might save us paying Robertson, Lundkvist, Schneider big contracts because they will likely get to play more sheltered third pairing roles early on.

You look at the organization depth mixed with veteran talent on this roster and it's hard not to get excited. You can kin dof see how the ten year plan could roll out.

 

[duhmetreE]

I guess if Zibanejad hadn't played like this before, under Quinn, I could potentially buy into the notion that there's something tied to Z's production resulting from DQ's absence.

But the fact that Zibanejad hit that level under Quinn, and several guys had career years under Quinn, and are now trending back to the levels they were, doesn't really make me think, "Ah, Quinn was the reason for their decline this season."

We're not even using different deployments or systems out there. Honestly, the key difference is Zibanejad is scoring like a mad man so no one is bitching about Laf and Kakko's useage, or why Lemieux is out there when he is, or the same exact things they'd be bitching about if DQ was on the bench.

It's literally the same system, the same pros and cons. The difference is Zibanejad looking like his normal self instead of the late Rick Nash.

Is it the same system? ( compared to previous years? ) If so, why is the team executing better now? Why do they no longer hesitate? or come out with those dreaded zombie periods/games? Yes, it's a small sample size but it's a complete 180 from what it was the previous year. We've been consistent. It's just a coincidence? Effort/'swagger' was tied to Mika scoring goals? It most definitely helps when your #1C and the player you're giving all primo minutes to, stops flubbing. Especially on the PP, considering a lot was setup for him. I get that.

As you touched on, playing well/winning covers up a lot of the deficiencies. When we've been under performing/losing, those deficiencies are magnified. We're winning right now. The team is buzzing. We look like a rich mans, 2019 NYR. Are you not curious at all, of the timing?

Was it too much thinking on the ice? Over coaching/over analyzing? We can say 'its the same system' but it looks nothing like it. I'm talking about the entire team, not just Mika. The difference over the past year or so, compared to the previous 2 seasons, was just, 'Mika goes boom'? Mika also breaks out on that exact same day? There's a lot of coincidences. We've played without Mika before and the dynamic of the team was not drastically different. We even played well and won without him last season

We're relentless again, as Quinn preached when he first got here. As we were, his first 2 seasons. Attacking and proactive instead of hesitant and reactive. We're all having fun, again. You don't see that difference? nor question why?

 

[Edge]

Is it the same system? ( compared to previous years? ) If so, why is the team executing better now? Why do they no longer hesitate? or come out with those dreaded zombie periods/games? Yes, it's a small sample size but it's a complete 180 from what it was the previous year. We've been consistent. It's just a coincidence? Effort/'swagger' was tied to Mika scoring goals? It most definitely helps when your #1C and the player you're giving all primo minutes to, stops flubbing. Especially on the PP, considering a lot was setup for him. I get that.

As you touched on, playing well/winning covers up a lot of the deficiencies. When we've been under performing/losing, those deficiencies are magnified. We're winning right now. The team is buzzing. We look like a rich mans, 2019 NYR. Are you not curious at all, of the timing?

Was it too much thinking on the ice? Over coaching/over analyzing? We can say 'its the same system' but it looks nothing like it. I'm talking about the entire team, not just Mika. The difference over the past year or so, compared to the previous 2 seasons, was just, 'Mika goes boom'? Mika also breaks out on that exact same day? There's a lot of coincidences. We've played without Mika before and the dynamic of the team was not drastically different. We even played well and won without him last season

We're relentless again, as Quinn preached when he first got here. As we were, his first 2 seasons. Attacking and proactive instead of hesitant and reactive. We're all having fun, again. You don't see that difference? nor question why?

I see a lot of the same from just about everyone other than Zibanejad. I see a team that won 6 of 8, before losing its starting goalie. I see a lot of the same guys playing the same before DQ went out, with the added bonus of having Zibanejad doing something Gretzky-esque.

You see a completely different system. I don't. I see the same system, with Zibanejad healthy. Which is exactly what we discussed on here prior.

When you look at this roster, do you honestly think that Knob has Zibanejad shooting at a 30 percent clip? Or utilizing a strategy that has Philly goalies incapable of stopping more than 65 percent of the shots they face?

If so, why is Hartford's record not mirroring what Knob has done in the NHL?

 

[aufheben]

If so, why is Hartford's record not mirroring what Knob has done in the NHL?

Well if we lose 6-straight it will be lol