Post-Game Talk: #32 - 03/25/21 | Rangers vs. Flyers | 7:00 PM EST - MSG

[Edge]

Funny how both of those things happen when Quinn isn’t behind the bench, huh?

Not really, we've played the flyers twice and scored 17 goals. Right before Quinn went into protocol, we also scored 4 goals in a losing effort against them. So in three games, all within a 10 day span, we've scored 21 goals against them.

We split two games against the Caps - winning 3-1 and losing 2-1. The other game was a 5-3 win against the lowly Sabres.

I think the bigger takeaway is that win or lose we post offense against the Flyers, and that Zibanejad and solid goaltending go a long way to giving this team a chance to win.

To that last point, it's the same thing we've talked about for two months.

If anything, while some are viewing this as theoretically making a point about Quinn, I think it actually misses the bigger takeaway about the importance of Zibanejad.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Not really, we've played the flyers twice and scored 17 goals. Right before Quinn went into protocol, we also scored 4 goals in a losing effort against them. So in three games, all within a 10 day span, we've scored 21 goals against them.

We split two games against the Caps - winning 3-1 and losing 2-1. The other game was a 5-3 win against the lowly Sabres.

I think the bigger takeaway is that win or lose we post offense against the Flyers, and that Zibanejad and solid goaltending go a long way to giving this team a chance to win.

To that last point, it's the same thing we've talked about for two months.

If anything, while some are viewing this as theoretically making a point about Quinn, I think it actually misses the bigger takeaway about the importance of Zibanejad.

Edge my point is not that it’s making point about Quinn, but just the fact that you can see on the ice the guys are playing looser and not having to worry about being micromanaged. I don’t even think it’s anything that Knoblauch is even doing I just think they are playing without worrying as much as they would. They literally have the associate GM behind them and they are playing looser. Yeah the Flyers stink right now, but it’s not like we beat them in one goal games. Yes we lost in Washington but the one game they lost was one of their best defensive performances of the season and then then beat them, and Washington is good. Yeah they beat the Sabres but that game was a FAR cry from the last Sabres win under Quinn where they barely escaped the game. This has been hands down their best stretch of the season by far. I truly hope it carries along when Quinn returns. But I don’t think it’s disingenuous to point out that this team is doing the best it has all season while Quinn isn’t there.

 

[mas0764]

And Spooner was the ONLY thing we saw at the time in exchange for Nasher.
Thats what u call a good return on an investment.

Should tell you something about the value of "futures."

Don't die on the hill of needing immediate impact if the futures are better value.

 

[Edge]

Edge my point is not that it’s making point about Quinn, but just the fact that you can see on the ice the guys are playing looser and not having to worry about being micromanaged. I don’t even think it’s anything that Knoblauch is even doing I just think they are playing without worrying as much as they would. They literally have the associate GM behind them and they are playing looser. Yeah the Flyers stink right now, but it’s not like we beat them in one goal games. Yes we lost in Washington but the one game they lost was one of their best defensive performances of the season and then then beat them, and Washington is good. Yeah they beat the Sabres but that game was a FAR cry from the last Sabres win under Quinn where they barely escaped the game. This has been hands down their best stretch of the season by far. I truly hope it carries along when Quinn returns. But I don’t think it’s disingenuous to point out that this team is doing the best it has all season while Quinn isn’t there.

See now I don't know if I agree with that.

I think Zibanejad is doing his best. Who else is really playing all that different?

The guys who weren't scoring under Quinn still aren't scoring.

The guys who were scoring under Quinn are still scoring.

Outside of the Flyers, we split two modest scoring games against the caps. And we were able to out-score the Sabres in a game that featured 8 total goals.

We went 6-2 under Quinn, before a three game slide that featured our second and third string goalies.

I think my problem with this argument is that it leaves a ton of context. Like, hey our first line center is scoring at an EA sports type pace right now and our goaltending isn't letting in soul-crushing goals, and our starting goalie is now back.

Honestly the biggest change for this team isn't that it's playing differently without Quinn, it's that Zibanejad is playing as the 2019-20 version of himself and shooting close to 30 percent. I mean when one guy can post 3 goals and 6 points, twice, against the same team, there's pretty solid odds we're going to win those games.

We get the same early version of Zibanejad, we probably get eerily similar version results as well.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

See now I don't know if I agree with that.

I think Zibanejad is doing his best. Who else is really playing all that different?

The guys who weren't scoring under Quinn still aren't scoring.

The guys who were scoring under Quinn are still scoring.

Outside of the Flyers, we split two modest scoring games against the caps. And we were able to out-score the Sabres in a game that featured 8 total goals.

We went 6-2 under Quinn, before a three game slide that featured our second and third string goalies.

I think my problem with this argument is that it leaves a ton of context. Like, hey our first line center is scoring at an EA sports type pace right now and our goaltending isn't letting in soul-crushing goals, and our starting goalie is now back.

Honestly the biggest change for this team isn't that it's playing differently without Quinn, it's that Zibanejad is playing as the 2019-20 version of himself and shooting close to 30 percent. I mean when one guy can post 3 goals and 6 points, twice, against the same team, there's pretty solid odds we're going to win those games.

We get the same early version of Zibanejad, we probably get eerily similar version results as well.

But why are we getting this Zibanejad now as opposed to before? That's the question that needs answering. And with him playing this way again it's a trickle down effect.

Again, I don't even think Knoblauch is doing anything. I think he's rolling 4 lines and 3 D-pairs and trying not to get in the way and I think that's been huge for this team because Quinn has a tendency to micromanage. I think that has allowed this team to play like they aren't worried if they make a bad pinch that Brett Howden is gonna get their ice time.

I hope like hell they continue to play like this once Quinn is back, even if the playoffs are a long shot. But perhaps Quinn could use this as a bit of a learning experience too.

 

[mas0764]

We don't always agree. Hell, we rarely agree. But what I respect about you is that you admit when you are wrong.

Absolutely agree. Wouldn't touch Eichel with a 39 1/2 foot pole. He is going to be the C version of Taylor Hall. A perpetual loser.

I don't know if I agree I'd stay completely away, but maybe the lesson here is, he should be targeted as part of an elite center pairing, instead of being your lead 1C without any support; in which case it means the deal really has to make sense and you can't give away your top, top assets.

 

[Edge]

But why are we getting this Zibanejad now as opposed to before? That's the question that needs answering. And with him playing this way again it's a trickle down effect.

Again, I don't even think Knoblauch is doing anything. I think he's rolling 4 lines and 3 D-pairs and trying not to get in the way and I think that's been huge for this team because Quinn has a tendency to micromanage. I think that has allowed this team to play like they aren't worried if they make a bad pinch that Brett Howden is gonna get their ice time.

I hope like hell they continue to play like this once Quinn is back, even if the playoffs are a long shot. But perhaps Quinn could use this as a bit of a learning experience too.

We are getting this version now because its the continuation of how Zibanejad was trending and recovering.

From Feb. 20 to March 15, Zibanejad was starting to resemble himself as he posted 9 points in 15 games, including 5 in 7 before right before the Flyers games. In other words, he was already regaining his career year form, which also happened under Quinn. It didn't just suddenly happen when Quinn got sick.

 

[kovazub94]

We are getting this version now because its the continuation of how Zibanejad was trending and recovering.

From Feb. 20 to March 15, Zibanejad was starting to resemble himself as he posted 9 points in 15 games, including 5 in 7 before right before the Flyers games. In other words, he was already regaining his career year form, which also happened under Quinn. It didn't just suddenly happen when Quinn got sick.

Word. And Zibanejad was also generating even bigger number of high danger chances but the puck just wasn't going in.

This trend has been MENTIONED on this board but, like a lot of good points and observations recently, has been IGNORED.

 

[True Blue]

OR, and here’s a big kicker, they are all playing better under a different coach who doesn’t micromanage their every move? Could be that.

Your perpetual argument of “it’s always the players fault” is blowing up in your face in real time and I’m here for it and loving every minute of it.

Have to love it.

Quinn does not shake things up.....HF: No in game adjustments.
Knoblauch not shaking things up.....HF: He's great. He is not micromanaging.

Quinn walks across the Hudson....HF: See, he blows. Couldn't fly.

Given that they are basically playing the exact same way and the only changes is solid goaltending, Mika finding his game and Panarin returning after 10 games, yeah going with the fact that who was behind the bench executing the same exact system, did not really matter.

Also, considering I have not felt anything blow up in my face, you can continue to be right there and love every minute of it. Simple minds find simple pleasures.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Quinn does not shake things up.....HF: No in game adjustments.

The cognitive dissonance here is astounding. Quinn flips more lines than Tom Renney did.

 

[Kodiak]

But why are we getting this Zibanejad now as opposed to before? That's the question that needs answering. And with him playing this way again it's a trickle down effect.

Again, I don't even think Knoblauch is doing anything. I think he's rolling 4 lines and 3 D-pairs and trying not to get in the way and I think that's been huge for this team because Quinn has a tendency to micromanage. I think that has allowed this team to play like they aren't worried if they make a bad pinch that Brett Howden is gonna get their ice time.

I hope like hell they continue to play like this once Quinn is back, even if the playoffs are a long shot. But perhaps Quinn could use this as a bit of a learning experience too.

I do not understand the basis for this line of thinking. Zibanejad has had consistent ice time for the entire year except for one in-game benching. His TOI has been over 18 minutes for 29 out of 32 games. He gets top PP and PK time. And this was all while he was playing like dogshit for most of the season. He clearly had an incredibly long leash to find his game. He may be the last player to be worried about ice time.

The players getting inconsistent ice were the young guys and the depth guys. For the most part, they are not performing any differently under Knoblauch. This run is being carried by Zibanejad, Panarin, Strome, Buchnevich, and Fox. Except for Zibanejad, all of those players were performing as well under Quinn.

 

[True Blue]

The cognitive dissonance here is astounding. Quinn flips more lines than Tom Renney did.

So does he make adjustments or doesn't he? Can't really have it both ways.

Same goes for the system.

HF: Quinn sucks there is no system.
HF: Knoblauch is great. He is running Quinn's system better than Quinn did.

Wait a minute. I thought that Quinn had no system?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

We are getting this version now because its the continuation of how Zibanejad was trending and recovering.

From Feb. 20 to March 15, Zibanejad was starting to resemble himself as he posted 9 points in 15 games, including 5 in 7 before right before the Flyers games. In other words, he was already regaining his career year form, which also happened under Quinn. It didn't just suddenly happen when Quinn got sick.

I get that, but I'm not sure he was trending to have 12 points including 6 goals in two games against a team. I don't think anyone thought he'd trend all the way back to last season which everyone said he wasn't going to have this year regardless.

I am extremely interested in seeing how this team plays once Quinn is back full time, I hope to be very wrong. We're at 6 games now without him and it is hands down the best they've looked and played all season. Let's see them continue this and Zib continue this pace once he comes back.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

So does he make adjustments or doesn't he? Can't really have it both ways.

Same goes for the system.

HF: Quinn sucks there is no system.
HF: Knoblauch is great. He is running Quinn's system better than Quinn did.

Wait a minute. I thought that Quinn had no system?

If Knoblauch was running Quinn's system there would have been 10 line changes per game. Knoblauch is playing it simple and just rolling lines.

 

[McRanger]

First 27 games 5v5:

GF/60: 2.47 -- GA/60: 2.42 -- xGF/60: 2.14 -- xGA/60: 2.06 -- SH%: 8.57 -- SV%: 91.61

Last 5 games 5v5:

GF/60: 3.17 -- GA/60: 1.73 -- xGF/60: 2.03 -- xGA/60: 2.10 -- SH%: 13.04 -- SV%: 93.58

The power play has been more potent (GF/60's 15.62 vs 5.07) but its debatable that they've actually played worse at 5v5 (even with Zibs "back") and have just been really lucky.

 

[duhmetreE]

Not really, we've played the flyers twice and scored 17 goals. Right before Quinn went into protocol, we also scored 4 goals in a losing effort against them. So in three games, all within a 10 day span, we've scored 21 goals against them.

We split two games against the Caps - winning 3-1 and losing 2-1. The other game was a 5-3 win against the lowly Sabres.

I think the bigger takeaway is that win or lose we post offense against the Flyers, and that Zibanejad and solid goaltending go a long way to giving this team a chance to win.

To that last point, it's the same thing we've talked about for two months.

If anything, while some are viewing this as theoretically making a point about Quinn, I think it actually misses the bigger takeaway about the importance of Zibanejad.

Is it fair to discredit what we did to the Flyers, as a team, then use Mika's individual success, against that same team, as a reason to why we're winning? It should be both or none, no?

We hung with Washington, who have been surging since late February, ( should have taken both games, the breakdown is something I can live and IMO is the patience we talk about, for a 'young team' ).

IMO it just further illustrates we have underachieved greatly this season. At this point, I don't think it's debatable. Why? is the question everyone has been debating. Going to timing again, is it not interesting that we stopped underachieving the day Quinn is away from the team? There's obviously not 1 single issue... but a lot of the 'issues' happened to leave with Quinn. Is it coincidence? or did it spark a new found urgency with the players? I don't think that should be easily dismissed.

 

[Raspewtin]

First 27 games 5v5:

GF/60: 2.47 -- GA/60: 2.42 -- xGF/60: 2.14 -- xGA/60: 2.06 -- SH%: 8.57 -- SV%: 91.61

Last 5 games 5v5:

GF/60: 3.17 -- GA/60: 1.73 -- xGF/60: 2.03 -- xGA/60: 2.10 -- SH%: 13.04 -- SV%: 93.58

The power play has been more potent (GF/60's 15.62 vs 5.07) but its debatable that they've actually played worse at 5v5 (even with Zibs "back") and have just been really lucky.

you should adjust for score cause then you get

first 27 games:
xGF/60 - 2.12 / xGA/60 - 2.07

last 5 games:
xGF/60 - 2.12 / xGA/60 - 1.96

 

[Larrybiv]

NHL Department of Player Safety says it's only worth $3,000 to cross check, quick-pummel, clutch hair, and slam a guy's head on the ice.

Seems like a good value for goons.

Shouldn't the player being abused RECEIVE that money? Or, does it go to retired players that have had multiple concussions and have CRS (can't remember shit) disease, that didnt get paid the money these players are getting?

 

[Peltz]

Not really, we've played the flyers twice and scored 17 goals. Right before Quinn went into protocol, we also scored 4 goals in a losing effort against them. So in three games, all within a 10 day span, we've scored 21 goals against them.

We split two games against the Caps - winning 3-1 and losing 2-1. The other game was a 5-3 win against the lowly Sabres.

I think the bigger takeaway is that win or lose we post offense against the Flyers, and that Zibanejad and solid goaltending go a long way to giving this team a chance to win.

To that last point, it's the same thing we've talked about for two months.

If anything, while some are viewing this as theoretically making a point about Quinn, I think it actually misses the bigger takeaway about the importance of Zibanejad.

I agree. Zib is a game breaking talent when he is on. The entire team has a different complexion when he’s at the top of his game.

I think a lot of people made up their mind about Quinn and ignore evidence that he’s done some good things. People look at laf’s lack of production as some sort of indictment instead of just watching the kid and seeing that he’s just not a complete player yet.

 

[Larrybiv]

The difference is the team played like shit under Quinn, and started playing well under Knob. Even that loss to Washington, Rangers were the better team. Those are the facts. What the cause is, well we'll have to see. A Knob coached game against Pittsburgh would be a great experiment.

Yeah, but that wouldnt even be fair. Seems you're trying to find TRUTH in that Quinn is a bad coach or the Rangers aren't performing FOR him, opposed to Knobman.
There might be some truth to they are playing a looser brand of hockey, but it's NOT Quinn's fault Mika coukdnt hit a beachball into the ocean, or covid losses to some of the best players, bad goaltending, etc. Could simply be "coincidental".

 

[McRanger]

you should adjust for score cause then you get

first 27 games:
xGF/60 - 2.12 / xGA/60 - 2.07

last 5 games:
xGF/60 - 2.12 / xGA/60 - 1.96

Either way that's not really making the case that there has been substantial change in production other than luck.

 

[Chytilmania]

Love all these people saying Ryan Strome has "changed", the only thing that changed is he wasnt playing with Panarin for a stretch and now you all have no "He only gets points because of panarin" argument. The guy has been good since he arrived in NY, it's no coincidence both him and Panarin had career years last year, and yes a good part of that was because of Strome.

During the pregame, Sam was talking about how he mentioned he feels like he's finally playing the hockey he's capable of and has made a few changes to get to this level. Maybe not having Tony to clown around with has helped too.

 

[True Blue]

If Knoblauch was running Quinn's system there would have been 10 line changes per game. Knoblauch is playing it simple and just rolling lines.

Of course. Am positive that he is simply doing his own thing with no direction from the actual coach of the team. Right.

Not sure if this argument of yours or the one in which you tried to claim that Mika was simply not playing for Quinn is the better one.

 

[DudMan28]

Did they ever show another angle of that "offside" when Fox was at the blueline? He had no space and suddenly was 3 feet behind the Flyers player. Would love to see the magic he pulled there.

He's so good.

 

[Kravtsov420]

I wonder how much Drury actually had to do with it. Idk but when your boss boss is watching right behind you it definitely makes you act differently