Post-Game Talk: #31| Buffalo Sabres @ New York Islanders | December 14th | 1:00 PM | F/OTW 3-2

[CupHolders]

Oh, and I know he had two points today including the tying goal but I'm pretty unimpressed every time I see Eichel. I feel like he's constantly out on the ice and just plays a very unstructured and improvisational game. He's got a wicked shot but he could be so much better if he played with more structure (could be a coaching issue). Maybe I'm alone on that one though.

I did't pay too much attention to what the Sabres were doing strategically or Eichel structurally.

But I actually came a way impressed with Eichel. He seemed to always be in the play. Had an active stick that broke up some plays. The shot already speaks for itself. But he also had couple of instances of very creative passes too.

 

[CupHolders]

Beauvillier with some man-strength is a totally different player. The previous years he would have been sneezed off the puck in the corners/boards. Now he has enough strength to hold off defenders while utilizing his quicker foot and stick work.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Beauvillier with some man-strength is a totally different player. The previous years he would have been sneezed off the puck in the corners/boards. Now he has enough strength to hold of defenders while utilizing his quicker foot and stick work.

This is exactly what I have been saying the past few years. He had absolutely not puck control and would get pushed off way too easily. The one thing that surprises me is that he has went from child to grown ass man in a matter of months.

 

[PK Cronin]

I did't pay too much attention to what the Sabres were doing strategically or Eichel structurally.

But I actually came a way impressed with Eichel. He seemed to always be in the play. Had an active stick that broke up some plays. The shot already speaks for itself. But he also had couple of instances of very creative passes too.

He's talented but on the ice for ~22 minutes a game, second most on his team. It's impossible to not notice him with that amount of time as a forward.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Can’t wait for the “Barzal isn’t going to re-sign because his teammates were mean to him” take

 

[Bones45]

dude, he's third on the team in points and has had to play up and down the lineup. You can argue the intangibles but to call him a waste of a roster spot.. you need to give it a rest. we have the 2nd best record in the league. this is our longest tenured player who has been a classy player and a team player , he stepped of for ross today, not the first time he has done that for a teammate. it was funny for awhile but wearing thin..

Ok.. I'll admit the "waste of a roster spot" was a bit much. I'll retract that from the record. Hes fine as PK or 3rd liner.

But like everyone else's rationale, you lack specifics and just hit me with "great team player" and "loyal teammate" crap.

And to all the people who post how great he is defensively along with his point totals for the past several seasons....

Hes a -43 for his career.

Watch him play people. Every shift..and try to identify an actual strength in his game.

I dare ya

 

[burana800]

Can’t wait for the “Barzal isn’t going to re-sign because his teammates were mean to him” take

Read about teammates yelling at Barzal after Buffalo scored. Did anyone saw that? Who was that?

 

[PK Cronin]

Ok.. I'll admit the "waste of a roster spot" was a bit much. I'll retract that from the record. Hes fine as PK or 3rd liner.

But like everyone else's rationale, you lack specifics and just hit me with "great team player" and "loyal teammate" crap.

And to all the people who post how great he is defensively along with his point totals for the past several seasons....

Hes a -43 for his career.

Watch him play people. Every shift..and try to identify an actual strength in his game.

I dare ya

He's -43 for his career, did you see the teams he played on early in his career? He's been -10 or less once since 2011-12, and it was the year he put up 71 points in Doug Weight's no defense system. He's been a plus player for half of his NHL career despite being on some miserable teams.

Since he broke into the league the only times the Islanders PK has been above 80% has been when Bailey has been a mainstay on the unit (top five in short handed time on ice). Weird for someone who is bad at defense.

On a shift to shift basis I notice that he's in the proper position, he's able to handle covering for a pinched defenseman easily, can get the puck through the neutral zone, has poise and doesn't panic with the puck in his own end, is a good passer, is good on the cycle, etc. He can play in all situations and all forward positions as well. In the shootout he has a 32.1% success rate, which is pretty good (better than Eberle, Barzal, Tavares, Okposo, Benn, Stamkos, Ovechkin etc.).

He's bad at throwing hits, shooting the puck in certain situations, generally overthinking sometimes, and he's not the fastest guy out there. That's about it. Third line players don't rank where he does in every category on a yearly basis.

Can you identify his weaknesses for me? Can you tell me where the other Islanders forwards fit in terms of what line you'd designate them?

 

[xIsle]

Ok.. I'll admit the "waste of a roster spot" was a bit much. I'll retract that from the record. Hes fine as PK or 3rd liner.

But like everyone else's rationale, you lack specifics and just hit me with "great team player" and "loyal teammate" crap.

And to all the people who post how great he is defensively along with his point totals for the past several seasons....

Hes a -43 for his career.

Watch him play people. Every shift..and try to identify an actual strength in his game.

I dare ya

This statistic, you must take it and leave it, don't forget (it's more a team statistic than a player statistic).

As for Bailey, he has, in my opinion, a good hockey sense. Does that mean that his execution is always perfect? Of course not, but it's more often successful than not I think.

I find, like some others, that you exaggerate with your hatred towards him. He is a good player able to get 50 points while being used in all situations.

 

[19 in a row]

Ok.. I'll admit the "waste of a roster spot" was a bit much. I'll retract that from the record. Hes fine as PK or 3rd liner.

But like everyone else's rationale, you lack specifics and just hit me with "great team player" and "loyal teammate" crap.

And to all the people who post how great he is defensively along with his point totals for the past several seasons....

Hes a -43 for his career.

Watch him play people. Every shift..and try to identify an actual strength in his game.

I dare ya

I have given you specifics for years now but they seem to be over your head bones, you just keep commenting how invisible he is or he sucks. where are your specifics? He is our best positional forward and by that I mean, he is steady and plays the system, seldom out of place, for years has allowed our D to pinch more than any other forward we have. He is excellent at zone exit passing. He is very cerebral, sometimes too much which is why he frustrates with pass first and struggles when he does not have skilled line mates. Many others, MDC just one example, were higher picks than him, so your hatred is purely irrational. No one with any hockey knowledge seems to agree with you.. He is a valued member by his teammates and coaches. If you dont' believe me then why does Trotz have him play in pressure situations, in all facets? why does he have the A on his jersey? Give it a rest, find someone else to hate. He is on your team.
Plus minus means little to me , and nothing to me in this instance given the context of his line mates and the teams he has played on. Eberle is a -50 btw for his career. don't hear you bashing him 20 times a game

Edit: I missed that PK had already responded similarly, so beating a dead horse at this point.

 

[sabremike]

He's talented but on the ice for ~22 minutes a game, second most on his team. It's impossible to not notice him with that amount of time as a forward.

If you aren't impressed by Jack chew on this:

The Sabres have scored 107 goals this season. Jack has been involved in 48 of them (so roughly 45% of the team's goals this season).

 

[LeapOnOver]

Ok.. I'll admit the "waste of a roster spot" was a bit much. I'll retract that from the record. Hes fine as PK or 3rd liner.

But like everyone else's rationale, you lack specifics and just hit me with "great team player" and "loyal teammate" crap.

And to all the people who post how great he is defensively along with his point totals for the past several seasons....

Hes a -43 for his career.

Watch him play people. Every shift..and try to identify an actual strength in his game.

I dare ya

Could you be any less disingenuous?

 

[Seph]

He's -43 for his career, did you see the teams he played on early in his career? He's been -10 or less once since 2011-12, and it was the year he put up 71 points in Doug Weight's no defense system. He's been a plus player for half of his NHL career despite being on some miserable teams.

Since he broke into the league the only times the Islanders PK has been above 80% has been when Bailey has been a mainstay on the unit (top five in short handed time on ice). Weird for someone who is bad at defense.

On a shift to shift basis I notice that he's in the proper position, he's able to handle covering for a pinched defenseman easily, can get the puck through the neutral zone, has poise and doesn't panic with the puck in his own end, is a good passer, is good on the cycle, etc. He can play in all situations and all forward positions as well. In the shootout he has a 32.1% success rate, which is pretty good (better than Eberle, Barzal, Tavares, Okposo, Benn, Stamkos, Ovechkin etc.).

He's bad at throwing hits, shooting the puck in certain situations, generally overthinking sometimes, and he's not the fastest guy out there. That's about it. Third line players don't rank where he does in every category on a yearly basis.

Can you identify his weaknesses for me? Can you tell me where the other Islanders forwards fit in terms of what line you'd designate them?

Not to mention, he racked up a lot of those negatives early in his career when he was clearly rushed to the NHL and not ready to be there. Also, he's had bad coaches for pretty much his entire career that led to the whole team having a terrible goal differential at ES. And while we're at it, we should also note the numerous problems with +/- as a stat (doesn't account for ice time, uses empty net goals, factors in negative only situations, etc). Seems like a reach to use all of that to argue against him as a player.

Under Trotz, and using 5 on 5 GF%, which measures essentially the same thing but without the same problems as +/-, he's top 90 in the league among all forwards with at least 1000 min of 5 on 5 TOI over the same time frame. He's also top 90 in 5 on 5 points over that same time period. I wonder how many teams have a guy that both produces and outscores as a leaguewide top 90 forward at 5 on 5, but that they don't consider to be one of their 6 best forwards at 5 on 5.

 

[PK Cronin]

If you aren't impressed by Jack chew on this:

The Sabres have scored 107 goals this season. Jack has been involved in 48 of them (so roughly 45% of the team's goals this season).

He's talented, as I said, but he's really not a player I'd want to be my franchise guy.

 

[PK Cronin]

Not to mention, he racked up a lot of those negatives early in his career when he was clearly rushed to the NHL and not ready to be there. Also, he's had bad coaches for pretty much his entire career that led to the whole team having a terrible goal differential at ES. And while we're at it, we should also note the numerous problems with +/- as a stat (doesn't account for ice time, uses empty net goals, factors in negative only situations, etc). Seems like a reach to use all of that to argue against him as a player.

Under Trotz, and using 5 on 5 GF%, which measures essentially the same thing but without the same problems as +/-, he's top 90 in the league among all forwards with at least 1000 min of 5 on 5 TOI over the same time frame. He's also top 90 in 5 on 5 points over that same time period. I wonder how many teams have a guy that both produces and outscores as a leaguewide top 90 forward at 5 on 5, but that they don't consider to be one of their 6 best forwards at 5 on 5.

Every statistic says he's a top six forward and one of the best wingers in the game, normal ones, advanced ones, any of them. He's just not flashy enough and doesn't seem to work hard enough for Bones to like him.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Every statistic says he's a top six forward and one of the best wingers in the game, normal ones, advanced ones, any of them. He's just not flashy enough and doesn't seem to work hard enough for Bones to like him.

I could get behind what Bones says 5 years ago, but to say it now....nah, not buying it. We've had our spats about him and his on ice plays speaks for itself. Bailey can at times be frustrating and irritating to watch, but he's always there to chip in and get the job done when it needs to get done. To me he's actually stepped up and become one of those guys that makes the right play at just the right time to win you games. Perceived effort is one thing, but his results speak for themselves and it's no longer fair to have a bias because of what your eyes see. He gets things done and I'm a fan.

 

[PK Cronin]

I could get behind what Bones says 5 years ago, but to say it now....nah, not buying it. We've had our spats about him and his on ice plays speaks for itself. Bailey can at times be frustrating and irritating to watch, but he's always there to chip in and get the job done when it needs to get done. To me he's actually stepped up and become one of those guys that makes the right play at just the right time to win you games. Perceived effort is one thing, but his results speak for themselves and it's no longer fair to have a bias because of what your eyes see. He gets things done and I'm a fan.

Welcome to the Josh Bailey Fan Club, your gear is in the mail!

 

[Skip To My Lou]

Read about teammates yelling at Barzal after Buffalo scored. Did anyone saw that? Who was that?

Where did you read that?

 

[LeapOnOver]

Where did you read that?

Barzal suspension incoming?

Post #6: somebody claims Rob Ray said it. It's possible....even likely. Nothing to worry about though.

 

[Palfmeister]

Barzal suspension incoming?

Post #6: somebody claims Rob Ray said it. It's possible....even likely. Nothing to worry about though.

Thanks for that link. It was worse than click bait, but thanks.

 

[PWJunior]

Barzal suspension incoming?

Post #6: somebody claims Rob Ray said it. It's possible....even likely. Nothing to worry about though.

Rob Ray, lol. Dude was a psycho when he played and is a Jack Edward's level homer for Buffalo. Buffalo fans are on the Josh Ho-Sang level of drama queens so forgive me if I raise my eyebrows about anything coming out of that hell hole.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Rob Ray, lol. Dude was a psycho when he played and is a Jack Edward's level homer for Buffalo. Buffalo fans are on the Josh Ho-Sang level of drama queens so forgive me if I raise my eyebrows about anything coming out of that hell hole.

Honestly, if i'm on the bench and Barzal did that I might throw a remark his way. Heat of the battle...what Ray claims to have heard isn't too far fetched. End of the day though would never get brought up again and every Islander knows that Barzal helps them win more games than he does lose them.

 

[PWJunior]

Honestly, if i'm on the bench and Barzal did that I might throw a remark his way. Heat of the battle...what Ray claims to have heard isn't too far fetched. End of the day though would never get brought up again and every Islander knows that Barzal helps them win more games than he does lose them.

Barzal f***ed up. He knows it and the whole team knows it. Trotz obviously knows it. Barzal has been physically abused all season and the refs don't call shit, he finally lost his head on a surprisingly dirty player in Dahlin. If Dahlin connected on his Paul Bunyan slash immediately after, different story.

In any case, it happened and it's been handled. Don't see it happening again.

 

[sabremike]

Rob Ray, lol. Dude was a psycho when he played and is a Jack Edward's level homer for Buffalo. Buffalo fans are on the Josh Ho-Sang level of drama queens so forgive me if I raise my eyebrows about anything coming out of that hell hole.

Ray was literally standing right between the team benches and said it on our broadcast. He confirmed what anyone in the building with two good eyes looking at the Isles bench could clearly see: they were pissed at Barzy.

 

[PK Cronin]

Ray was literally standing right between the team benches and said it on our broadcast. He confirmed what anyone in the building with two good eyes looking at the Isles bench could clearly see: they were pissed at Barzy.

I've played hockey my entire life and have never experienced a bench yelling at one of their own players in any kind of serious way. Usually one guy is enough. I really doubt it was that big of a deal, though I'm sure the players were annoyed.