Value of: 2C to the Flyers

[smoneil]

MDZ can play the right side, Streit too. Really can't see a trade with a team that needs a RD, Flyers just have Gudas and he's worth more to the Flyers than his trade value would bring.

MDZ can not play the right side to save his life. He doesn't have the skating for it. He gets spun around too often and can't recover, and he has trouble keeping the puck in the zone on the right side as well. The Rangers tried it for two consecutive seasons, and he just got worse as a result (it's a bit part of what shattered his confidence IMO during his awful season--during which he was traded).

I really like MDZ--I wanted to see Staal moved instead of him back when he was a Ranger. But trust me--he can't play the right side.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

How soon are flyers looking to contend? they could even pick up bozak as a 3c in two years in free agency. He will probs be looking for around 3-3.5 mil a year which imo is a good deal.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

How soon are flyers looking to contend? they could even pick up bozak as a 3c in two years in free agency. He will probs be looking for around 3-3.5 mil a year which imo is a good deal.

I think that depends on the development of the D prospects this year. If it goes well, next year. If not, two years.

Either way, not this year I'd say.

 

[Tripod]

How soon are flyers looking to contend? they could even pick up bozak as a 3c in two years in free agency. He will probs be looking for around 3-3.5 mil a year which imo is a good deal.

Most see this year as another "contend" for playoffs and build on the 96 points they had last year.

But we still could easily be trading away Streit and Schultz...replacing with Morin and Sanheim thru the year. So still sellers, but still competing...like last year.

But then the following year, Provy, Sanheim and Morin should sell be ready on D. Then Konecny, Lindblom and NAK on offense should be ready.

I think next summer Hextall will make 1-2 moves to push the build further, quicker and try and take advantage of Simmonds cheap deal which will have 2 years left. But at least we have lots of depth coming to keep pushing it forward.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Flyers 2C might be their biggest strength.....

 

[Maurice of Orange]

The only way the Flyers would even consider trading for a rental 2C is if Couturier ended up with some type of season ending injury in the preseason or in the World Cup of Hockey tournament.

That obviously would be very bad for the Flyers team as a whole, seeing as how Couturier is the best defensive forward the Flyers have.

No player on the Flyers roster can replace what Couturier does for the Flyers.

Other then some kinda unforeseeable injury, the Flyers wouldn't make a trade for a second line centre now, when the Flyers already have one of the best 2nd line centre's in the league.

 

[HighOFFHockey]

MDZ can not play the right side to save his life. He doesn't have the skating for it. He gets spun around too often and can't recover, and he has trouble keeping the puck in the zone on the right side as well. The Rangers tried it for two consecutive seasons, and he just got worse as a result (it's a bit part of what shattered his confidence IMO during his awful season--during which he was traded).

I really like MDZ--I wanted to see Staal moved instead of him back when he was a Ranger. But trust me--he can't play the right side.

Remember when the Rangers wanted to get rid of DZ and then Nashville let him go? Well both teams were wrong about him and now he's been the Flyers Dman for the past 2 seasons. So...maybe consider the thought that he's not necessarily the same player you remember and that your assessment of an offensive defenseman, who entered the league as an 18 year old, is only a small sample size of his potential.

 

[smoneil]

Remember when the Rangers wanted to get rid of DZ and then Nashville let him go? Well both teams were wrong about him and now he's been the Flyers Dman for the past 2 seasons. So...maybe consider the thought that he's not necessarily the same player you remember and that your assessment of an offensive defenseman, who entered the league as an 18 year old, is only a small sample size of his potential.

Yup, I do (and he was 19 years old when he entered the league). The issue with DZ then was confidence. If you look back through my posts from that time period, you'll see that I was one of only a handful of Rangers fans who didn't want him moved. Del Zotto had his confidence shot by Vigneault. AV put him on his off side, which MDZ couldn't do well (because he's not an elite skater), and then when the obvious happened, AV publicly ripped Del Zotto every chance he got (even after games in which MDZ did not play). Basically, AV made Del Zotto his scapegoat for the awful start the Rangers had that year. That's tough for a young player, and he didn't recover until the next season when he got to the Flyers.

I remember exactly how he left NY and arrived in Philly. I didn't want him traded in the first place (and was mocked for it by most of the Rangers fanbase on this site) and I'd take him back on the Rangers in a heartbeat. That doesn't change the fact that Del Zotto doesn't have the skating ability to successfully play the right side. That's not a knock on the player at all. I'm happy he regained his confidence in Philly (the kid was one of my favorite Rangers).

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

either way i think you guys should give a hard look at bozak, if not for nylander i would keep him, but a center depth or matthews-nylander- kadri is pretty good and 4th line center is a waste of bozaks talents. bozak could win you 55% draws or something, put up 40+ points, great in shootouts/breakaways. Due to being great in the dot can pk and pp and can win any timely draw. very versatile player but only on center.

 

[Magua]

either way i think you guys should give a hard look at bozak, if not for nylander i would keep him, but a center depth or matthews-nylander- kadri is pretty good and 4th line center is a waste of bozaks talents. bozak could win you 55% draws or something, put up 40+ points, great in shootouts/breakaways. Due to being great in the dot can pk and pp and can win any timely draw. very versatile player but only on center.

You've mentioned Flyers should get Bozak like 5 times. He doesn't PK routinely of late and in the seasons he has, he's been the worst shot suppression forward every time. Except for one anomalous season, he scores at a rate of ~1.5-1.6 points/60 minutes. That's respectable, but given his somewhat cushy minutes with top players, it's not good either, and used as 3C with lower quality linemates (hello, Dale Weise) his numbers will just go down. The Flyers could get that scoring elsewhere for cheaper. He won't sniff the top PP like he got to play in Toronto. He might not even play on the PP2. That's great that he's solid at the dot, but given that he is not particularly good defensively and shouldn't PK, the usefulness of that diminishes.

So, we might be looking at 25 points in 3rd line duty with limited special teams for a player with 2 years at $4.2 mil per. The fact that he is deployed in scoring roles and not as a shutdown player doesn't help matters. Bozak is not bad, but for $850k the Flyers can and should just roll with Nick Cousins. They'll probably get similar results.

 

[flyersfan018]

Bozak is an easy pass. Not sure why he's being pushed so much. Flyers aren't contenders this year and have absolutely no reason to want him.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

You've mentioned Flyers should get Bozak like 5 times. He doesn't PK routinely of late and in the seasons he has, he's been the worst shot suppression forward every time. Except for one anomalous season, he scores at a rate of ~1.5-1.6 points/60 minutes. That's respectable, but given his somewhat cushy minutes with top players, it's not good either, and used as 3C with lower quality linemates (hello, Dale Weise) his numbers will just go down. The Flyers could get that scoring elsewhere for cheaper. He won't sniff the top PP like he got to play in Toronto. He might not even play on the PP2. That's great that he's solid at the dot, but given that he is not particularly good defensively and shouldn't PK, the usefulness of that diminishes.

So, we might be looking at 25 points in 3rd line duty with limited special teams for a player with 2 years at $4.2 mil per. The fact that he is deployed in scoring roles and not as a shutdown player doesn't help matters. Bozak is not bad, but for $850k the Flyers can and should just roll with Nick Cousins. They'll probably get similar results.

his usefulness comes when hes takes the draw and actually WINS it cause sean is bad at them, and then changes off...and funny how i mentioned it 5 times guess you didnt read my post even once cause i mentioned that philly could pick him up as a ufa not explicitly through a trade lmfao. And nick cousins seriously..... dude has what like 50 games in the nhl.

 

[Magua]

his usefulness comes when hes takes the draw and actually WINS it cause sean is bad at them, and then changes off...and funny how i mentioned it 5 times guess you didnt read my post even once cause i mentioned that philly could pick him up as a ufa not explicitly through a trade lmfao. And nick cousins seriously..... dude has what like 50 games in the nhl.

Couturier is average at faceoffs. And a possession beast, unlike Bozak. What does that tell you, using your powers of inductive reasoning? And Nick Cousins is no sure thing with his small track record. But everyday, 1000 times a day on this forum prospects with less or no games are already anointed, so it seems fair to say that in those games this year, used as a 3rd line center, Cousins scored at a comparable rate with much better possession stats, and then to hopefully project something like that going forward. That's the hope with any young player. Time will tell.

I also do look forward to the Flyers signing a UFA with 2 years still under contract to solve a problem 2 years in the past. A 33 year old Bozak in 2 more years when we will have even less of a non-existent need for him. The anticipation is killing me

 

[Tripod]

I have said before that if Hextall felt Cousins wasn't going to cut it, adding Bozak would not be the worst move. I have also said that trading Read would need to happen for cap reasons. It's a re-shuffling of cap hit from wing to C.

Bozak's FO ability is something I really like. It gives Philly:

Giroux 57.47%
Gordon 57.87%
Bozak 56.37%

....as all +50% on the dot. That is a BIG upgrade over last year.

Plus, with Bozak having 2 years on his deal, he bridges the gap until Rubstov is hopefully ready after finishing his contract in Russia.

Would I expect him to be a 50 point C? No. But he could add offense to the 3rd line with Weise and Laughton along with great FO abilities. Yes his wingers are not as good as in TO, but he also would be getting weaker matchups than Giroux and Couts will be. So maybe he can take advantage of matchups against 3rd/4th lines and bottom pairings.

 

[mrinsane]

DD for a jackstrap.

 

[Gsus]

Year or two forward, and this thread will look ugly.

Coots will be just fine as a 2C (9:13):

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Flyers are just fine with Giroux, Couturier, Cousins and Gordon as the centres this season.

 

[Tripod]

Flyers are just fine with Giroux, Couturier, Cousins and Gordon as the centres this season.

Only if Cousins takes the next step in development.

Having a #3 C getting 25 points(his pace last year) AND getting sheltered minutes, is not good. Having a #3 C that can get 30-40 points OR be elite defensively is what we need. Right now, Cousins is neither.

 

[johna2626]

Patrick Marleau maybe. I think he's sticking with the Sharks but he asked for a trade before last season and may still want out.

- Can play left wing and center
- Still got speed to burn
- Great defensively and on the PK
- Still has some offensive pop
- Coming off his worst season in nearly a decade. That means he'll come cheap, but has rebound potential. His terrible season still saw him put up nearly 50 points in a defensive role though.
- Some of the best eyebrows in the game
- Is done as being a good NHL player

Fixed

 

[bigwillie]

Fixed

48 points in a shutdown role. He's obviously not in his prime anymore, but if you consider a guy who faces top comp, kills penalties, and still puts up over .5 PPG "done as a good NHL player" than I don't know what to tell you.

 

[LondonKendrick]

The 2C Kadri marks pretend him to be is actually Couturier. Fylers are fine at C.

 

[Tripod]

48 points in a shutdown role. He's obviously not in his prime anymore, but if you consider a guy who faces top comp, kills penalties, and still puts up over .5 PPG "done as a good NHL player" than I don't know what to tell you.

Yeah Marleau is still good and would be a great #3 C.....but at 6.67 million, not an option for Philly.

 

[Rich Nixon]

While I agree that Couturier is better than his offensive numbers, "pace" is meaningless, and the more you beat that drum the more skeptical people get.

 

[PaulGG]

Comparing the Flyers to the top East teams the Flyers give up more goals and don't score as many. Since Couturier's forte is defense why not at least consider making him the 3rd line shutdown center and bring in a 2C with offense in mind?

 

[Tripod]

Comparing the Flyers to the top East teams the Flyers give up more goals and don't score as many. Since Couturier's forte is defense why not at least consider making him the 3rd line shutdown center and bring in a 2C with offense in mind?

Many reasons.

Couts has offensive upside that has been supressed. Why not let HIM bring offense and defense?
Couts IS good at ES for points.
A #2 scoring C is more expensive to acquire than a #3 defensive C.
A#2 scoring C is more expensive in cap hit than a #3 defensive C.
Couts is going to get the #2 C minutes regardless because he is that important to the team. Why not give him top 6 wingers and get the offense from him too.
With Couts on the ice, we score more goals than we give up.

Whoever they add, or if they add no one and it's Cousins or Raffl as the #3C, they will only get #3 minutes.

We have a #2 C. His name is Couturier.