Post-Game Talk: #25- 03/11/21 | RANGERS @ boston | 7:00 - ESPN+ MSG2

[JHS]

well that’s still not talent being the issue but in fairness this isn’t really a good argument

Mika and Strome have played their absolute best hockey as Rangers.

kreider Buchnevich Chytil are home grown

lafreniere and kakko are first and second overall home grown picks

panarin is a super star who pushed to come here and played his best season as a Ranger

lemieux and Howden came over in big trades they weren’t given away

Gauthier is really the only one you could say supports your argument maybe was given up on but keane at the time was having a great year in the ahl as a valued right shot dman

and kravtsov a very talented 9th overall pick we’re all terrified of coming back here to play under Quinn

so what does that tell you

I agree- I was just pointing out the talent aspect as sort of a counter weight to the idea that this team is loaded with talent. I'd say the more accurate phrase is, this team is loaded with potential( which is also not being maximized)

 

[SML2]

But onion rings!

Miller is what happens when a player matures. He was not that player here. You can't assume he would have become that player here. It could have been going to the Lightning and seeing that group operate that flipped the switch for him. He left here a middle six F, he wasn't that special, and he kind of had a shitty attitude. You can't overthink it in hindsight.

 

[LOFIN]

the difference is the goaltending has taken turn for the worst
I said it last year and people on here said that was the worst post they ever read

our goaltending is terrible and shesterkin is not an elite goalie, he constantly gets hurt and even when healthy all I see is an average goalie, nothing that makes him elite
I don't know why people on this board think Shesterkin is some kind of Hasek type goalie. he is average at best

then the next problem is Quinn
and then the soft culture of this team no snarl or grit, alot of cream puff soft players

Georgiev has been very bad, and I expect him to be #3 in the pecking order once Shestyorkin gets back. Shestyorkin is a very good goalie, and very likely to become elite.

But out of the many problems this team has, goaltending is not #1 on the list. We are #23 in GF, #26 in PP%. With as much pure offensive talent as we have, this is just unacceptable.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

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Oh man this is incredible.

 

[NYSPORTS]

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you have a gift. Looks so real

 

[TGWL]

This is becoming unwatchable.

 

[Profet]

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I love the inference that Joe is rushing through his comment as seen by the bubble being too small for his comment and text needing to be condensed.

It's a real work of art. A lens into the broadcast.

 

[duhmetreE]

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Pure gold.

 

[OverTheCap]

The funny thing is, I've heard the lack of leadership/heart criticism thrown out there against almost every iteration of this team that HAD those 3 guys on it. It's a bull shit criticism used by people who have no idea how to express their frustration any other way.

The FO deserves some blame for sure, but not because of the lack of "leadership." They should get heat for putting together this homogenous roster and allowing Quinn to hang around.

The leadership wasn't ideal when those 3 were on the team, but it's even worse now. Losing a well-respected, long-tenured player like Lundqvist is absolutely going to have some sort of impact on the locker room, and it was mentioned earlier this season that both Igor and Georgiev were having trouble now that he's no longer here as a safety net.

Clearly there are plenty of issues other than leadership. I have been critical of both Quinn and Gorton, and I have complained about how one-dimensional the team is since AV was our coach. Insinuating that I don't know how to express my frustration any other way is quite disingenuous.

 

[jay from jersey]

I’m starting to think it’s the cultural here that’s the main culprit. Seems like we pamper our players and don’t push them out of their comfort zone consistently. There is a certain entitlement and easy goingness with this team that I don’t really see with other teams (especially perennial contenders)

Having this much youth isn’t bad in itself, but the Rangers made no effort to balance that out with some type of proven veteran leadership . Instead they have a guy like Howden who probably still lives with his mom taking up space on the roster.

I do think there are guys here that are inherently hungry and possess some sort of drive but the atmosphere here doesn’t seem to be conductive to nurturing that.

It’s starts with the coaching staff bro. When torts was here you weren’t allowed to walk on the rangers Symbol on the dressing room floor. You don’t show any disrespect to it. That’s the type of thing I’m talking about. Have some fuc••ng team pride. The head coach has to set the tone. Then all the players buy in. The older players should set the example, but the coach is the main motivation

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

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This is the best thing to happen this season so far.

 

[ArPanet]

He took Lafreniere off the Mika line after what, 8 minutes? Suggestive of a behind the scenes issue?

 

[duhmetreE]

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We need these along with the pin cushions VOODOO. Every game.

 

[duhmetreE]

He took Lafreniere off the Mika line after what, 8 minutes? Suggestive of a behind the scenes issue?

He did it so he could match up KZB against their top line..

 

[TheBloodyNine]

He took Lafreniere off the Mika line after what, 8 minutes? Suggestive of a behind the scenes issue?

Suggestive of bad coaching.

 

[haveandare]

We had that will last year. We lost it since Covid Cup.

What's the differences? Ruff left and JD came on board. How do we go from a fun, relentless exciting team, to this?

My guess is an increased focus on team defense has made that a top priority in players minds, which is actually kind of working to improve the d but everything comes at the expense of something else, in this case it’s offense.

Beyond that, I think it’s a bit of luck that is snowballing into confidence issues. Mika starts sick and out of it, Chytil misses a ton of time, Kakko is in and out, Panarin is gone for weeks, the defense is a revolving door of injuries for a while. It’s a lot for a young team trying to find their way even in smooth circumstances. And on top of that a lack of ability to adjust the gameplan on the fly midseason by the coach. And a continuation of as easy going “well get em next time” attitude.

First thing to try is a new, more experienced coach imo. I appreciate not keeping this coach recycling thing going and I don’t think Quinn was a terrible hire for a time, but something fundamentally has to change here and the coach is by far the easiest and maybe most important single change. The thing is I don’t see this organization just firing their guy and throwing in an interim or something, they’ll want a new “their guy” to replace him and I don’t really think that guy is available right now

 

[ArPanet]

He did it so he could match up KZB against their top line..

weren’t we going pretty well to start?

 

[duhmetreE]

weren’t we going pretty well to start?

I dont try to reason with why David Quinn does what he does anymore...

Demoralization has taken full effect. It seems to have spread to the team as well.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He took Lafreniere off the Mika line after what, 8 minutes? Suggestive of a behind the scenes issue?

No his rationale as to why he did that was actually valid.

Now why he put Laf on the 4th line? Yeah I don't know where he was going with that.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

He took Lafreniere off the Mika line after what, 8 minutes? Suggestive of a behind the scenes issue?

Yeah, behind the scenes issue being that this coach is a moron with no plan.

 

[duhmetreE]

My guess is an increased focus on team defense has made that a top priority in players minds, which is actually kind of working to improve the d but everything comes at the expense of something else, in this case it’s offense.

Beyond that, I think it’s a bit of luck that is snowballing into confidence issues. Mika starts sick and out of it, Chytil misses a ton of time, Kakko is in and out, Panarin is gone for weeks, the defense is a revolving door of injuries for a while. It’s a lot for a young team trying to find their way even in smooth circumstances. And on top of that a lack of ability to adjust the gameplan on the fly midseason by the coach. And a continuation of as easy going “well get em next time” attitude.

First thing to try is a new, more experienced coach imo. I appreciate not keeping this coach recycling thing going and I don’t think Quinn was a terrible hire for a time, but something fundamentally has to change here and the coach is by far the easiest and maybe most important single change. The thing is I don’t see this organization just firing their guy and throwing in an interim or something, they’ll want a new “their guy” to replace him and I don’t really think that guy is available right now

Which leads to... Why is Ruff and now Martin, dictating how the team plays? We can't argue with Martin's results overall but there has to be a better system in place to transition to offense. We don't know how to consistently get the puck from our end to the other, without dumping/banging and chipping. There's no system in play for the team in the neutral and offensive zone. No one knows their roles and it ends up looking chaotic and sloppy. We only look halfway decent when we transition off of neutral zone turnovers

Eventually when things start going as bad as they have been... morale dips, effort dips, urgency dips..

IMO we cant really evaluate the team until a new fresh mind is brought in.

 

[Lion Hound]

Very deflating to see a team down big to a rival. It's made worse when the club doesn't show any spark to ignite them. It's like saying, "OK we accept that we suck and they are better".

I can't throw all the blame on Quinn. Im not that bandwagon yet. I think players need to be more accountable. Quinn had a lot of success and a tremendous rep for developing young players. That was at a different level. He's failed pretty bad so far in the NHL. Is he the type of guy that will learn from his mistakes, and adjust his coaching? Or, the type of guy that is too proud to admit mistakes made and continue to do the same thing? I guess time will tell. There is evidence of some glaring mistakes. Some alarming misuse of players. Players seem to love the guy and that is telling. Management also seems to think he is the right guy. He's is starting to skate on thin ice in the deep end of the lake. It's up to him to get them back under control. I believe in the guy still, but he has dug himself in pretty deep.

I do think leadership on ice is a problem. Leaders step up in these games with big play, big goals, big hits, and cannonball run types of shifts. The extra effort type of shifts we used to see from an Adam Graves. From Mess. From a Sergei Nemchinov if you will. We saw a nice flurry the other night when the pulled the goalie. But that type of effort in losses is very inconsistent.

I do think leadership in the room is a problem. When a true leader is there players aren't going to fight each other. They would know their teammate is not the enemy. I mean this shit is Leadership 101. Without leadership, you get dissention in the ranks. Rangers tried the new option. Lead by Committee. They have been doing this since 2018 when they traded McDonagh.


Coach and Captain need to go Hand in Hand. They need to be on the same page. Create the identity. Develop a strategy. Get the leaders to buy in. Leaders get the players to buy in.

I would love to see a Craig Berube here some day, developing a young leader like a Peyton Krebs.

 

[CasusBelli]

90% of our roster’s talent is Panarin and Fox.

The Habs don’t have an elite player like Panarin, but compare their 4 F lines and 3 D pairs to ours. The Rangers have a good top-six, an awful bottom-6, one good pairing and two awful pairings.

Half our roster is bad. I don’t understand how people can think it’s talented, (aside from it being harder to swallow than everything being Quinn’s fault.)

Do you honestly not remember what our 2013-15 rosters looked like? Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello; Hagelin-Hayes-Miller; those used to be our 3rd lines FFS.

Even “good top six” is generous. We have an elite LW, a decent 1C, a 2RW (maybe 3RW on a contender) playing 1RW, a decent 2C (arguably 3C on a contender) and a 3RW playing 2RW. This is middle of the pack and consistent with our position in the standings. The defense is atrocious. Fox his clearly a 1RD; Trouba is an overpaid 2RD (3RD on a contender); Lindgren is at best a 2LD on a competitive team; the rest of the guys are not NHL caliber defensemen — at least not yet or not anymore.

But I fully agree with the spirit of your post. Fans tend to overrate their own assets.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The leadership wasn't ideal when those 3 were on the team, but it's even worse now. Losing a well-respected, long-tenured player like Lundqvist is absolutely going to have some sort of impact on the locker room, and it was mentioned earlier this season that both Igor and Georgiev were having trouble now that he's no longer here as a safety net.

Clearly there are plenty of issues other than leadership. I have been critical of both Quinn and Gorton, and I have complained about how one-dimensional the team is since AV was our coach. Insinuating that I don't know how to express my frustration any other way is quite disingenuous.

Leadership helped bring us to the finals, without St.louis and Richards added to McDonagh we never get there. I don't think Kreider Zib or Trouba are that guy. I don't know who the guy is we could aquire but we need a vet who has done it before, someone with a personality that can lift us up and hold everyone accountable. A guy like Toews without his contract would be good.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

This group is better than this, center depth aside we have a good team when healthy. I think Gerard Gallant could make things better here and i really want Oliver gone, with the talent here there should be no reason our pp is this bad and if Zib can't shoot properly then rejig the pp to have him in another role and let Lafreniere or Kakko shoot the one timer from the side wall. Personally id have zib as the bumper.