24/25 Waivers/Rumors/TDL Thread.

[Scottgaf1]

Absolutely not. We have no use for an extra first rounder right now. If we are trading wallinder it needs to be for someone who can play on our roster this year.

I disagree. This trade would help in many ways. First It frees up 2.25 mil next year. Second you open up roster sports for guys who are ready.

Now they have ammo for the offseason. Tons of cap space, two first rounders to trade or pair together to move up in the draft, and roster space to go for top end guys.

You sacrifice almost nothing this season to get it.

 

[Ulysses31]

with the cap jump sign ed to 8.7x8 this off season

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

Wallinder looks really bad in GR these days. He has quickly become our most overrated prospect. You can tell from the prospect rankings that people aren't really watching him. Gustafsson, for all of his flaws, is a much better defensemen now and next year.

How is he overrated? He’s ranked like 13th amongst our fanbase on here

Absolutely not. We have no use for an extra first rounder right now. If we are trading wallinder it needs to be for someone who can play on our roster this year.

That first can be used to trade for a roster player…plus the extra cap space

 

[cjm502]

How is he overrated? He’s ranked like 13th amongst our fanbase on here


That first can be used to trade for a roster player…plus the extra cap space

He is overrated by those that think he has any kind of NHL future. Even if he gets a cup of coffee in the NHL, he probably wont be able to play to his strengths in the role he would be in. The vast majority of fringe NHL defensemen that actually stick around are the very defensive types.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

He is overrated by those that think he has any kind of NHL future. Even if he gets a cup of coffee in the NHL, he probably wont be able to play to his strengths in the role he would be in. The vast majority of fringe NHL defensemen that actually stick around are the very defensive types.

But it seems like the fanbase acknowledges that his NHL future is grim. So how is he overrated?

 

[Henkka]

with the cap jump sign ed to 8.7x8 this off season

Don't think we need to do that. Ed will be very cost-controlled for years, because he won't see the PP much. Seider and Pellikka will man the future slots. When there's no high point-production, he will be cost-controlled but very effective like Kronwall behind Lidström.

I don't think we go with 8 years, and if we go, it will be lot less than Seider got. Like taking the cap rise on count, still.

 

[Henkka]

How is he overrated? He’s ranked like 13th amongst our fanbase on here


That first can be used to trade for a roster player…plus the extra cap space

Also funny how Rzombo for prez ranked him as 13th best prospect and the current rank average is also 13th.

So where does the overrating come from?

I did rate Wallinder a lot higher, but the board consensus did not.

I'm currently OK trading Wallinder as a piece for RHD option, because Johansson totally surprised me. And Albert is currently one option for the left side, if we can add legit RHD guys.

 

[Ulysses31]

Don't think we need to do that. Ed will be very cost-controlled for years, because he won't see the PP much. Seider and Pellikka will man the future slots. When there's no high point-production, he will be cost-controlled but very effective like Kronwall behind Lidström.

I don't think we go with 8 years, and if we go, it will be lot less than Seider got. Like taking the cap rise on count, still.

ah ya could see that, bridge for a few years at 6mil then sign big deal last or second last year of RFA

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Don't think we need to do that. Ed will be very cost-controlled for years, because he won't see the PP much. Seider and Pellikka will man the future slots. When there's no high point-production, he will be cost-controlled but very effective like Kronwall behind Lidström.

I don't think we go with 8 years, and if we go, it will be lot less than Seider got. Like taking the cap rise on count, still.

Not giving a guy an opportunity to do something he's probably capable of is business.

Depriving him of millions of dollars because you haven't given him that opportunity is how you drive a guy out of the organization.

 

[Winger98]

Don't think we need to do that. Ed will be very cost-controlled for years, because he won't see the PP much. Seider and Pellikka will man the future slots. When there's no high point-production, he will be cost-controlled but very effective like Kronwall behind Lidström.

I don't think we go with 8 years, and if we go, it will be lot less than Seider got. Like taking the cap rise on count, still.

I'd lock Ed in for as long as we can. But I'd also lock Albert in for as long as we can. I'm not a fan of the idea of signing him to some sort of bridge deal to test the waters, unless Albert falls apart after the 4 nations thing. But I'm also fine leaving him next to Ed and letting ASP play third pairing.

 

[Winger98]

Not giving a guy an opportunity to do something he's probably capable of is business.

Depriving him of millions of dollars because you haven't given him that opportunity is how you drive a guy out of the organization.

This is a hard argument. Personally, I think you should be able to evaluate how important a guy is to your club and pay him appropriately. And that might not always align with how many points they provide. For instance, Tyson Barrie. Guy had seasons where he put up a ton of points but he was a sieve defensively. I think Kevin Shattenkirk fits this, too. A bit higher end than Barrie, but still not a guy you build around, imo.

But how do you quantify this when going into contract negotiations. Maybe you can get some advanced stats to back you up, but no one really trusts them - and I think that lack of trust goes deeper when millions of dollars are on the line. The one counterweight I can think of is that the guys in the locker room know. And that's where you get the buy in talk of a GM getting players to fall in line with it. And I think that's easier to do with guys who come up through the organization and works against you a bit chasing free agents.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

Not giving a guy an opportunity to do something he's probably capable of is business.

Depriving him of millions of dollars because you haven't given him that opportunity is how you drive a guy out of the organization.

SY himself prefers the medium length contracts, but he has been frank in that he deals with what the player wants to do, so if Ed wants a 7/8 year contract, they will arrive at one at the the comp value.

SY may want a longer term one with Ed with a new CBA pending, if it looks like the UFA age is lowered.

 

[The Zermanator]

I'd lock Ed in for as long as we can. But I'd also lock Albert in for as long as we can. I'm not a fan of the idea of signing him to some sort of bridge deal to test the waters, unless Albert falls apart after the 4 nations thing. But I'm also fine leaving him next to Ed and letting ASP play third pairing.

I'd be in favour of this with Johansson too. And I think we're in a prime position to get him locked up on a really good value deal. This is a guy who's NHL future was still a question mark 2 months ago so he might be willing to sign something that gives him security for several years with a lower AAV. I'm thinking something like 2M-3M AAV for 5-6 years.

Assuming he keeps up his play, which I have every confidence, that will be one more great value long term contract to add to the pile. And getting great value out of contracts is a recipe for success in a cap world. Good AAVs on Larkin, Seider, Raymond, and hopefully soon for Johansson and Edvinsson will offer so much cap flexibility in the coming years along with the huge rise in cap ceiling that's on the way. That way when the Wings are in their contention window in a few years and a Rantanen-type FA comes up that could be the last piece of the puzzle, they'll be in a position to back up the money truck.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

How is he overrated? He’s ranked like 13th amongst our fanbase on here


That first can be used to trade for a roster player…plus the extra cap space

Our prospect ranking is relative. The tallest midget still gets ranked at the top. I don't think he is as good as some are suggesting. I sense people are expecting something akin to Aljo, which is not going to happen. He doesn't process the game nearly that well (and I was an Aljo bear).

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

SY himself prefers the medium length contracts, but he has been frank in that he deals with what the player wants to do, so if Ed wants a 7/8 year contract, they will arrive at one at the the comp value.

SY may want a longer term one with Ed with a new CBA pending, if it looks like the UFA age is lowered.

Yzerman prefers medium length contracts for non-core players.

Ed is a core player.

 

[SirloinUB]

with the cap jump sign ed to 8.7x8 this off season

Larkin wasn't extended early, Raymond wasn't extended early, Seider was extended early. Shit, Even Patrick Kane wasn't extended until the eve of Free Agency.

I would be very surprised if Ed is signed this summer.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

As president of the William Wallinder fan club he better be moved for a lot better than what most people are doing here. If you want to package him with other things for a tangible upgrade, but to get rid of someone I think people are picking the wrong dude. I like Buium for those throwing things in that camp, but Wallinder has the NHL skating that we question with Buium. I think you're looking at another off-season and deciding which one fits. Now with that said if Wallinder is part of a package for Byram, Cozens, etc that I cannot really argue with even if I am a massive believer in him being a big smooth skating guy that eventually figures it out as a solid 4-6 guy.

I will say some of my most hopeful projections on him are blocked by better players so he will never see PP time. He still of all the internal options to me presents the best fit for that #4 role with the big boys, if people want to put Aljo there than Wallinder will carry the third pair, but I think it comes down to those two splitting 4/5 roles. So if you go get Byram I am more comfortable not really caring because that locks the top 4 a different way. But that presents different things money wise and distribution throughout the lineup. With the cap going up, I can see this even if the example in Byram is someone who has health issues that worry me a bunch.

Yes he is big and yes he can skate, but at some point you need to know how to play the game and put your tools to productive use. If he was really good at moving the puck, I could live with his defensive game and effort. I just don't think he is really good at any one thing other than being big and mobile. I certainly wouldn't throw him away, but I am not seeing the upside at this point that you are. With his size and mobility he should have been able to develop a higher-end defensive game, but he hasn't.

 

[Frk It]

I still have hope for Wallinder, but he is starting to get into Sproul territory for me.

I need to see the tools translate into an on-ice product in a more meaningful way.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

Don't think we need to do that. Ed will be very cost-controlled for years, because he won't see the PP much. Seider and Pellikka will man the future slots. When there's no high point-production, he will be cost-controlled but very effective like Kronwall behind Lidström.

I don't think we go with 8 years, and if we go, it will be lot less than Seider got. Like taking the cap rise on count, still.

Where is ASP playing on the PP, iyo?

 

[Henkka]

at some point you need to know how to play the game and put your tools to productive use. If he was really good at moving the puck, I could live with his defensive game and effort.

He was already at Rögle at 2022-23 season.

Somehow something is missing like with Söderblom for 1,5 seasons.

Development seems not to be linear anyhow, so waiting game is proably the only answer.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Edvinsson has more ES points than any defenseman, has by far the best plus/minus on the team, is having a huge positive influence on AlJo, is obviously an important part of the core group going forward. His lack of PP time isn't a conspiracy to keep his salary down, it's because the PP is great without him and doesn't need to be messed with. If he signs long-term for anything significantly less than Seider did, in a Cap environment that is going to explode, his agent isn't doing his job.

 

[19 for president]

Edvinsson has more ES points than any defenseman, has by far the best plus/minus on the team, is having a huge positive influence on AlJo, is obviously an important part of the core group going forward. His lack of PP time isn't a conspiracy to keep his salary down, it's because the PP is great without him and doesn't need to be messed with. If he signs long-term for anything significantly less than Seider did, in a Cap environment that is going to explode, his agent isn't doing his job.

I don't know if I entirely agree on the PP part. I definitely think he'd be an upgrade on Gus on PP2. I don't think he is supplanting anyone on PP1 but he should be on PP2 in my opinion. One could maybe argue minute usage but its not like PP2 really racks up the minutes. I don't think Stevie would ever significantly handcuff his team, but will he play some cap management games absolutely. Like our PP was probably a bit better with Ghost on PP one last year than having Seider, but I also think there was a game plan to bringing in a PPQB in the year Seiders contract was going to expire after.

With that said I could see Yzerman pushing to sign him long term this season for something just south of Seider versus his team saying nah we'll wait with the cap going up. With Ray, Larkin, and Seider we were in rush to sign them. We had no big deals on the books, the cap was largely static, and we didn't need to gamble. With Ed we are starting to potentially stick our toe into that playoff contention window (at least by summer 26), we already have 3 larger contracts on the books, and now the Cap is set to explode. I could see Stevie breaking from his typical mold and pushing for an extension this summer.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

I don't know if I entirely agree on the PP part. I definitely think he'd be an upgrade on Gus on PP2. I don't think he is supplanting anyone on PP1 but he should be on PP2 in my opinion. One could maybe argue minute usage but its not like PP2 really racks up the minutes. I don't think Stevie would ever significantly handcuff his team, but will he play some cap management games absolutely. Like our PP was probably a bit better with Ghost on PP one last year than having Seider, but I also think there was a game plan to bringing in a PPQB in the year Seiders contract was going to expire after.

With that said I could see Yzerman pushing to sign him long term this season for something just south of Seider versus his team saying nah we'll wait with the cap going up. With Ray, Larkin, and Seider we were in rush to sign them. We had no big deals on the books, the cap was largely static, and we didn't need to gamble. With Ed we are starting to potentially stick our toe into that playoff contention window (at least by summer 26), we already have 3 larger contracts on the books, and now the Cap is set to explode. I could see Stevie breaking from his typical mold and pushing for an extension this summer.

Don't disagree that Ed would be an upgrade on Gus, but I don't think there has been an order from up top for the coach to not give him an opportunity. It's just a natural tendency for coaches to focus on what's not working rather than tinker with what is working. SY isn't going to handcuff what his coach wants to do. Cap management is always a game of some sort, with Ed I think it might have played a part in keeping him in GR as long as he did. That decision was his alone and he might have thought it would contribute to getting Ed on a short-term bridge deal before having to be locked up. The projected Cap growth the next three years and probably beyond that changes the equation. It would be smart to lock him up now IMO.

 

[lilidk]

Probably Lalonde did a lot of damage to organization. Most of newcomers got struggled at first. Chiarot , Cat , Copp. They are playing much better lately. Don't know what happened to Vrana and Walman. Holl has not confidence at all , I doubt he was so bad in Toronto . I believe Tarasenko is finally becoming himself and will start scoring again.

 

[sepster]

I don't know if I entirely agree on the PP part. I definitely think he'd be an upgrade on Gus on PP2. I don't think he is supplanting anyone on PP1 but he should be on PP2 in my opinion. One could maybe argue minute usage but its not like PP2 really racks up the minutes. I don't think Stevie would ever significantly handcuff his team, but will he play some cap management games absolutely. Like our PP was probably a bit better with Ghost on PP one last year than having Seider, but I also think there was a game plan to bringing in a PPQB in the year Seiders contract was going to expire after.

With that said I could see Yzerman pushing to sign him long term this season for something just south of Seider versus his team saying nah we'll wait with the cap going up. With Ray, Larkin, and Seider we were in rush to sign them. We had no big deals on the books, the cap was largely static, and we didn't need to gamble. With Ed we are starting to potentially stick our toe into that playoff contention window (at least by summer 26), we already have 3 larger contracts on the books, and now the Cap is set to explode. I could see Stevie breaking from his typical mold and pushing for an extension this summer.

Roster management plays a big part in the usage, as well.

NHL reality dictates that a team needs to play 6 Dmen a game. No team anywhere makes the choice to play less than 6 Dmen in favor of getting an extra forward into a game.

Seider, Edvinsson, and Johansson can't play the entire game, every game. Gustafsson, for example, is on the roster and the coaching staff needs to find a use for him. You don't want to use him on the PK. And you probably don't want to increase his ES minutes. So, even if Edvinsson is either potentially or currently more effective than him on the PP, Edvinsson is more capable than Gustafsson in other areas, so you use him there and play Gustafsson on the PP to get some increased usage out of him.