Salary Cap: 24 25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume Mmxxvii Retool over Time to Go for A Cup in 2026

Part luck part development.

Yeah in hindsight it sucks that you got 2OA and 1OA b2b and instead of it being Fantilli/Carlsson/Michkov and Celebrini to choose from it was Lafreniere and Kakko.

But Rangers didn’t need to play Laf or Kakko in the NHL right away. Could have played them in different roles, etc. Laf looked like a star in the playoffs but can’t be consistent. Kakko much better once he got away.
 
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“I would argue against it,” he said. “The players I put on the ice are the guys I think are going to give us the best chance to win. That’s it. I don’t care how old they are. Look back at our two Stanley Cup teams. There were five guys we called up from Wilkes-Barre on those teams, and nobody knew who they were. Conor Sheary played with Sidney Crosby and nobody knew who Conor Sheary was. Don’t tell me I’m not willing to put out young guys in prominent roles. I’m absolutely willing to put them in prominent roles. But they have to be effective and they’ve got to be ready.

“At the end of the day, depending on where we’re at as an organization and depending on who is available to us, we are putting the best 20 guys on the ice to help us win. I don’t care how many years professional they have under their belts. I don’t care what their age is. Age has absolutely nothing to do with it. What it has to do with is your ability to have a positive impact in terms of helping the Penguins win hockey games.”

jennifer-lawrence-ok.gif
 
I think our fanbase has a warped view of how premium asset collection should go though. I think the general fan has been conditioned to believe that - oh, you're bad, you get a high draft pick, you get another Crosby, then we are good again! To suggest we've been spoiled over the years (Lemieux then Jagr; MAF, Sid, Geno, Staal) is the understatement of the year. It's been quite awhile (20 or 40 years depending on how you want to look at it) since we've had to put the work in to be bad enough to get those high quality players.

Everyone wants those cornerstone/franchise pieces but no one wants the pain and wait associated of getting them. I mean, 2001 to 2006 and dare I say into 2007, this team was shit. There was light at the end of the tunnel after 04/05 when we got Sid and we had Malkin (but whose situation was unknown). But after Jagr left until that point, there was a lot of pain in following the Penguins.

Also, I think the idea of "luck" is very much underplayed. You have to be bad at the right time and now with the lottery, get the right pick. Sometimes your 3x 1sts are MAF, Ovi, Sid and other times is Hall, RNH, and Yakupov. If you're not bad at the right time and get lucky, you turn into the Buffalo Sabres.

That's not an unfair statement for Sully. I would suggest that there are several factors at play that probably go untalked about. The "roster with the best chance to win" is absolutely true. We can argue which roster that "should" be, but I tend to believe that Sullivan believes it's the best chance to win (no matter how much I may disagree with it). So that's one factor. The next is, in doing so, he is maintaining that "winning culture," which I believe Sullivan believes the organization has. He's promoting the idea that "no matter what, we are trying to win every single game." Maintaining that culture is probably a high priority for everyone in the organization, whether or not it's "mandated" by FSG. It took a long time to build it so they aren't going to dump it at the first sight of struggle. Next, "they have to be ready" is fair, and I think that reiterates the sentiment of "winning culture" even further. The argument there is quickly turning into "well, you're NOT winning so you may as well use this time to start developing guys even if it doesn't put you in the "best" position to win each night because that is what is ultimately "best" for the players and organization moving forward.

We are at that super awkward organizational moment where we are trying to balance several priorities and the org doesn't want to state which one is the top priority. It's the cop out of "well, they are ALL top priorities" but in practice, they can't be. That's why the gears seem to be grinding a bit here.

And like everything in life, there is no growth without pain/setbacks.
So if you're not willing to suffer any setbacks, then that player won't grow.

And people wonder why our development of youngsters sucks cock
 
I think our fanbase has a warped view of how premium asset collection should go though. I think the general fan has been conditioned to believe that - oh, you're bad, you get a high draft pick, you get another Crosby, then we are good again! To suggest we've been spoiled over the years (Lemieux then Jagr; MAF, Sid, Geno, Staal) is the understatement of the year. It's been quite awhile (20 or 40 years depending on how you want to look at it) since we've had to put the work in to be bad enough to get those high quality players.

Everyone wants those cornerstone/franchise pieces but no one wants the pain and wait associated of getting them. I mean, 2001 to 2006 and dare I say into 2007, this team was shit. There was light at the end of the tunnel after 04/05 when we got Sid and we had Malkin (but whose situation was unknown). But after Jagr left until that point, there was a lot of pain in following the Penguins.

Also, I think the idea of "luck" is very much underplayed. You have to be bad at the right time and now with the lottery, get the right pick. Sometimes your 3x 1sts are MAF, Ovi, Sid and other times is Hall, RNH, and Yakupov. If you're not bad at the right time and get lucky, you turn into the Buffalo Sabres.

That's not an unfair statement for Sully. I would suggest that there are several factors at play that probably go untalked about. The "roster with the best chance to win" is absolutely true. We can argue which roster that "should" be, but I tend to believe that Sullivan believes it's the best chance to win (no matter how much I may disagree with it). So that's one factor. The next is, in doing so, he is maintaining that "winning culture," which I believe Sullivan believes the organization has. He's promoting the idea that "no matter what, we are trying to win every single game." Maintaining that culture is probably a high priority for everyone in the organization, whether or not it's "mandated" by FSG. It took a long time to build it so they aren't going to dump it at the first sight of struggle. Next, "they have to be ready" is fair, and I think that reiterates the sentiment of "winning culture" even further. The argument there is quickly turning into "well, you're NOT winning so you may as well use this time to start developing guys even if it doesn't put you in the "best" position to win each night because that is what is ultimately "best" for the players and organization moving forward.

We are at that super awkward organizational moment where we are trying to balance several priorities and the org doesn't want to state which one is the top priority. It's the cop out of "well, they are ALL top priorities" but in practice, they can't be. That's why the gears seem to be grinding a bit here.
Aren't you the one constantly hyping up drafting Misa/Mckenna?
 
Aren't you the one constantly hyping up drafting Misa/Mckenna?
Yes. I don't see how anything I said challenges that. The best combination of events that meets all objectives is to lose the majority of the games this year, draft Misa and then in the off-season - unload Rakell and Karlsson while bringing up some WBS kids. Finish bottom 3, win the lottery, and draft McKenna.

From there, you build the new roster around McKenna and Misa and you hope and pray that with the collection of young players we have + Sid, it gets you a playoff round.
 
Yup- the PR is more important than improving the team.
God I hate this franchise and the Steelers right now. Both run by f***ing clowns who don't know what the f*** they're doing.
They know EXACTLY what they're doing. Put the pirates in there too.

Just enough to stay midpack-ish. Sells tickets with a few "stars" and hope that maybe this year they can rattle some cages. That's all they care about.

Bottoming out fully will endanger season tickets (pirates just need to spend more money, steelers are fine as-is, pens really only ones who need to crater for three years).
 
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Bunch of you need a Xanax or a special brownie or something.

Rakell and Karlsson are under contract. Of course the Pens PR team is going to push them in a Sweden announcement. The NHL wants them to do that. Both of them played on Team Sweden in the 4 Nations.

There is a ton of player movement around the league in the summer. Everyone and their grandmother knows that players currently on the roster may not be there by the time these games roll around.

If the Pens trade Karlsson this summer, no one is going to remember that he was included in a press release announcing two games against Nashville in Sweden. The only conversation will be around whether it was a good trade or not. Same with Rakell.

If we get through the summer and it comes out that Dubas turned down legitimate offers for Karlsson and/or Rakell and refused to act, that's worth being upset about. But at this point, people are just looking for things to complain about.
 
He’s responding to everyone that’s questioning Sullivan’s BS on twitter too lol. I don’t know why he goes to bat so hard for him.
My assumption is because the org gives him access in return. The second he goes “yes, but what about this decade…” he’s cut off.

“Sullivan would be picked up within minutes of being released…” Good. We don’t have to pay him then.
 
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Bunch of you need a Xanax or a special brownie or something.

Rakell and Karlsson are under contract. Of course the Pens PR team is going to push them in a Sweden announcement. The NHL wants them to do that. Both of them played on Team Sweden in the 4 Nations.

There is a ton of player movement around the league in the summer. Everyone and their grandmother knows that players currently on the roster may not be there by the time these games roll around.

If the Pens trade Karlsson this summer, no one is going to remember that he was included in a press release announcing two games against Nashville in Sweden. The only conversation will be around whether it was a good trade or not. Same with Rakell.

If we get through the summer and it comes out that Dubas turned down legitimate offers for Karlsson and/or Rakell and refused to act, that's worth being upset about. But at this point, people are just looking for things to complain about.
You mean the social media intern that busted out the graphic wasn't present during top secret internal roster discussion and strategy sessions? Wild.
 
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You mean the social media intern that busted out the graphic wasn't present during top secret internal roster discussion and strategy sessions? Wild.
For the record, they have a full comms team. Social media interns aren't doing that stuff for pro franchises anymore. Maybe some smaller colleges, minor league teams, etc.

That said, the PR/comms team isn't sitting in with hockey ops on roster discussions. And even if Dubas - or any President of Hockey Ops/GM - was micromanaging things, does anyone think he'd tip his hand and tell the PR team to not include the two prominent Swedes in any marketing material for this event?

There are a lot of stupid GMs, but none are that dumb.
 
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Bunch of you need a Xanax or a special brownie or something.

Rakell and Karlsson are under contract. Of course the Pens PR team is going to push them in a Sweden announcement. The NHL wants them to do that. Both of them played on Team Sweden in the 4 Nations.

There is a ton of player movement around the league in the summer. Everyone and their grandmother knows that players currently on the roster may not be there by the time these games roll around.

If the Pens trade Karlsson this summer, no one is going to remember that he was included in a press release announcing two games against Nashville in Sweden. The only conversation will be around whether it was a good trade or not. Same with Rakell.

If we get through the summer and it comes out that Dubas turned down legitimate offers for Karlsson and/or Rakell and refused to act, that's worth being upset about. But at this point, people are just looking for things to complain about.

Yeah, the team that won't fire Mike Sullivan and won't commit to a full rebuild or being competitive is actually going to completely change their mind about moving a guy they could've just got actual value.

Keep sticking your head in the sand, brother.
 
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For the record, they have a full comms team. Social media interns aren't doing that stuff for pro franchises anymore. Maybe some smaller colleges, minor league teams, etc.

That said, the PR/comms team isn't sitting in with hockey ops on roster discussions. And even if Dubas - or any President of Hockey Ops/GM - was micromanaging things, does anyone think he'd tip his hand and tell the PR team to not include the two prominent Swedes in any marketing material for this event?

There are a lot of stupid GMs, but none are that dumb.

Erik Karlsson has the GM handicuffed. Dubas has no control over the EK65 situation. If EK wants to play in these games, there is only one other team Dubas can trade him to with EK's signature.

We already know what the GM has said about Rakell. You can say it is a Jeff Petry situation, but I'd disagree.
 
Erik Karlsson has the GM handicuffed. Dubas has no control over the EK65 situation. If EK wants to play in these games, there is only one other team Dubas can trade him to with EK's signature.

We already know what the GM has said about Rakell. You can say it is a Jeff Petry situation, but I'd disagree.
Karlsson is still searching for his first Cup. If Dubas comes to him with a trade to a contender, do you really think that Karlsson will be so petty as to refuse to remove his NMC, just to play two November games in Sweden?

This is what I'm talking about.

Karlsson's NMC is a factor. So is his contract. But you're inferring some sort of pettiness or maliciousness into whether he'll agree to waive his NMC, just because you want this entire operation to blow up in Dubas' face.
 
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Karlsson is still searching for his first Cup. If Dubas comes to him with a trade to a contender, do you really think that Karlsson will be so petty as to refuse to remove his NMC, just to play two November games in Sweden?

This is what I'm talking about.

Karlsson's NMC is a factor. So is his contract. But you're inferring some sort of pettiness or maliciousness into whether he'll agree to waive his NMC, just because you want this entire operation to blow up in Dubas' face.

No idea, I'm not Erik Karlsson. We have no idea.

The reality is EK65 controls his future. Kyle Dubas does not.

EK has also made it clear he is 100% fine playing in Pittsburgh, so I don't think he's just going to uproot his life for a third time especially with the proximity of PIT to OTT for any team.
 
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