Salary Cap: 24 25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume Mmxxvii Retool over Time to Go for A Cup in 2026

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, it's less about keeping Rakell being a decision we'll *definitely* look back on in disgust and more about the fact that this team still needs a ton of work, whether they're gonna retool (lol) or rebuild. Every little bit helps. More lotto tickets the better.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, if McGroaty is the best we can build around for the near future, we are truly f***ed, without lube.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I mean, if McGroaty is the best we can build around for the near future, we are truly f***ed, without lube.

Well ya, the rebuil/retool whatever you want to call it kind of started last year and we didn't have a 1st round pick cause of the EK trade, so...

When you consider everything though, we could have been in even worse shape. Pickering, Brunicke, Pieniniemi, Howe, Koivunen, Ponomarev, Broz, hayes and Murashov are all having some great seasons. I could see McGroarty and Koivunen play top 6 minutes in the near future to be honest

 

[HandshakeLine]

When you consider everything though, we could have been even worse. Pickering, Brunicke, Pieniniemi, Howe, Koivunen, Ponomarev, Broz, hayes and Murashov are all having some great seasons. I could see McGroarty and Koivunen play top 6 minutes in the near future to be honest

Kris Beech played minutes in the top 6. That didn't make him a piece to build around.

Again, while some of these players have had great seasons in juniors and the minors, I do not see much evidence as of yet that they can make the transition. I'm hopeful they will, but even if they all do, let's be honest, we're looking at a bunch of top 9 complimentary guys with some 3/4 blueliners at the moment, barring some explosive (and frankly rather uncommon) development.

Like we're not as badly off as we were, sure. But we're also at the point the Gen X Pens were with that lineup. The difference between that 2002-2003 squad and the first Crosby year is immense, largely because we had a legit franchise player there.

Now it's possible to do a rebuild without a franchise player, but in that case, we need to be even more ruthless about trades and building our pool and acquiring assets.

 

[HandshakeLine]

And for clarity: I'm not saying you need a Crosby to build around, but having a young franchise player on the roster is really the only way this quick turn-around model works. So, us not having one as of yet makes me very skeptical this is more than just empty words.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Thinking about this talk of the farm team reminds me of guys like Alexandre Giroux who were beasts in the AHL and complete and utterly useless at the NHL game. I mean, Giroux put up, like what, 100+ points in 69 GP in the AHL for Hershey and his longest stint in the NHL was 12 games?

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

And for clarity: I'm not saying you need a Crosby to build around, but having a young franchise player on the roster is really the only way this quick turn-around model works. So, us not having one as of yet makes me very skeptical this is more than just empty words.

I'm not disagreeing at all, but it's kind of hard when you have been trading every 1st round pick pretty much in the last 20 years or so. It's normal, you want to win, but it's the price you pay now

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

McGroarty and Koivunen are not pieces to build around, and one of them will probably flame out in all honesty.

Because they’re not franchise elevating talent you do gotta try to develop them so I get why you keep some established players on the roster.

Back to Raks- I understand if you think Rakell goes potato but just don’t see it. He looks incredible this year- even if the shooting % comes down he will score ~30 and and be solid all over the ice. Also someone has to score on a bad team lmao. I said all this before the TDL so it’s not cope I swear

Would be a massive fail if he was a UFA and they kept him to give him a new deal but I wouldn’t be in a hurry unless someone met my price.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I’m not saying I don’t think they should move him- they should at some point the next 2 years

But if no one was willing to go 2 1sts +… does seem like the typical late first and some B prospect was all that was out there.

A lot of times that ends up being nothing so I get holding on to him to see if he could get more as cap goes up… with the risk being you get a 2nd and prospect vs a 1st and a prospect. It’s something I understand.

 

[Andy99]

I’m not saying I don’t think they should move him- they should at some point the next 2 years

But if no one was willing to go 2 1sts +… does seem like the typical late first and some B prospect was all that was out there.

A lot of times that ends up being nothing so I get holding on to him to see if he could get more as cap goes up… with the risk being you get a 2nd and prospect vs a 1st and a prospect. It’s something I understand.

Apparently the price was two firsts, a top prospect and young roster player…lol…come on, that’s saying we don’t want to trade this guy…Rakell’s value is not as good as Rantanen’s…not as good a player…a first and a top prospect OR young roster player is actually what his value is…if he gets better than that, great…but that’s a good return

 

[Empoleon8771]

This may purely be a semantics thing, but I think it's too soon to say whether McGroarty and Koivunen are or aren't guys you can build around. Koivunen is 21 and has 20 goals and 53 points in 58 games this year as a rookie, which is a better rookie season than numerous 1st rounders have had in the past few years. Just as an an example, but Koivunen's rookie year is comparable to Peterka's AHL rookie year from 2021-2022 with 28 goals and 68 points in 70 games. If Koivunen ends up a Peterka caliber player in the NHL, that's absolutely a core player IMO.

McGroarty is in a similar situation, his production has really exploded after a slow start (12 points in 25 games in 2024, 26 points in 31 games in 2025) and is still only 20. Both guys could reasonably become 50-60 point top-6 wingers, which are more on the Kunitz/Neal type of core pieces but they're still core pieces.

Now if you mean "they won't become Crosby or Malkin caliber guys", then yeah I think that is fairly obvious. But I'm not seeing anything that prohibits them (plus Brunicke, for that matter) from developing into contending caliber core pieces. They just won't be the focal points of those core, they'll be the Kunitz/Neal/Orpik part of the core. They just need to pull off probably the 1 Malkin and 2 Letangs and Guentzels to complete that core with their next few high 1sts.

This is a huge if, but if you can get those Malkins, Letangs and Guentzels with those upcoming 1sts, I feel like a core of Malkin, Letang, Guentzel, Kunitz, Neal and Orpik is a contender caliber core. If you win the lottery this year, Schaefer immediately becomes that new Letang, but you probably need another lottery win or to strike gold on a pick to get the Malkin and Guentzel.

 

[IcedCapp]

who cares anymore. life is meaningless. they're going to go on a ridiculous run, tweet about "THE MARCH OF THE PENGUINS, HURRR DURRRR," Jarry is going to get them into the 8th seed, then as soon as they get there, his sphincter is gonna assplode again, and we're going to finish the season in 9th. Lose our primo draft position, and probably get the 16th from the Rangers, as well, just to make the kick to the nuts as painful as possible.

 

[Lust for Life]

And yet none of this matters as long as Sullivan is the coach, so

 

[Empoleon8771]

Regarding Rakell, I think the bigger argument to have here is less about Rakell and more about whether this team is trying to rush a rebuild for Crosby's sake rather than actually doing a proper rebuild and taking their time.

 

[Andy99]

Regarding Rakell, I think the bigger argument to have here is less about Rakell and more about whether this team is trying to rush a rebuild for Crosby's sake rather than actually doing a proper rebuild and taking their time.

I mean, the way to rush the rebuild is to lose lol…and Dubas is not doing that by allowing Sullivan to play Jarry…we’re not getting McKenna-quality players in a trade and unlikely we land a young center someone is giving up on early like the Caps did with Strome…we need a franchise center at least, preferably two in the next few drafts, another top 2 D and hope our young goalies pan out…our quickest hope to retool into a contender is 3 years imo and that’s with getting two top 3 draft picks…since we appear to punting on that in this draft, our earliest chance to compete again will be 2027-28…best case

 

[eXile3]

Regarding Rakell, I think the bigger argument to have here is less about Rakell and more about whether this team is trying to rush a rebuild for Crosby's sake rather than actually doing a proper rebuild and taking their time.

Yeah Rakell is not getting traded in the offseason. Dubas has made it pretty clear he’s part of the quick turnaround plan. I don’t know why people are thinking otherwise.

 

[eXile3]

I mean, if McGroaty is the best we can build around for the near future, we are truly f***ed, without lube.

I’m a huge supporter of Groats but I don’t think he’s a guy you “build around.” He’s the guy that compliments the guys you build around.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m a huge supporter of Groats but I don’t think he’s a guy you “build around.” He’s the guy that compliments the guys you build around.

Yeah he, Brunicke and Koivunen are like the Kunitz, Orpik and Neal guys that you surround the big name guys. I still consider those guys "core" pieces but not "franchise" pieces.

They need to pull off basically 3 legit franchise pieces in the next couple of drafts for this team to have a contending caliber team after Crosby retires. I'm concerned they're going to rush it and not have the pieces for after Crosby, just so Crosby can be on a playoff team in his last year or two.

 

[Darren McCord]

Everyone so desperate to trade everyone and get top 5 picks. I just want them to build a good system of drafting and developing. I don't want them to just get draft picks and hope for the best that one will pop off without any development.

Look at a team like Dallas. Dallas has 1 top 10 pick in the last 10 years but has done a great job at drafting and developing players. They look set for a long time.

I know getting top 5 picks fast tracks them but without getting a good system in place Sully will just tank that pick and this team will end up looking like the Blackhawks.

Heck look at the Oilers. They have a comparable Crosby and Malkin duo and are in season 10 without a cup and only one finals appearance with those guys being relatively healthy the whole time.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Apparently the price was two firsts, a top prospect and young roster player…lol…come on, that’s saying we don’t want to trade this guy…Rakell’s value is not as good as Rantanen’s…not as good a player…a first and a top prospect OR young roster player is actually what his value is…if he gets better than that, great…but that’s a good return

Just like when he was a Duck until he was UFA. You are talking UFA prices in a flat cap, and stop comparing him to a 28 Rantanen who is well over a PPG, and his value wasn't all that great either until they allowed him to negotiate with a team he was willing to go to, and even then, that return is not all that great to a contending now team. They went from Necas to Rantanen to Stankoven. They have to wait 3/4 to 5/6 years for any of the draft capital to make a roster impact.

Also, it's the Canes own falt for overpaying for a UFA who had no intentions on signing there.


Rakell is signed for 3 more at a cap 5.0 friendly deal. Mikko got a 8/12.0 that takes him to 36/37.

I also don't think they were looking for any 1sts in the trade. All NHL ready players/prospects.

Trying to downplay Rakell to push your agenda speaks loudly how bad the idea is, the two players were in different positions. Rakell wasn't a UFA.

Selling low just to do something is completely asinine.

 

[eXile3]

Everyone so desperate to trade everyone and get top 5 picks. I just want them to build a good system of drafting and developing. I don't want them to just get draft picks and hope for the best that one will pop off without any development.

Look at a team like Dallas. Dallas has 1 top 10 pick in the last 10 years but has done a great job at drafting and developing players. They look set for a long time.

I know getting top 5 picks fast tracks them but without getting a good system in place Sully will just tank that pick and this team will end up looking like the Blackhawks.

Heck look at the Oilers. They have a comparable Crosby and Malkin duo and are in season 10 without a cup and only one finals appearance with those guys being relatively healthy the whole time.

Winnipeg also has had success without top 5 picks, but…neither team has won it all using that method. I did the research a while ago and only one Cup winner since the NHL lockout didn’t have a top 5 draft pick, in their top 5 of scoring in the playoffs.

 

[Darren McCord]

Winnipeg also has had success without top 5 picks, but…neither team has won it all using that method. I did the research a while ago and only one Cup winner since the NHL lockout didn’t have a top 5 draft pick, in their top 5 of scoring in the playoffs.

Not saying its easy and they don't need one. But it's more important to have a functional development system first. I really think Shero was the last GM to actually have that. JR burned everything to the ground and Hextall just was good chilling out and hoping someone else would do it.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I’m a huge supporter of Groats but I don’t think he’s a guy you “build around.” He’s the guy that compliments the guys you build around.

Groats in all honesty could very well be a 3rd liner/2nd line tweener. I think people are overvaluing the state of our prospects. I don't think any of our prospects can be the top driver both at forward and defense.

I don't think any project to a 1st liner.

 

[HandshakeLine]

This may purely be a semantics thing, but I think it's too soon to say whether McGroarty and Koivunen are or aren't guys you can build around. Koivunen is 21 and has 20 goals and 53 points in 58 games this year as a rookie, which is a better rookie season than numerous 1st rounders have had in the past few years. Just as an an example, but Koivunen's rookie year is comparable to Peterka's AHL rookie year from 2021-2022 with 28 goals and 68 points in 70 games. If Koivunen ends up a Peterka caliber player in the NHL, that's absolutely a core player IMO.

McGroarty is in a similar situation, his production has really exploded after a slow start (12 points in 25 games in 2024, 26 points in 31 games in 2025) and is still only 20. Both guys could reasonably become 50-60 point top-6 wingers, which are more on the Kunitz/Neal type of core pieces but they're still core pieces.

Now if you mean "they won't become Crosby or Malkin caliber guys", then yeah I think that is fairly obvious. But I'm not seeing anything that prohibits them (plus Brunicke, for that matter) from developing into contending caliber core pieces. They just won't be the focal points of those core, they'll be the Kunitz/Neal/Orpik part of the core. They just need to pull off probably the 1 Malkin and 2 Letangs and Guentzels to complete that core with their next few high 1sts.

This is a huge if, but if you can get those Malkins, Letangs and Guentzels with those upcoming 1sts, I feel like a core of Malkin, Letang, Guentzel, Kunitz, Neal and Orpik is a contender caliber core. If you win the lottery this year, Schaefer immediately becomes that new Letang, but you probably need another lottery win or to strike gold on a pick to get the Malkin and Guentzel.

I think no matter how much they tear up the AHL, the NHL is just such a different caliber of game and at a higher speed, so I don't put nearly as much stock in AHL performance predicting NHL results for skaters as I would for goalies. There's just been so many cases of guys with great AHL numbers not doing much of anything in the NHL that I find it hard to put a whole lot of stock in them.

Of course, the amount of guys outside of role players who have no results in the AHL who make a successful transition to the NHL is even smaller.

Edit: And you kind of need to find a guy or two a tier above the Neals and Kunitzes of the world, that's the other part of my point. I don't care how you get it, but you need to get that player to structure a team around in order to have success. Otherwise, we're stuck back in that Toronto hell of kinda-but-not-really competing.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm not disagreeing at all, but it's kind of hard when you have been trading every 1st round pick pretty much in the last 20 years or so. It's normal, you want to win, but it's the price you pay now

For sure, which is why I think the quick-turn/pivot approach is the wrong one. We don't have anything in the tank, so we shouldn't be talking about a quick turn around or a retool. We should be talking about a full rebuild.