Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXVI: Sid is Still Goat

[SomeDude]

This team is such liquid shits at this point that it genuinely makes me not want to sign anyone like Marner or Chychrun. This team needs an absolute reset and to nuke literally everything.

What a coincidence, players of that caliber don’t want to sign here either.

 

[Gurglesons]

Rakell will produce more in the next 3 years than any 25th overall is likely to in their entire career. And he is on a great contract and plays a style that helps his linemates. Thats why I wouldn’t move him for to the first team that offers a late 1st and whatever. He has more value than that and we’ve got a good year to make sure we get the value. I’ve got no problem moving Rak for his value, but throwing guys away is how JR f***ed the team. There’s no way his value is worse than what you would take a year from now. Why rush?

Rakell is an injury risk. You get out of his contract and sign a player like Marchand on a one or two year deal or someone similar in UFA to flip again.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I’d fire the coach. But, apparently that isn’t possible.

God: "If you fire Sullivan, I'll instantly cure anyone of cancer."

Penguins ownership: "I mean, does cancer really kill that many people? How about we fire the assistant coach and you give us a sunny day this weekend instead?"

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Rakell will produce more in the next 3 years than any 25th overall is likely to in their entire career. And he is on a great contract and plays a style that helps his linemates. Thats why I wouldn’t move him for to the first team that offers a late 1st and whatever. He has more value than that and we’ve got a good year to make sure we get the value. I’ve got no problem moving Rak for his value, but throwing guys away is how JR f***ed the team. There’s no way his value is worse than what you would take a year from now. Why rush?

I don't agree on the JR thing. JR f***ed this team by paying 1st liner prices for 3rd liners that he fell in love with and simply *had* to have, and chasing outright dogshit players like Jack Johnson and Ryan Reaves. That's how JR f***ed this team, not by throwing guys away. Dude got insanely lucky over like an 18 month span with all of his deals working perfectly and it brain-poisoned him into thinking every move he'd make would be golden, so he just started slinging valuable assets around without a single thought about how it'd affect the team in the future.

I will never understand or agree with this weird fascination around hanging on to a dude like Rakell. It's dumb, shortsighted thinking (not you, just the overall thought that you have to hang on to him unless an overpayment falls into your lap). Dude's a solid player on a terrible team that can and should be used, as soon as possible, to bring in more draft capital or young players. If that means getting a 1st and using it to draft a guy, go for it. If that means getting a 1st and then trading that, a more universally sought after asset, in order to get a young guy for the future like Clarke from LA (to use a recent discussion topic), then do that. Seems pretty straight forward for a team in the Pens' position. Rakell does nothing for this team. His points here don't matter, and honestly, are probably detrimental.

You don't know if he's gonna get injured or drop into a lull in production again like last year or whatever. Strike while the iron's hot, and right now, I don't think it's gonna get any hotter. I don't think it's about rushing, it's about moving a guy who is likely one of the more valuable players available at the TDL in a year he's probably not going to reproduce moving forward.

I think a lot of the trepidation and hesitation regarding moving guys like Rakell and EK and Rust is that people simply cannot reconcile within themselves that the era's finally over. But it is, and has been for years. The team needs to start acting like it to try and mitigate the post-Sid misery as best they can. It's gonna be bad either way, but continuing to bury their head in the sand and passing up free lotto tickets just to keep a guy who does nothing for this team like Rakell is gonna make it worse. /shrug

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah if you can get a 1st for Rakell and out of his contract you do it immediately because his value likely craters from here.

 

[cygnus47]

I don't agree on the JR thing. JR f***ed this team by paying 1st liner prices for 3rd liners that he fell in love with and simply *had* to have, and chasing outright dogshit players like Jack Johnson and Ryan Reaves. That's how JR f***ed this team, not by throwing guys away. Dude got insanely lucky over like an 18 month span with all of his deals working perfectly and it brain-poisoned him into thinking every move he'd make would be golden, so he just started slinging valuable assets around without a single thought about how it'd affect the team in the future.

I will never understand or agree with this weird fascination around hanging on to a dude like Rakell. It's dumb, shortsighted thinking (not you, just the overall thought that you have to hang on to him unless an overpayment falls into your lap). Dude's a solid player on a terrible team that can and should be used, as soon as possible, to bring in more draft capital or young players. If that means getting a 1st and using it to draft a guy, go for it. If that means getting a 1st and then trading that, a more universally sought after asset, in order to get a young guy for the future like Clarke from LA (to use a recent discussion topic), then do that. Seems pretty straight forward for a team in the Pens' position. Rakell does nothing for this team. His points here don't matter, and honestly, are probably detrimental.

You don't know if he's gonna get injured or drop into a lull in production again like last year or whatever. Strike while the iron's hot, and right now, I don't think it's gonna get any hotter. I don't think it's about rushing, it's about moving a guy who is likely one of the more valuable players available at the TDL in a year he's probably not going to reproduce moving forward.

I think a lot of the trepidation and hesitation regarding moving guys like Rakell and EK and Rust is that people simply cannot reconcile within themselves that the era's finally over. But it is, and has been for years. The team needs to start acting like it to try and mitigate the post-Sid misery as best they can. It's gonna be bad either way, but continuing to bury their head in the sand and passing up free lotto tickets just to keep a guy who does nothing for this team like Rakell is gonna make it worse. /shrug

Nope. None of that. Just value. I don’t care about rakell, I care about getting reasonable value for assets. If a good trade comes along 100% we should take it. Being scared of injuries applies to every single player at all times, having an itchy trade finger is how you end up making mistakes. It’s like oh we have a 1st in a year but we could really use a 2nd this year, better make the trade since the era is over anyway. It’s dumb and it’s how JR made trades, pissing away assets because he wanted the trade done yesterday.

Unless rakell gets a career ender, he’ll be worth a 1st next year too. If you don’t get what he’s worth, it’s just bad asset management. This era was over in 2019 when we kept Sully, doesn’t mean we should’ve just dumped everyone for whatever we could get.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You also trade Rakell because he has no use here anymore. You don't need top-six caliber players next year, unless your objective is to ruin your chances at McKenna.
There's just the two they're locked into. The rest go.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Nope. None of that. Just value. I don’t care about rakell, I care about getting reasonable value for assets. If a good trade comes along 100% we should take it. Being scared of injuries applies to every single player at all times, having an itchy trade finger is how you end up making mistakes. It’s like oh we have a 1st in a year but we could really use a 2nd this year, better make the trade since the era is over anyway. It’s dumb and it’s how JR made trades, pissing away assets because he wanted the trade done yesterday.

Unless rakell gets a career ender, he’ll be worth a 1st next year too. If you don’t get what he’s worth, it’s just bad asset management. This era was over in 2019 when we kept Sully, doesn’t mean we should’ve just dumped everyone for whatever we could get.

I mean, if you're only concerned with asset management and value, why wouldn't you move the 32 year old having a career year before the TDL during what's pretty unanimously considered a seller's market?

You risk injury, you risk play/production drop off, next year's draft is notably deeper and better regarded so teams are probably less likely to part with 1st rounders.

You move the guy now, or during the summer. That's that. Hanging on to him is donkeybrains shit. But, this organization loves to do the dumbest thing, so I expect you'll get your way.

 

[Pancakes]

Fine with moving Rakell if they can get a first or equivalent asset for him but if they can't why bother tbh

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Dubas did quite well on the Petts deal - probably better than any of us expected considering the early return on "lotto ticket" Fernstrom.

I think he'll move out one of Raks or Karlsson for a good return before the start of next season when the cap goes up and GMs have more play money, but he won't overplay his hand on either of them. He can't take the "everyone must go" approach publicly if he wants anything of value.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

One of the only reasons to keep Rakell is to help Sid (or Geno but I guess screw him right???) score points.

But both of those things can be remedied by stacking the top line.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

One of the only reasons to keep Rakell is to help Sid (or Geno but I guess screw him right???) score points.

But both of those things can be remedied by stacking the top line.

Or to wait for a good return. With the way he's been playing and the cap going up, Dubas should rightfully ask for a 1st and a good prospect or equivalent. That might take until the offseason.

I proposed Rakell for Edmonton's 1st and Arvidsson, who I could see flourishing with Sid in that 1LW spot and potentially net us a good return next deadline without having to play Malkin on the wing. When we do move up McG or Koivunen (or Martone!) next year, it'd be nice if our center options for them weren't f***ing Glass and Hayes.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Rakell is an injury risk. You get out of his contract and sign a player like Marchand on a one or two year deal or someone similar in UFA to flip again.

I'm not sure about signing Marchand and if he would be willing to come here ( yes I know he is Sid's buddy), but I completely agree with moving Rakell and aiming for as many quality UFA's to 1 or 2 year deals in order to flipp!

 

[Sideline]

I'm not sure about signing Marchand and if he would be willing to come here ( yes I know he is Sid's buddy), but I completely agree with moving Rakell and aiming for as many quality UFA's to 1 or 2 year deals in order to flipp!

I think the way you attract a Marchand is by offering him 8MM or 10MM on a 1 year deal and then you can do a double retain trade at the deadline to turn him into draft picks.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I think the way you attract a Marchand is by offering him 8MM or 10MM on a 1 year deal and then you can do a double retain trade at the deadline to turn him into draft picks.

Likewise Chychrun and the like.

 

[SomeDude]

I am looking forward to July 2 when our big signings are Craig Smith, Matt Nieto, and John Merrell instead of Marner, Marchand, and Chychrun.

 

[Sideline]

Likewise Chychrun and the like.

I think Chychrun is young enough and good enough that someone will offer money and term. The Penguins sweet spot should be guys coming off bad injuries or near the end of their careers that weren't going to be able to get term elsewhere.

 

[JRS91]

We aren't signing anyone and shouldn't sign anyone.

The rebuild should've happened 4 years ago like when the Capitals started. Constantly trading 1st round picks catches up to you. They're going to miss the playoffs for a third straight year, but at least they'll probably have a top 10 pick.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Keep it up, tank commander Sully. Onward and upward!

 

[Khelandros]

Personally, I agree that this summer is too early to pivot. While a full teardown does not offer guaranteed success, I think it's much tougher to thread the needle and pivot quickly. It's doable, but difficult.

I think a quick pivot can be successful ONLY IF Dubas gets very, very aggressive. This summer is one of those opportunities with players like Marner and Rantanen potentially available. If those big ticket players end up signing, then that window closes. But if they make it to July 1, I think it's at least a plausible path.

But, again, Dubas would have to be aggressive and potentially do some things he wouldn't normally do (like retention).

Here's a theoretical route forward that would be an aggressive pivot. The proposed deals are largely placeholders discussed on HFB and that weren't hated, or are just random projections for the hell of it because they only include picks.

DEADLINE DEALS

• Matt Grzelcyk & Noel Acciari to Florida for a 4th round pick
• Anthony Beauvillier to Ottawa for a 5th round pick
• Erik Karlsson ($3 million retained) to Dallas for a 2026 1st round pick, D Lian Bischel, and D Matt Dumba
• Rickard Rakell to LA Kings for a 2026 1st round pick, F Francesco Pinelli, and F Trevor Moore
• Danton Heinen to Columbus for a 6th round pick

DRAFT DEAL

• Either Dallas' or LAK's 2026 1st round pick to Colorado for Casey Mittelstadt

FREE AGENCY

• Sign Mitch Marner to 7-year, $14.5 million per year deal
• Sign Jakob Chychrun to 7 year, $6.5 million per year deal
• Sign Jonathan Kovacevic to a 3-year, $2.5 million per year deal
• Allow Glass and POJ to go to free agency after non-tendering them as RFAs
• Re-sign RFAs Tomasino, Hallander, and Ponomarev, among other AHL guys
• Buy out Ryan Graves
• Demote Jarry to the AHL again

PROJECTED LINEUP
Ignore the projected cap space. That's a PuckPediaGM error.

You have five forwards under 24 on the roster in McGroarty, Koivunen, Ponomarev, Poulin, and Tomasino, with Broz, Hallander, Pinelli, and Hayes in WBS, plus potential draft picks.

You have two defensemen 21 and under in Pickering and Bichsel, both of whom have already played NHL games.

The only players over 30 are Crosby, Malkin, Rust, Letang, Dumba, and Hayes.

You still have flexibility to continue adding young assets thanks to the number of picks you have AND the eventual expiration of the contracts for Bunting, Dumba, Deshairnais, Lizotte, and Hayes.

This would be a huge step forward with the potential to do more the following year.

That said, it's a hell of a lot of moving parts and it is all dependent on guys like Marner and Chychrun being available in free agency.


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You're not getting Chychrun for $6.5MM. Someone will offer him $10MM.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

We aren't signing anyone and shouldn't sign anyone.

The rebuild should've happened 4 years ago like when the Capitals started. Constantly trading 1st round picks catches up to you. They're going to miss the playoffs for a third straight year, but at least they'll probably have a top 10 pick.

You bet your ass we will! I don't think top 3 is happening, but 4th is ripe for the taking.
Standings-wise I mean. They can still win the lottery I guess.

 

[The Old Master]

If Dubas trades Karlsson, that is a firable offense. You don't trade a player of his caliber when his value is this low.

as long as sully is here, do you think his value is going to increase?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I am looking forward to July 2 when our big signings are Craig Smith, Matt Nieto, and John Merrell instead of Marner, Marchand, and Chychrun.

Even if you got those 3 guys all at half-price, this team still wouldn't win a round. Embrace the tank.

 

[Empoleon8771]

At forward, I think they should be targetting "good producers on bad teams" players, ideally guys that can put up production by playing in inflated roles and traded at the deadline for futures. It's the same thing Chicago is doing with Donato right now. Looking at UFA right now, I really like Olofsson, Roslovic, Mangiapane and Kuzmenko for those roles. Beauvillier fits that as well, but Sullivan never used him in a way to try to maximize his value by forcefeeding him minutes.

On defense, I just want guys who can eat minutes. I'm totally content with bringing back Grzelcyk for that exact reason, he's not very good but you know he can play 21 minutes a night while not being completely terrible.

If the Penguins were actually operating like a rebuild should, they'd be selling Rakell immediately, signing Mangiapane and Kuzmenko to expensive 1 year deals and running with a top-6 of something like:

Mangiapane-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Kuzmenko

While giving Kuzmenko PP1 minutes and keeping Mangiapane locked to Crosby's LW. Basically try to get as much production out of those expensive 1 year deal players and then flip them at the deadline with retention.

 

[SomeDude]

Even if you got those 3 guys all at half-price, this team still wouldn't win a round. Embrace the tank.

I dunno, a half priced Nieto could rejuvenate the organization.