Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXVI: Sid is Still Goat

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Gross

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm afraid to touch this topic, but I don't really see how keeping Rust is a move that goes against a rebuild. Like oh no, you're missing out on the 2nd plus a cap dump you'd get back for him. If he had significant value I'd have a much different opinion, but he's like 33 and a lot of teams probably view him as a product of Crosby.

Keeping Rakell would be stupid because Rakell should definitely be able to bring back a 1st+, but Rust? I don't think you're losing any sort of notable value by not trading him, and you can keep Crosby happy by just letting him play out his career with Rust.

I know this place has a low opinion on Rust in general and how the team worships him is silly, but I don't really see much of an issue with holding onto him.

 

[Deport Ogie]

Boy it's super crazy how EK looked like the player he is away from this team.

Baffling. Truly a mystery for the ages. Must be Ron Hextall's fault.

And I'm sure it's just as coincidental that one of the better young PMD in the league played for Sullivan at 4N and looked like microwaved boogers in tupperware for the entirety of the tournament.

Man, I'm mostly indifferent to Rust but I'm tempted by the thought of Yohe having to write a 5,000 word mournful lament when it happens. Something of the same tone of having to eulogize your dog.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm afraid to touch this topic, but I don't really see how keeping Rust is a move that goes against a rebuild. Like oh no, you're missing out on the 2nd plus a cap dump you'd get back for him. If he had significant value I'd have a much different opinion, but he's like 33 and a lot of teams probably view him as a product of Crosby.

Keeping Rakell would be stupid because Rakell should definitely be able to bring back a 1st+, but Rust? I don't think you're losing any sort of notable value by not trading him, and you can keep Crosby happy by just letting him play out his career with Rust.

It's fine from an asset management POV. I think you are about right re: his value and I just don't care about middling picks as much as a lot of you seem to.

My issue has always just been the way the team generally looks at Rust... not his fault but it's so ridiculous and asinine. They act like they drafted and developed prime Bure or something. He's often talked about in the same way franchise pillars are. He was called "The Ultimate Penguin" FFS. I don't get it with this guy.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's fine from an asset management POV. I think you are about right re: his value and I just don't care about middling picks as much as a lot of you seem to.

My issue has always just been the way the team generally looks at Rust... not his fault but it's so ridiculous and asinine. They act like they drafted and developed prime Bure or something. He's often talked about in the same way franchise pillars are. He was called "The Ultimate Penguin" FFS. I don't get it with this guy.

Yeah I added that I think how the team views him is silly in an edit, which I agree with. How they love him is silly but they're not really hurting anything by holding onto him, so I just don't really see an issue with keeping him. It lets Crosby be happy as the rest of the team around him is a burning tire fire.

 

[SEALBound]

The Penguins already got their return for those guys when they took them on in the first place. We have seen first hand why they were in that position in the first place. Besides YOU are underestimating how much the team likely WANTS those guys here. Especially Glass. They really think they have something with that guy which is hilarious. Bad as Hayes has been... he's been better than whatever Glass is supposed to be doing out there.

I think it's possible they move Hayes along for whatever they can get if there is even interest to that degree. Sullivan doesn't seem as enamored with him and that could free up some money for him to go waste on the next Brock McGinn or whatever this upcoming offseason.

It's not always a mutually exclusive situation though. I mean, yeah, I think it's incredibly fair to say that the team wanted Glass and Hayes here in some capacity. I imagine if it was "pay to acquire Glass or Hayes", we probably wouldn't have. I also imagine if there was lower return like "Glass for FC and Hayes+6th" we also probably wouldn't have done either deal.

Dubas: "hey, we can get Hayes and 2nd for nothing, what do you think?"
Sullivan: "Yeah, I think Hayes could work well enough here and the 2nd makes it worth doing"

is probably how it went down. The premise of trading them later for an extra pick is part of it but certainly not the primary consideration. It's the added draft capital up front first, potential impact on the roster second, whatever extra you can get third.

The team has far more issues than what Glass or Hayes are doing or not doing. We got a 2nd, two 3rds, and a 6th to take them. Plus, whatever else if we trade them. I don't understand what the issue is with doing those deals? Those seem like insanely smart deals to make if the goal is to acquire young players and draft capital. Glass may not be the most desirable 2nd line player, but given the context, it's fine.

We are clearly rebuilding.

At the same time:

Not unexpected. They like Rust. He's not the difference between us tanking or not tanking. Every shit team has a Rust - including us.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah I added that I think how the team views him is silly in an edit, which I agree with. How they love him is silly but they're not really hurting anything by holding onto him, so I just don't really see an issue with keeping him. It lets Crosby be happy as the rest of the team around him is a burning tire fire.

I think... at least speaking for myself... that it's a bit frustrating because Raks (at least to my eyes) is the superior player and will end up getting a ticket out of town instead of Rust. I realize that you could build a passable first line with either but I'd rather do it with Raks than Rust.

 

[SEALBound]

I mean I'm in it for entertainment. Even just having a player like Marner around would make things more interesting than whatever this is.

But you aren't wrong... I fully admit it. Any plan right now seems kinda wrong and pointless until what should be VERY obvious issues are addressed.

Plus look at what @Gurglesons posted above -- you guys actually think this team is SERIOUS? Why even entertain the idea of a "proper" rebuild at this juncture? It's theater.

I mean, it's still right in line with the "plan" that's been touted since last year: Rebuild for future while still supporting Sid while he is here.

Keeping Rust and not trading Rakell unless the return is high is spot on from that playbook.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean, it's still right in line with the "plan" that's been touted since last year: Rebuild for future while still supporting Sid while he is here.

Keeping Rust and not trading Rakell unless the return is high is spot on from that playbook.

It's the same mushy middle that they have been trying for years, though. It's not a rebuild. When this team goes right back to the well and signs 3-5 vets this upcoming offseason to fill out the roster instead of this mythical "youth movement" maybe you'll believe me then?

Ya'll hated it with the last GM. With this guy it's cool and fine.

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The core of the 2008-09 Pittsburgh Penguins was unquestionably 21-year-old Crosby, 22-year-old Malkin, 20-year-old Staal, and 21-year-old Letang.

But that team likely doesn't win without 38-year-old Guerin, 34-year-old Gonchar, 33-year-old Gill and even 30-year-old Matt Cooke.

I don't think there's anything wrong with having 4-5 older players who have won playoff games and even won Stanley Cups around to lead a roster full of younger players when the time comes.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Rust is a guy who is gonna be worthless sooner than later, and there's a pretty sweet window of opportunity coming up this summer where his NTC falls off and you can probably get something of value from a team desperate after having missed out on signing someone in the first few days of FA. A king's ransom? Probably not, but for a team in the Pens' position, draft capital and/or young players should be the focus.

Also, it'd make Sullivan sad. Also, f*** Bryan Rust. That's why.

(Disclaimer: I know full well the Pens aren't gonna be 1/5th as proactive, ambitious, or aggressive as I or anyone else want them to be.)

"Welllllllllllllll we MIGHT move Raks but it's gonna take like... a top five pick or a consensus top ten prospect in the league. What's that? Bryan Rust? lol no way buddy... that's our future captain!"

WTF is this team doing haha

If you manage to crack the mystery, be sure to let the team know.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

My issue has always just been the way the team generally looks at Rust... not his fault but it's so ridiculous and asinine. They act like they drafted and developed prime Bure or something. He's often talked about in the same way franchise pillars are. He was called "The Ultimate Penguin" FFS. I don't get it with this guy.

Yeah, it's the drooling over him from everyone in the FO that makes me not like him. Like you said, not his fault, but he isn't half the player this organization views him as.

 

[BobCole]

It's the same mushy middle that they have been trying for years, though. It's not a rebuild. When this team goes right back to the well and signs 3-5 vets this upcoming offseason to fill out the roster instead of this mythical "youth movement" maybe you'll believe me then?

Ya'll hated it with the last GM. With this guy it's cool and fine.

That doesn't make any sense.

I hate everything about the current situation, but for the record, "years" is really more like 1 or 2 years. The team was still a 100+ point team in 2022. They failed to make the playoffs by one measly point in 2023. They finally threw in the towel towards the trade deadline last year (and then somehow still almost made the playoffs).

Everything sucks, but - at most - we're precisely one year into "rebuild" mode.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

It's the same mushy middle that they have been trying for years, though. It's not a rebuild. When this team goes right back to the well and signs 3-5 vets this upcoming offseason to fill out the roster instead of this mythical "youth movement" maybe you'll believe me then?

Ya'll hated it with the last GM. With this guy it's cool and fine.

That doesn't make any sense.

If Dubas signs 3-5 Lars Eller/Noel Acciari types this summer, I will be first in line to criticize him.

If he signs 2-3 high end caliber players, a Marner and Chychrun, for example, then I think that's a different line.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, it's the drooling over him from everyone in the FO that makes me not like him. Like you said, not his fault, but he isn't half the player this organization views him as.

Ironically, given recent discourse, Mitch Marner is the player this team and coach think Bryan Rust is.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If Dubas signs 3-5 Lars Eller/Noel Acciari types this summer, I will be first in line to criticize him.

If he signs 2-3 high end caliber players, a Marner and Chychrun, for example, then I think that's a different line.

Buddy regardless of how much we disagree you know I like and respect you... but... lol no you won't.

You and everyone else will just kick the can down the road again and mumble something about how the AHL guys STILL aren't ready or whatever.

I hate everything about the current situation, but for the record, "years" is really more like 1 or 2 years. The team was still a 100+ point team in 2022. They failed to make the playoffs by one measly point in 2023. They finally threw in the towel towards the trade deadline last year (and then somehow still almost made the playoffs).

Everything sucks, but - at most - we're precisely one year into "rebuild" mode.

No I mean that they've been trying the whole "build assets AND compete!" thing for years spanning back to Hextall. They haven't picked a lane I would argue even to this day if they are seriously gonna sit here and tell us Bryan flippin' Rust is untouchable.

 

[BobCole]

No I mean that they've been trying the whole "build assets AND compete!" thing for years spanning back to Hextall. They haven't picked a lane I would argue even to this day if they are seriously gonna sit here and tell us Bryan flippin' Rust is untouchable.

Gotcha. That's fair.

Sadly I don't think a guy like Rust would return a haul, but I definitely would be OK moving him. We're really in a jam where we don't have many valuable assets. I'm glad to see we have nonetheless been moving the ones we have, like Jake and MP.

I'd like to see EK and Rakell moved. I'm with you. Choose a lane. The lane is clearly, "strip it down and rebuild."

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Buddy regardless of how much we disagree you know I like and respect you... but... lol no you won't.

You and everyone else will just kick the can down the road again and mumble something about how the AHL guys STILL aren't ready or whatever.

No, there are two suitable paths forward this summer --
1. Sign a couple of big, splashy free agents and backfill the roster with the best of the kids from WBS.
2. Go full youth movement, any new additions are from acquiring bad contracts that come along with assets like the Hayes deal, with the intention of getting the No. 1 pick.

No middle. If there's an attempt at the middle, it'll be a failure. This year was a transition year. Now it's time to go further down a particular path.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Gotcha. That's fair.

Sadly I don't think a guy like Rust would return a haul, but I definitely would be OK moving him. We're really in a jam where we don't have many valuable assets. I'm glad to see we have nonetheless been moving the ones we have, like Jake and MP.

I'd like to see EK and Rakell moved. I'm with you. Choose a lane. The lane is clearly, "strip it down and rebuild."

Right. I don't LIKE it... as long as Sid is around I would prefer to compete and compete seriously. That of course means the coach would be f***ing things up behind the Devils bench at this point or somewhere else a long time since, among other things. But that isn't what they've done and the hole is way too big at this point especially after Dubas had his hand as ratf***ing the roster the last couple of seasons. So you tear it down as hard as you can and start ACTUALLY taking player development seriously.

I GUESS we'll see this Summer but we've been saying that how long now? I'm tired of giving these bozos cover, man. I'm a dolt but even I have my limits for what a fool I'm willing to make out of myself.

No, there are two suitable paths forward this summer --
1. Sign a couple of big, splashy free agents and backfill the roster with the best of the kids from WBS.
2. Go full youth movement, any new additions are from acquiring bad contracts that come along with assets like the Hayes deal, with the intention of getting the No. 1 pick.

No middle. If there's an attempt at the middle, it'll be a failure. This year was a transition year. Now it's time to go further down a particular path.

I mean you aren't wrong. But watch and see haha... your boy will not allow it.

 

[Rudy Russo]

Ultimately if Dallas wanted to make a quantity move for retained EK65 I’d want it to look like ‘26 1st +’26 2nd + Bertucci + Hemming + Dumba. Prob not realistic with his NMC. Also that could be a whole lot of nothing.

Just not sure anything seems enticing enough but I guess it ensures we’d be absolutely terrible next season.

If it comes with a decent prospect sure.

If not - pass.

I think the stars would be fine with their 2026 first, Dumba and prospect for Karlsson with no retention from the penguins.

 

[Rudy Russo]

He’s been a good get imo but it might turn out even better if the coach was fired…playing Glass over him on L2 just because of faceoffs is very Mike Sullivan stupid lol…

I’ve heard the coaching staff love Glass and the front office loves Phillip. I like Tomasimo and Glass is ok but not a at two million a season.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'd take a 2025 1st and meh-to-decent prospect for Rakell. That's probably all you're gonna get tbh, but that's fine. I'd hope for a 2026 1st, though I don't imagine a ~25th overall in a year is gonna be much different when it comes to the odds of the kid turning into an impact NHLer down the line.

I think you can get a 2026 1st and prospect of some distinction for EK if you retain 50% in a trade this summer. He gets to pick his landing spot and he's not gonna want to waste away his final years as an NHLer on a bottom feeder, so again, you're probably looking at like a 20th+ pick there.

Ned, who like Rakell *should* be gone by the TDL, probably snags you like a 3rd. Maybe. But whatever, the real reasoning behind dealing him is bringing up Jarry to tank with, and giving Murashov a spot in the AHL.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I’ve heard the coaching staff love Glass

Which is exactly why he can't be extended. Sullivan thinks Glass can play 2RW, when he should be 4C or HS. He's f***ing terrible.

 

[pistolpete11]

I think if you did one of those Player A vs. Player B things with Rust and Rakell, most people would have to think twice about who is who. Not sure why so many people are confident you could get a 1st for Rakell but that Rust probably isn't even worth trading.

I know we're all sick of Rust which has a lot to do with how this organization has treated him like he's part of the core, but he's likely viewed differently around the league.

 

[SEALBound]

Something like

Karlsson at 25% retained + Ned

for

Spencer Knight
Samoskevich
Conditional 2nd that turns into a 1st if Florida wins the cup.

Nah, not enough unless there was an additional deal in place to flip Knight for a 1st+.

It's the same mushy middle that they have been trying for years, though. It's not a rebuild. When this team goes right back to the well and signs 3-5 vets this upcoming offseason to fill out the roster instead of this mythical "youth movement" maybe you'll believe me then?

Ya'll hated it with the last GM. With this guy it's cool and fine.

That doesn't make any sense.

Thems the breaks when you have Sid here for two more years. You can still do both. Like it's not a mandatory checkmark that you have to trade Rust and Rakell in order to rebuild.

We were less fine with Hextall because 4+ years ago they were still a playoff team that could have legitimately competed for the cup. But given the majority of the moves in the post-JR era, it's led us to being an old team with little in the cupboards. So yeah, I think most of us are fine packing it in now.

I'd take a 2025 1st and meh-to-decent prospect for Rakell. That's probably all you're gonna get tbh, but that's fine. I'd hope for a 2026 1st, though I don't imagine a ~25th overall in a year is gonna be much different when it comes to the odds of the kid turning into an impact NHLer down the line.

I think you can get a 2026 1st and prospect of some distinction for EK if you retain 50% in a trade this summer. He gets to pick his landing spot and he's not gonna want to waste away his final years as an NHLer on a bottom feeder, so again, you're probably looking at like a 20th+ pick there.

Ned, who like Rakell *should* be gone by the TDL, probably snags you like a 3rd. Maybe. But whatever, the real reasoning behind dealing him is bringing up Jarry to tank with, and giving Murashov a spot in the AHL.

Nah, 2026 1st + decent prospect would be the minimum. If it's a 2025 1st, that prospect better be damn good or it needs to be a legit roster player.

Rakell+3rd for Mercer+1st could work
Moore+1st for Rakell is another I'd do
Rakell+4th for Bourque+2025 1st is something I'd consider.

Looking at our pool, I'd want a 2026 1st+Koivunen level of return. Or 2025 1st + McGroarty level (ignore draft pedigree).