Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXVI: Sid is Still Goat

[pistolpete11]

Little late to the discussion, but I think Gryz is probably a better fit for Dallas if he's not injured after Rempe hit him. He's driving offense decently enough this year, cheaper, and wouldn't take as much to acquire as Karlsson.

I think Karlsson can be traded at the deadline, due to having the remaining retention spot still.... but I think he's probably better to trade during the summer when they can spend much more time on negotiating a deal, without the pressure of an upcoming deadline.

The Pens should USE the deadline to apply pressure to the other team.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The issue though is that Dallas may go for an alternative like Seth Jones and you're left without a trade partner for Karlsson.

I think you could also find a trade with Dumba to swap him for someone else that fills a position of need. Something like Dumba to Vancouver for Soucy could make some sense, Soucy would be a useful LD that the Penguins kinda lack right now.

No offense but you guys kinda sold me on the idea of picking up the likes of Glass and Hayes for the sake of a flip down the road and it sure doesn't look like that is gonna happen. You actually have to build or at least maintain player value to do that and this team is not capable.

No more awful players on awful contracts at least until some of these are cleared off the books. Have some other dolt be the Arizona on the other end of the line. Doesn't seem worth it unless there are first rounders or comparable prospects coming the other way.

 

[SEALBound]

If this team doesn't think they're gonna be utter dogshit in three years, they're delusional as hell, man. They're pretty close right now, but once Sid retires? Godspeed.

Even if they end up landing a top 4 pick this draft and somehow luck into McKenna and Dupont the two drafts following, there's still a lotta building to be done. And that kinda stretch of draft fortune is probably a longshot.

Couldn't agree more. My contention has ALWAYS been - you need to be BAD at the RIGHT TIME. In the next two drafts (and even three), there are chances to get the legitimate franchise-level talent you need to legitimately rebuild.

I love Sid and want the world for the guy but looking forward, if you pass up on the chances to get McKenna and/or DuPont, who knows when the next one will come through. There was enough talk about Crosby, McDavid, and McKenna/DuPont from their young ages to know that they are worth pursuing. There's no one, that I know of yet, coming in 2028/29. I'd much rather sacrifice a middling finish and, at the best, first-round exit for Sid in order to get either one of them.

I think last year and this year are the "proof in the pudding" that, hey Sid - man, I think it's over. We need to do the right things here. You can still tank and give Sid good enough linemates to tank. Hell, run Malkin-Sid-Rust. That will get all three the points and still put us in the lottery.

Pipedream is still Misa this draft, McKenna next. THAT sets us up nicely for the next 20 years.

No offense but you guys kinda sold me on the idea of picking up the likes of Glass and Hayes for the sake of a flip down the road and it sure doesn't look like that is gonna happen. You actually have to build or at least maintain player value to do that and this team is not capable.

No more awful players on awful contracts at least until some of these are cleared off the books. Have some other dolt be the Arizona on the other end of the line. Doesn't seem worth it unless there are first rounders or comparable prospects coming the other way.

Hayes is still very much flippable. Why wouldn't he be? It's not the TDL for either year we have him. That seems like a premature dig at reasonable deals during a rebuild/retool. The reason we were able to get 2nds and 3rd is because Glass and Hayes are still decent enough players for a bottom 6 and their contracts were still quite reasonable. The deals that have 1st attached to them are the true anchor deals where the player must be bought out. In the same breath you say you don't want Hayes or Glass deals, you most certainly do not want the deals that will return a first.

That said, with the cap going up, I don't think those deals exist at the moment anyway. Not many anchor contracts in the league anymore. Sure there are a couple guys getting overpaid but they are not useless - such as Nurse.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Hayes is still very much flippable. Why wouldn't he be? It's not the TDL for either year we have him. That seems like a premature dig at reasonable deals during a rebuild/retool.

He has 16 points in 40some games, might be the slowest player in the NHL and is making what he's making. He only managed 29 in a nearly full season last year so this isn't a blip on the radar.

I don't see a market for Kevin Hayes but I'd be happy to be wrong.

EDIT: I do not take the whole "trade for a truly odious contract and flip it later!" idea seriously at all. Seems like a sack of magic beans. YMMV

 

[SEALBound]

He has 16 points in 40some games, might be the slowest player in the NHL and is making what he's making. He only managed 29 in a nearly full season last year so this isn't a blip on the radar.

I don't see a market for Kevin Hayes but I'd be happy to be wrong.

EDIT: I do not take the whole "trade for a truly odious contract and flip it later!" idea seriously at all. Seems like a sack of magic beans. YMMV

Toronto traded their 1st to Carolina to take on and buy out Marleau. With that first, Carolina took Jarvis.

I think you may also be over-rating or over-anticipating what the player would be worth in the flip. Glass is worth maybe a 3rd at most, probably a 4th. Hayes would be worth a 4th. No one is really expecting the ultra rare "they got paid to take on a struggling player, he redeemed himself, and the flipped him for a 1st or 2nd". I can't remember many times of that happening.

I think most of us would be fine getting the extra 4th for either considering we got a 3rd and 6th to take Glass and a 2nd (and 3rd) to take Hayes. That's the return. Anything else is gravy.

 

[Turin]

If this team doesn't think they're gonna be utter dogshit in three years, they're delusional as hell, man. They're pretty close right now, but once Sid retires? Godspeed.

Even if they end up landing a top 4 pick this draft and somehow luck into McKenna and Dupont the two drafts following, there's still a lotta building to be done. And that kinda stretch of draft fortune is probably a longshot.

They have a lot of cap space and picks moving forward and have stated pretty plainly they want to be competitive before the end of Sids contract. Will it work? Probably not. Is it a good idea? Depends on how you view their loyalty to Sid. But that’s clearly the plan.

 

[Empoleon8771]

FYI Yohe released an article today saying Dubas would absolutely trade Karlsson instantly

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Toronto traded their 1st to Carolina to take on and buy out Marleau. With that first, Carolina took Jarvis.

I think you may also be over-rating or over-anticipating what the player would be worth in the flip. Glass is worth maybe a 3rd at most, probably a 4th. Hayes would be worth a 4th. No one is really expecting the ultra rare "they got paid to take on a struggling player, he redeemed himself, and the flipped him for a 1st or 2nd". I can't remember many times of that happening.

I think most of us would be fine getting the extra 4th for either considering we got a 3rd and 6th to take Glass and a 2nd (and 3rd) to take Hayes. That's the return. Anything else is gravy.

The Penguins already got their return for those guys when they took them on in the first place. We have seen first hand why they were in that position in the first place. Besides YOU are underestimating how much the team likely WANTS those guys here. Especially Glass. They really think they have something with that guy which is hilarious. Bad as Hayes has been... he's been better than whatever Glass is supposed to be doing out there.

I think it's possible they move Hayes along for whatever they can get if there is even interest to that degree. Sullivan doesn't seem as enamored with him and that could free up some money for him to go waste on the next Brock McGinn or whatever this upcoming offseason.

 

[Peat]

The issue though is that Dallas may go for an alternative like Seth Jones and you're left without a trade partner for Karlsson.

I think you could also find a trade with Dumba to swap him for someone else that fills a position of need. Something like Dumba to Vancouver for Soucy could make some sense, Soucy would be a useful LD that the Penguins kinda lack right now.

Without having really paid attention to things, my gut reaction to that is if Dallas would rather get a Seth Jones instead, their offer for Karlsson isn't really strong enough to get upset about. But then I'm in no rush to move Karlsson.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

They have a lot of cap space and picks moving forward and have stated pretty plainly they want to be competitive before the end of Sids contract. Will it work? Probably not. Is it a good idea? Depends on how you view their loyalty to Sid. But that’s clearly the plan.

What's the plan? Throw a near-max deal at Marner to lure him to a team in the throes of being aggressively terrible, only for the team to be unable to move him after Sid retires due to Sullivan's coaching and system turning him into like a 75pt guy making $13M+ AAV with a full NMC? I'm stoked.

Fool me once with EK; landing a dynamic talent in hopes of salvaging some semblance of dignity as the Sid and Geno era winds to a close, just to have this coach ratf*** the whole plan. I know Marner's much younger, but he's not a building block guy for the post-Sid/Geno era and this is definitely just gonna play out like the EK situation if the team manages to somehow convince Marner to waste several years of his prime here. /shrug

 

[Empoleon8771]

What I’m hearing about a potential Penguins Erik Karlsson trade

The Penguins are willing to talk about a Karlsson trade if there are any takers.

www.nytimes.com

A couple of comments:

One team source told me that, if Dubas could, he would trade Karlsson “in a heartbeat.”

An Eastern Conference executive told me, “Karlsson is out there, but Pittsburgh would have to retain (salary).”

League sources have told me that Karlsson’s outstanding play in the 4 Nations Face-Off drew attention. One NHL team executive told me that Karlsson simply might be a bad fit in Penguins coach Mike Sullivan’s system and that, if properly insulated by “a good defense team,” he could probably be effective and intriguing for potential buyers.

An NHL team executive also told me he believes Karlsson is more likely to be dealt this summer, when the salary cap has risen dramatically. At that point, the executive said, teams will be more likely to take on the majority of Karlsson’s bulky contract.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

What's the plan? Throw a near-max deal at Marner to lure him to a team in the throes of being aggressively terrible, only for the team to be unable to move him after Sid retires due to Sullivan's coaching and system turning him into like a 75pt guy making $13M+ AAV with a full NMC? I'm stoked.

Fool me once with EK; landing a dynamic talent in hopes of salvaging some semblance of dignity as the Sid and Geno era winds to a close, just to have this coach ratf*** the whole plan. I know Marner's much younger, but he's not a building block guy for the post-Sid/Geno era and this is definitely just gonna play out like the EK situation if the team manages to somehow convince Marner to waste several years of his prime here. /shrug

It's a pretty dumb plan honestly. I admit.

But I'd prefer to fill the team up with great players on shit contracts than shit players on shit contracts. I feel like that seems pretty obvious but here we are.

They are gonna be bad enough... I promise you guys lol

 

[Ulf5]

FYI Yohe released an article today saying Dubas would absolutely trade Karlsson instantly

Not that I think yohe knows anything about anything especially hockey. Nor does he have inside info.
But I keep going back to a quote from EK earlier in the season. He basically said 58, 71 and 87 have their rings. I do not.
That tells you he would waive to go to a contender or three. The question is, can Dubas find the right fit?
I keep hoping Waddell decides to make a push and go for it with all that space. I think EK would help/ fit in with their team.
They're currently in the teens. You could probably get their 1st and a decent young player/prospect.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Boy it's super crazy how EK looked like the player he is away from this team.

Baffling. Truly a mystery for the ages. Must be Ron Hextall's fault.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Hey guys, good news, we're all smart and savvy enough to be NHL execs since everyone saw EK being misused the moment Sullivan said he was excited to fix the game of the 100pt Norris winner.

 

[Gurglesons]

We are clearly rebuilding.

At the same time:

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's a pretty dumb plan honestly. I admit.

But I'd prefer to fill the team up with great players on shit contracts than shit players on shit contracts. I feel like that seems pretty obvious but here we are.

They are gonna be bad enough... I promise you guys lol

Eh, I dunno man. Chasing Marner in FA is f***ing dumb as shit imo. I barely watch now, but I'd still rather them trot out losers like Hayes, Glass, and Beau knowing they're gonna be dogshit, than to watch Sullivan be given the green light to completely ratf*** Marner's game.

Again, this team's barely background noise fodder for me anymore, I can only assume you're in a similar boat when it comes to following. Sully's even killed my desire to tune in to see if Sid or Geno manage to score. The thought of him taking some 100pt, dynamic forward like Marner and "being excited to fix his game" a la EK is nauseating. We all know how it's gonna go.

 

[Gurglesons]

Eh, I dunno man. Chasing Marner in FA is f***ing dumb as shit imo. I barely watch now, but I'd still rather them trot out losers like Hayes, Glass, and Beau knowing they're gonna be dogshit, than to watch Sullivan be given the green light to completely ratf*** Marner's game.

Again, this team's barely background noise fodder for me anymore, I can only assume you're in a similar boat when it comes to following. Sully's even killed my desire to tune in to see if Sid or Geno manage to score. The thought of him taking some 100pt, dynamic forward like Marner and "being excited to fix his game" a la EK is nauseating. We all know how it's gonna go.

Hasn't that been the case since like 2019?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Eh, I dunno man. Chasing Marner in FA is f***ing dumb as shit imo. I barely watch now, but I'd still rather them trot out losers like Hayes, Glass, and Beau knowing they're gonna be dogshit, than to watch Sullivan be given the green light to completely ratf*** Marner's game.

Again, this team's barely background noise fodder for me anymore, I can only assume you're in a similar boat when it comes to following. Sully's even killed my desire to tune in to see if Sid or Geno manage to score. The thought of him taking some 100pt, dynamic forward like Marner and "being excited to fix his game" a la EK is nauseating. We all know how it's gonna go.

I mean I'm in it for entertainment. Even just having a player like Marner around would make things more interesting than whatever this is.

But you aren't wrong... I fully admit it. Any plan right now seems kinda wrong and pointless until what should be VERY obvious issues are addressed.

Plus look at what @Gurglesons posted above -- you guys actually think this team is SERIOUS? Why even entertain the idea of a "proper" rebuild at this juncture? It's theater.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean I'm in it for entertainment. Even just having a player like Marner around would make things more interesting than whatever this is.

But you aren't wrong... I fully admit it. Any plan right now seems kinda wrong and pointless until what should be VERY obvious issues are addressed.

Plus look at what @Gurglesons posted above -- you guys actually think this team is SERIOUS? Why even entertain the idea of a "proper" rebuild at this juncture? It's theater.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

View attachment 982668

"We are reluctant to trade this guy for futures."

...

"This is about the future"

???

This whole team and it's entire orbit are chock full of morons, huh?

 

[Andy99]

If Dubas has his way, this is going to be a boring-ass deadline apparently lol…

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Everything about this organization is dysfunctional and embarrassing to an aggravating degree, man. Maddening stuff.

I mean I'm in it for entertainment. Even just having a player like Marner around would make things more interesting than whatever this is.

But you aren't wrong... I fully admit it. Any plan right now seems kinda wrong and pointless until what should be VERY obvious issues are addressed.

Plus look at what @Gurglesons posted above -- you guys actually think this team is SERIOUS? Why even entertain the idea of a "proper" rebuild at this juncture? It's theater.

I don't even know about that first part, man. I love the idea of adding Marner from a fan standpoint. I hate the idea once I realize exactly how it's all gonna end up playing out;

Marner tears it up in pre-season and for the first 10 games. Suddenly goes cold. By December, he's velcro'd to the walls, taking low percentage shots from distance, ends up producing at like a 70ish point clip for the first season here. The second season's worse with Sid going to be 39. The summer after Sid retires, we're all here talking about how to navigate Marner's full NMC and how much the team's gonna have to retain on his $13M AAV deal to find teams interested in even trading their 25th overall pick and afterthought prospect for the guy.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

"Welllllllllllllll we MIGHT move Raks but it's gonna take like... a top five pick or a consensus top ten prospect in the league. What's that? Bryan Rust? lol no way buddy... that's our future captain!"

WTF is this team doing haha

 

[tnnr]

I would love it if EK when to Florida. I'm rooting for them to repeat. I just have no idea what an actual deal looks like. I think they only do if we retain heavily - like 50%, maybe even a 3rd party to retain a bit more. They need to keep funds open to resign Bennett who is more important to their playoff dreams than EK would be. Looking at their prospect pool, it's pretty bleak.

Something like

Karlsson at 25% retained + Ned

for

Spencer Knight
Samoskevich
Conditional 2nd that turns into a 1st if Florida wins the cup.