Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXV - Poolman and Poolparty?!?

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What!? You're saying Crosby didn't get traded to the Avs?
No, but we should all make satirical AVs playoff avs this year.
I guess don't get the need to hear players explicitly say something that is clearly happening anyway :dunno:
Why wouldn't we want a player that is constantly hyped as "the best leader of his generation"... to lead?

Also, like it or not, Sid has weight in the organization and has thrown it around before. So, him choosing not to means something, sorry if that is harsh to say.
 
So with the Canucks likely not adding anymore, what teams need a LHD like Pettersson? Seems like everyone need a RHD but the market on LHD seems thin. The only team I can really see is the Oilers
 
And how does Sid exactly not know this is happening though? He can see the tape as well as us. He knows where the team sits in the standings, he's been in the league for 20 years, he knows what happens to teams who struggle and are this far behind the pack before the TDL. He knows how to make his opinions felt (remember his enforcer phase)?

It's silly to act like Sid has no agency in this situation. Like I said, he doesn't have Lemieux's perspective of having to be an owner and knowing that the team is doomed unless things are cut to the bone for the near future, followed by an aggressive rebuild. So I don't expect him to make that decision. But Sid is allowing this to happen, even if by virtue of trying to stay meek and quiet.

Refusing to make a decision for the good of the club because you don't want to rock the boat is not a good look for a captain of the team.
It’s more likely that Sid believes this team can still compete and it’s just a matter of a few bounces. Yeah that sounds insane but his career has seen an over abundance of playoff appearances, success, and extended winning streaks. It’s a forest from the trees situation and at the end of the day, that’s why you have a front office. To make the decisions that others sometimes can’t see.

If they drop these last two games on the road and they don’t make serious moves including firing sullivan, then i really don’t know how this situation is any different than Bob Nutting not spending money or Art 2 not seeing that the Steelers are not contenders.
 
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So with the Canucks likely not adding anymore, what teams need a LHD like Pettersson? Seems like everyone need a RHD but the market on LHD seems thin. The only team I can really see is the Oilers

Edmonton sticks out as an obvious fit. They have the cap space with Kane on LTIR and almost definitely want to add a defensively sound D at the deadline. I think they'd prefer a RD but Pettersson is also exactly what they need.

Pettersson to Edmonton for St. Louis's 2nd (from the Broberg offersheet) and Akey seems like a good guess for what a MP trade could look like. The 2nd will be about the same that they got for Guentzel last year and Akey is another Koivunen/Ponomarev caliber prospect.
 
It's not up to Sid to determine what is best for the team. Sure, maybe the coach and management are acting based on what they think (or even know) makes Sid most comfortable. It's their job to make those decisions anyway.
Sid has also always said that doesn't meddle in front office affairs. Now certainly, some thoughts and desires naturally make its way from the captain to Dubas but I would be flat out shocked if Sid ever made a direct request. It's clear the guy still wants to compete and win. If he was in the business of forcing hands, we'd be seeing Guentzel-Crosby-Rust on a nightly basis while staring at a lucrative long-term deal for Jake that all of the usual suspects here would be bemoaning every single day.
Agreed, but Sid not having that organizational vision tarnishes his legacy in my mind.

Like I said, it's fine to be selfish or to want to play to an end date or whatever. But not saying it is the worst and pretending like "next year we're gonna make it, I swear" is insulting. He's well within his rights to do so, but it does lower my opinion of him.

I'd be perfectly satisfied if he said "I just want to go out there and try to cement my legacy on the scoring leaders". Or equally satisfied (if not giving him insane amounts of credit) for saying "yeah, it's time to rebuild, but I want to be here for the next few rookies to help them learn." But to act like he's mystified how bad the team is and yet nothing should change is just the f***ing worst.
It's not Sid's responsibility to have an "organizational vision" though. That's completely inappropriate to burden him with that arbitrary expectation. I mean, to each their own, but woof.

The expectation that he has to explicitly state his intentions to the media is absolutely bizarre as well. You want to tarnish the legacy you've built as a team-first, world-class leader - you go to the media and say, "I don't care about competing; I'm focused on raising up the ranks of the scoring leaders". I mean, have you ever met Sidney Crosby? Or did you just find out about him a week ago? I can't not think of ANYTHING more opposite for Sid to do than that. That is bizarro-world Sid shit right there.

These sudden, arbitrary expectations everyone is now throwing on Sid are absolutely wild. "If Sid doesn't do X, Y, and Z, then it will tarnish his legacy!" STFU. No it won't. That's is flat out stupid to say.
 
I think the deadline at this point will be fairly underwhelming, because I think they won't trade Rakell if Rust is out, because they won't want to take away all of the wingers around Crosby. I think we're realistically just looking at:

-Pettersson to someone for a 2nd and B prospect
-O'Connor and Grzelcyk for a 3rd
-Beauvillier for a 4th

I would be pretty surprised to see more than that, simply because the Penguins don't have any other attractive assets to sell. They won't move Bunting for the same reason they won't move Rakell, they don't want to leave Malkin with nothing. Rust is injured and has a NMC so he won't be moved. Karlsson could be moved, but Dubas did say he wasn't interested in using a retention slot like that and I think that's more of an off-season move anyway. Beyond that, is there even anything of value left?
 
It's not Sid's responsibility to have an "organizational vision" though. That's completely inappropriate to burden him with that arbitrary expectation. I mean, to each their own, but woof.

The expectation that he has to explicitly state his intentions to the media is absolutely bizarre as well. You want to tarnish the legacy you've built as a team-first, world-class leader - you go to the media and say, "I don't care about competing; I'm focused on raising up the ranks of the scoring leaders". I mean, have you ever met Sidney Crosby? Or did you just find out about him a week ago? I can't not think of ANYTHING more opposite for Sid to do than that. That is bizarro-world Sid shit right there.

These sudden, arbitrary expectations everyone is now throwing on Sid are absolutely wild. "If Sid doesn't do X, Y, and Z, then it will tarnish his legacy!" STFU. No it won't. That's is flat out stupid to say.
Yeah how stupid to expect the guy who is keeping the status quo in place to have to at least answer a question about it. :laugh: But do at least try to read the post you're quoting Seal.

I'm not saying Sid should be un-Sid. I'm saying Sid being Sid is part of the reason we're in this mess. So, for me, that's kinda shitty, but it's natural and at the same time, I think it's also natural to be annoyed at it.

Hockey players do shitty things all the time. It's not news, even the really good ones. I think it was shitty too that Jágr just gave up on teams multiple times for more money and his ego too. I think it was shitty that Dupuis lied about his health to keep playing the game when it could have killed him on the ice. I think it was shitty that Ted Lindsay was traded for trying to stick up for players' rights too, doesn't keep me from watching the game.

Hell, all we do as fans is burden someone we don't know with unrealistic expectations. At least I'm open about it.

"Sid doesn't meddle in front office affairs"

[enter stage right] Sid: Get me an enforcer.
Coach: Don't want an enforcer.
Sid: GET ME AN ENFORCER.
JR: Let's spend a 1st on an enforcer for Sid.
Reaves: Hi
[exits, pursued by bear]

*scene*
 
I think the deadline at this point will be fairly underwhelming, because I think they won't trade Rakell if Rust is out, because they won't want to take away all of the wingers around Crosby. I think we're realistically just looking at:

-Pettersson to someone for a 2nd and B prospect
-O'Connor and Grzelcyk for a 3rd
-Beauvillier for a 4th

I would be pretty surprised to see more than that, simply because the Penguins don't have any other attractive assets to sell. They won't move Bunting for the same reason they won't move Rakell, they don't want to leave Malkin with nothing. Rust is injured and has a NMC so he won't be moved. Karlsson could be moved, but Dubas did say he wasn't interested in using a retention slot like that and I think that's more of an off-season move anyway. Beyond that, is there even anything of value left?

Malkin could have Rust or Rakell. There is not reason they have to keep all 3.
 
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I think the deadline at this point will be fairly underwhelming, because I think they won't trade Rakell if Rust is out, because they won't want to take away all of the wingers around Crosby. I think we're realistically just looking at:

-Pettersson to someone for a 2nd and B prospect
-O'Connor and Grzelcyk for a 3rd
-Beauvillier for a 4th

I would be pretty surprised to see more than that, simply because the Penguins don't have any other attractive assets to sell. They won't move Bunting for the same reason they won't move Rakell, they don't want to leave Malkin with nothing. Rust is injured and has a NMC so he won't be moved. Karlsson could be moved, but Dubas did say he wasn't interested in using a retention slot like that and I think that's more of an off-season move anyway. Beyond that, is there even anything of value left?
I would argue that moving Bunting and using the cap space to take in a cap dump + asset would be a pretty smart way to get more assets. Malkin won't complain about it, he might not even play often enough next season to notice we've replaced Bunting with some plug, and if they do mesh, you move the cap dump casualty at the TDL for even more assets.

At this point, it really doesn't seem to make any sense to me to hold on to these guys.
 
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Malkin could have Rust or Rakell. There is not reason they have to keep all 3.

"I think the deadline at this point will be fairly underwhelming, because I think they won't trade Rakell if Rust is out, because they won't want to take away all of the wingers around Crosby. "

If Rust is healthy, I think they'd just heavily explore trading Rakell. But if Rust is out, they won't move Rakell.
 
Edmonton sticks out as an obvious fit. They have the cap space with Kane on LTIR and almost definitely want to add a defensively sound D at the deadline. I think they'd prefer a RD but Pettersson is also exactly what they need.

Pettersson to Edmonton for St. Louis's 2nd (from the Broberg offersheet) and Akey seems like a good guess for what a MP trade could look like. The 2nd will be about the same that they got for Guentzel last year and Akey is another Koivunen/Ponomarev caliber prospect.
Yeah, it's right in the mold of the Pettersson/Mynio + 2nd from Vancouver value that's been discussed at depth. I wish Akey was a bit bigger and a bit more physical but adding a RH PMD RD would be nice. Pickering and Pie on the left, Brunicke and Akey on the right is a solid foundation of d-prospects moving into a rebuild.

There are a couple other teams that could maybe want a boost as well, especially if we add DOC to the mix. I could even see Tampa and Boston having interest. I was wondering if we could somehow get Lysell from Boston for a Pettersson/DOC+ package. Tampa doesn't have much to offer. And I wonder if taking on Dumba from Dallas could help us nab Bourque? I know we discussed that in the EK thread but there could possibly be interest there if you consider that you could resign Pettersson or open up cap space for next year. From the center aspect, you could merely resign DOC. I can't imagine he'd be that much worse than Bourque in the short term.
 
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Are we sure Malkin will not also be out? Have they talked about his injury?

Yeah I think that is a factor as well. I don't think we've heard anything about his injury yet.

Frankly for the "blow up the roster" aspect, it would be best if Malkin was out for the year and they took that as an initiative to sell as much as possible.
 
I think the deadline at this point will be fairly underwhelming, because I think they won't trade Rakell if Rust is out, because they won't want to take away all of the wingers around Crosby. I think we're realistically just looking at:

-Pettersson to someone for a 2nd and B prospect
-O'Connor and Grzelcyk for a 3rd
-Beauvillier for a 4th

I would be pretty surprised to see more than that, simply because the Penguins don't have any other attractive assets to sell. They won't move Bunting for the same reason they won't move Rakell, they don't want to leave Malkin with nothing. Rust is injured and has a NMC so he won't be moved. Karlsson could be moved, but Dubas did say he wasn't interested in using a retention slot like that and I think that's more of an off-season move anyway. Beyond that, is there even anything of value left?
That's still 4 guys out with who knows who coming back. From a roster perspective, that's a very active deadline. It just lacks super sexy moves but we don't have the opportunity for that.

Yeah I think that is a factor as well. I don't think we've heard anything about his injury yet.

Frankly for the "blow up the roster" aspect, it would be best if Malkin was out for the year and they took that as an initiative to sell as much as possible.
But realistically, who else would they sell off if he was? Beyond who you named in the post above, I'm not sure there's really much more to do. I don't think Malkin out suddenly put Rakell on the block for example.

Might be a double-edged sword Malkin being out. I would hope they have more awareness and clarity than to say "well, the only reason we didn't make it is because Geno got hurt. We can try again!"
 
That's still 4 guys out with who knows who coming back. From a roster perspective, that's a very active deadline. It just lacks super sexy moves but we don't have the opportunity for that.


But realistically, who else would they sell off if he was? Beyond who you named in the post above, I'm not sure there's really much more to do. I don't think Malkin out suddenly put Rakell on the block for example.

Might be a double-edged sword Malkin being out. I would hope they have more awareness and clarity than to say "well, the only reason we didn't make it is because Geno got hurt. We can try again!"

I think you trade Bunting with no second guesses if Malkin is out. His value is only going to be hurt by playing with Kevin Hayes at 2C, so sell now when he's still having a good year.
 
Why wouldn't we want a player that is constantly hyped as "the best leader of his generation"... to lead?
I wouldn't call saying "I just want to go out there and try to cement my legacy on the scoring leaders" as being a leader, but that might just be me.

Also, like it or not, Sid has weight in the organization and has thrown it around before. So, him choosing not to means something, sorry if that is harsh to say.
It's pretty rare. Re-signing Malkin is the only somewhat credible example I'm aware of. A lot of the "they can't do this or that because Sid won't let them" is fan speculation. Because we've heard that a lot and they've ended up doing a lot of it and Sid just keeps showing up for work. Latest example is they have to re-sign Guentzel to keep Sid happy. They didn't and then Sid signed an extension.

I'm also pretty lost on what you think they should be doing and how Crosby is preventing that from happening. Rebuild? They traded Guentzel. They're almost guaranteed to be trading Petts. I'm sure they'll trade Gryz or Beau or DOC if they can find takers. Seems they are open to trading Karlsson and maybe even Letang. I'd be pretty surprised if they don't trade Rakell, Rust, Bunting, etc. before their contracts are up. Might not be the tear it down to the studs immediately rebuild some fans want, but Sid's not preventing a rebuild. It's happening now.
 
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I thought bringing in Quinn would at least have an affect here, but no.

We saw the Real Karlsson for like 8 games in October 2023 and that was that. Every once and a while he has a dominant game but he just doesn't play like himself.

Those 8 games were truly magical
I was at one of those 8 games, dude was actually INSANE to watch. Looked like a video game player.
 
I think you trade Bunting with no second guesses if Malkin is out. His value is only going to be hurt by playing with Kevin Hayes at 2C, so sell now when he's still having a good year.
Fair. If he stayed though, yeah it might tank the value a bit but he could still rebound next year and be just as valuable as a rental.

I keep thinking about Colorado as they are looking to add still, apparently. If I'm Sakic, I'm hard on Dubas about Rakell. I think Rakell very much fits the exact move they need to make before the TDL. Having a great year, can play with high-end players, and you get him this year and next at a price that is very nice for a top line capable winger. Yeah, they can go the rental route but then you have to find that wing in FA and pay more for less or you have a make a trade with extra assets out. You ain't getting Rakell for a $5mil or less in FA this upcoming year. You're either going semi-big with a Boeser-like signing or taking the chance with a guy like Roslovic, Dadonov, or Donato. Likely with a hit and term that is much uglier than Rakell's.
 
That's still 4 guys out with who knows who coming back. From a roster perspective, that's a very active deadline. It just lacks super sexy moves but we don't have the opportunity for that.


But realistically, who else would they sell off if he was? Beyond who you named in the post above, I'm not sure there's really much more to do. I don't think Malkin out suddenly put Rakell on the block for example.

Might be a double-edged sword Malkin being out. I would hope they have more awareness and clarity than to say "well, the only reason we didn't make it is because Geno got hurt. We can try again!"

Id still try to move Bunting even though I like him. He isn't that expensive of a depth forward at 4.5. Especially with the cap going up a lot this summer. I would actually try to move Petts at full value and retain on bunting.

Bunting has as many points in the past 3 seasons as someone like Lindholm. If you retained 50% you might be able to get a first for him. He would be a great deal for a contender at 2.25 for 2 years. I don't think there is anyway you get first even with retention for petts.


Fair. If he stayed though, yeah it might tank the value a bit but he could still rebound next year and be just as valuable as a rental.
Why does Bunting need to rebound? He is on pace for almost 50pts and 25goals. That his norm and also reasonable for his contract
 
Rebuild? They traded Guentzel
Amazing, time to celebrate the top 5 pick we got out of the trade, the hard work is done.

I wouldn't call saying "I just want to go out there and try to cement my legacy on the scoring leaders" as being a leader, but that might just be me.
It wouldn't be the mark of a leader; but it'd be honest. It's what Jágr does every single press conference here and I've come around to respecting him for it, because he's not a leader. It's what Ovie does. It's more honest than lying to yourself and the team that we're juuuuust out of playoff contention and a few more bounces and we'll make it in. It's more honest than saying "we just didn't execute enough" for the millionth time. I know he's not going to do it. That doesn't mean it isn't worth doing, the same way that Sullivan having aging stars doesn't absolve him of his coaching decisions.

I dunno why that's such a hard thing to say here. Yinz are free to canonize Sid, I've got no beef with it. I still like him as a Pen, he's not my all-time favorite or anything, but it's been an honor to have him. But this myth of him being totally selfless takes a hit in my eyes the longer the team continues to stay the course because of this inability to upset him that seems to be everywhere.

But mostly, I dislike Sid at the moment because he seemingly likes this shit brand of hockey we are playing, which apparently is the masterstroke of our rebuild. I cannot wait to see the untold riches of all the 3rd liners we are developing in the future and tell my child about how, yes, Penguins hockey is really really boring these days and in the far off days of yore, it was actually exciting.
 

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