Rumor: 23-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part Trois: The Road to the Deadline

[Avs9296]

What are you basing the won't even make it for round 1 on? The Avs have been very deliberate in their messaging on this.

What makes you think they timed the surgery to have him miss the entire regular season? Are you suggesting they purposely waited on the surgery and he could have returned this regular season?

 

[Chiarelli]

never forget those 20 games Byram played in late 2022 where he wasn't a complete liability.

 

[henchman21]

What makes you think they timed the surgery to have him miss the entire regular season? Are you suggesting they purposely waited on the surgery and he could have returned this regular season?

Depending on the source (and limited information is out there), the recovery is 10-18 months. If it is in that 10-11 month range, it ties pretty closely to getting the surgery in May to be ready for the start of the playoffs.

 

[NateTheGreat]

A good player still finds a way to be impactful positively. If the Avs can only be good with one line on the ice, that is a very significant problem.

Agreed. Two things can be true. Good players have positive impacts on the players around them and the Avs can do more to help Bo by surrounding him with other good players who would in turn have a positive impact on him.

I’m encouraged by his play recently simply because it looks like he’s playing on instinct rather than thinking about every decision he made like he was earlier in the season. While this will lead to erratic play, it’s necessary for him to play thru this with the hope that the game slows down for him and he finds that consistency. If he played like he was earlier in the year, most of his potential would be erased from his game and he’d just become a guy out there.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The Arizona trade that's going to happen is Rants-RyJo for Keller-Crouse. It has been written and is just sitting on @Pierce Hawthorne 's desk waiting for approval.

It's true:

This has been on my desk for a week. I just have to circle yes and then send it back to Bill.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[henchman21]

Agreed. Two things can be true. Good players have positive impacts on the players around them and the Avs can do more to help Bo by surrounding him with other good players who would in turn have a positive impact on him.

I’m encouraged by his play recently simply because it looks like he’s playing on instinct rather than thinking about every decision he made like he was earlier in the season. While this will lead to erratic play, it’s necessary for him to play thru this with the hope that the game slows down for him and he finds that consistency. If he played like he was earlier in the year, most of his potential would be erased from his game and he’d just become a guy out there.

And he is getting some of that time... just my opinion, but Byram should have better than the worst xGF% on the defense since the all star break if he was having a significant positive impact.

Yeah is is playing caution to the wind, and it is creating a bit more offense... it is also causing more chances against. There in lies my problem... he needs to find a balance to increase his offensive impact without being a liability defensively.

 

[Miri]

The package that was discussed between both teams' fans was Mikko for Cozens, Ostlund and their 2024 1st (currently 8th overall).

I have no doubt in my mind that Cozens would be 65-70 pts 2C on the Avs. This is just a down year. You use that down year to get better pieces in the deal like their 1st and Ostlund. Cozens is a very good fit for Bednar's system. Mitts would be also if you get him istead of Cozens.

You can draft a very good player at 8th overall. Then you can trade our own 1st + Ostlund/Ritchie/Guly/Behrens to get a very good top-6 W or whatever hole we need to fill. Trading Mikko opens up a lot of possibilities. The aim with doing a trade like that is to better construct the team. With Mikko at 13M we will be a one-line team because it will be very hard to have proper depth. One major injury to Mack or Mikko and that team will probably be out of the playoffs. With all top players healthy (and that is wishful thinking) that team could still be a contender but I have no doubt in my mind that they wouldn't be a strong one.

Obviously the goal here is to get rid of Ryjo's contract and the sooner the better.

I barely mentioned Landy. I am not counting on him for next season yet. We need to see how he does when he comes back first.

Well, i understand your position, but lets just say i am not willing to gamble on your belief Cozens is definitely all that. I would not be surprised if he is, but i need to see more, before swapping him for premier player like Mikko.

Ostlund and 8th pick, thats pretty much the same, even worse, as they are even bigger "mystery boxes" than Cozens. Somehow you think they are surely gonna pan out, and i dont blame you, they are exciting, but history teaches us, that rarely happens.

Just dont go any further than our own trades of O´Reilly and Duchene, at times so heavily celebrated as massive Sakic´s wins and clear display of his GM acumen. Now, he certainly did well, as GM, building the cup winning team, but not because of these particular trades. After all, where are Zadorov and Grigorenko? Where is Bowers? Girard is here, but if there was one player who was on trade block by this community for past couple of years and the favourite scapegoat, it was him. Byram, as well, to lesser extent. And that one we ran into in that trade by sheer dumb luck, as nobody expected Ottawa to disintegrate what felt like one season into their Cup run.

All in all, we needed defense, had too many quality forwards, and in O´Moneys case it was about money, but only a fool would think, in retrospect, we won those trades. Even the players, who were still here, werent integral to our Cup run. But somehow, Cozens, Ostlund and 1st round pick are guaranteed to be a massive hit? Let me have my doubts.

Regarding Landy, if he is not coming next year, get rid. If we are wasting our window, its cause of his situation. It would be him, who would be pretty much functioning as second line C, if he was available, so if he cant do that for foreseeable future, its time to part ways and replace HIM. Not get rid of Mikko, then find out Landy is either shite after his surgery, or no go at all, and lose 2 star players in one go, hoping the return for Mikko might work out.

Mikko is not going to get 13.

 

[AvalancheSpeedsters]

Disagree...he's still got that majestic flow

But it isn’t even…..I’ll show myself out
This little pearl is sort of my jam

 

[JLo217]

You know, every day off feels like a good day to just get a dam deal done lol... I really hate waiting til deadline day

 

[Ararana]

Thomas Harley - 22 year old defenseman just scratching the surface of his potential this year.

Bowen Byram - 22 year old defenseman getting to the end of his rope to show his potential in this league.

Trade him for another 3C immediately!

 

[Avs9296]

Depending on the source (and limited information is out there), the recovery is 10-18 months. If it is in that 10-11 month range, it ties pretty closely to getting the surgery in May to be ready for the start of the playoffs.

So it is your opinion they purposely put off the surgery so he could be out all regular season?

 

[henchman21]

So it is your opinion they purposely put off the surgery so he could be out all regular season?

More that they didn't rush the surgery so they could coincide with the end of the regular season. Landy could have had this surgery last March/April and been back (in theory) around now. There were discussions about this specific surgery in that timeframe.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Thomas Harley - 22 year old defenseman just scratching the surface of his potential this year.

Bowen Byram - 22 year old defenseman getting to the end of his rope to show his potential in this league.

It is interesting that so many people can't understand the important value of trends in a player at that age.


At 22, players should be rounding into form and this is when the peaks and valleys in their play start to flatten out and they more consistently start to show the level of play they're capable of.


With Harley, he is doing exactly that. Trending upwards with more consistent high end play.

While Byram is on the opposite end of the spectrum. Trending downwards with more consistently bad play.


But as Avs fans it's important to make sure the context of the direction these two guys are heading in is left out of the equation, right?

 

[NateTheGreat]

And he is getting some of that time... just my opinion, but Byram should have better than the worst xGF% on the defense since the all star break if he was having a significant positive impact.

Yeah is is playing caution to the wind, and it is creating a bit more offense... it is also causing more chances against. There in lies my problem... he needs to find a balance to increase his offensive impact without being a liability defensively.

You’re asking him to increase offensive impact when he plays with our only offense driving line ~20% of his ice time at 5v5. Defensively, he’s usually the one who has to break the cycle when they’re getting hemmed in cause lord knows JJ or RyJo ain’t beating anyone to the puck.

It’s no secret that the Avs lack offensive depth and have a huge need for a 2C. Those problems don’t (directly) affect the top guys, they affect everyone else.

 

[The Abusement Park]

So it is your opinion they purposely put off the surgery so he could be out all regular season?

I mean would be it that surprising for the Avs to time the surgery for Landy to get back in time for playoffs?

 

[Avs9296]

More that they didn't rush the surgery so they could coincide with the end of the regular season. Landy could have had this surgery last March/April and been back (in theory) around now. There were discussions about this specific surgery in that timeframe.

If they waited an extra month or 2 for the surgery I don't know and neither do any of us. But if they did they didn't do it for LTIR purposes. They didn't need to. Landy was already out a full year and he could easily say he was still rehabbing or getting back into playing condition if he miraculously was healed a month before the regular season ended.

You are trying to compare it to what teams like Vegas are doing and it's just not the same. It's a different situation then Mark Stone who routinely plays the whole year up until near the trade deadline and then LTIRs it until the playoffs and then plays every game in the playoffs (and plays well too).

 

[henchman21]

You’re asking him to increase offensive impact when he plays with our only offense driving line ~20% of his ice time at 5v5. Defensively, he’s usually the one who has to break the cycle when they’re getting hemmed in cause lord knows JJ or RyJo ain’t beating anyone to the puck.

It’s no secret that the Avs lack offensive depth and have a huge need for a 2C. Those problems don’t (directly) affect the top guys, they affect everyone else.

Then why is he the very bottom of the pack, of all defensemen in this stat? Outside Makar/Toews, the other guys have the same usage issue.

 

[NateTheGreat]

It is interesting that so many people can't understand the important value of trends in a player at that age.


At 22, players should be rounding into form and this is when the peaks and valleys in their play start to flatten out and they more consistently start to show the level of play they're capable of.


With Harley, he is doing exactly that. Trending upwards with more consistent high end play.

While Byram is on the opposite end of the spectrum. Trending downwards with more consistently bad play.


But as Avs fans it's important to make sure the context of the direction these two guys are heading in is left out of the equation, right?

It’s interesting that so many people can’t understand the important value of continuous development in a player that age.

Disregarding Bo’s concussion issues as if he’s still able to hone his skills while being away from the team for head trauma.

You can’t rehab from a concussion, you can’t work through it. I’m not even talking about missing games I’m talking about not even being on the ice, in meetings or watching video.

For some reason, people treat Bo’s head injury the same as someone who misses time with an upper or lower body injury that has no neurological effect.

 

[henchman21]

If they waited an extra month or 2 for the surgery I don't know and neither do any of us. But if they did they didn't do it for LTIR purposes. They didn't need to. Landy was already out a full year and he could easily say he was still rehabbing or getting back into playing condition if he miraculously was healed a month before the regular season ended.

You are trying to compare it to what teams like Vegas are doing and it's just not the same.

If they casually waited 6-8 weeks to ensure that he'd be out through the whole regular season. It's the same things as Kuch and Stone last year.

 

[Avs9296]

I mean would be it that surprising for the Avs to time the surgery for Landy to get back in time for playoffs?

I feel like if they were really timing it they would have done the surgery earlier and given him more "recovery" time and still not activate him before the playoffs start. Who would bat an eye at a guy needed another few weeks to heal after being gone for 2 years. No one.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The Landeskog timeline is pretty clearly intentional.


Last year at this point in time, they were still hopeful that the surgery wouldn't be required and that he could return for the playoffs last season. IIRC it wasn't until after the deadline when it was announced that Landy would miss the rest of the year, playoffs included.

At that point they definitely pivoted to this surgery and immediately started looking at the timeline for when he could get the surgery done, miss the regular season, and come back in the playoffs. It's what enabled them to so confidently spend all of Landy's $7M in LTIR space this summer.

They knew exactly what they were doing. They're playing the same game as all the other contenders around the league.

Quite frankly I'm happy they're doing it. Means we aren't sitting on some significant disadvantage because of silly, soft moral standards.

 

[lionsDen]

Was referring to your obsession with what others think and this need to confront it.

Thanks for your interpretation of the last 4-5 games of Byram.

Ironic AF

 

[Avs9296]

If they casually waited 6-8 weeks to ensure that he'd be out through the whole regular season. It's the same things as Kuch and Stone last year.

It wouldn't really be casually waiting. It's an experimental surgery (as far as NHLers go) that has a HUGE recovery timeline 12-18 months. It's really not the same at all as Stone who starts every year up until around now, goes out for the last couple months and comes back before the playoffs again.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It’s interesting that so many people can’t understand the important value of continuous development in a player that age.

Disregarding Bo’s concussion issues as if he’s still able to hone his skills while being away from the team for head trauma.

You can’t rehab from a concussion, you can’t work through it. I’m not even talking about missing games I’m talking about not even being on the ice, in meetings or watching video.

For some reason, people treat Bo’s head injury the same as someone who misses time with an upper or lower body injury that has no neurological effect.

Who's disregarding his injuries... If anything, the injuries have likely further played a part in why he ultimately won't live up to expectations.


His injuries absolutely do not change the fact he has flat out regressed, and regressed a lot, over the last two years. From his peak in the cup finals where the dude was basically playing like a #1/2D to where he is now struggling to make.an impact as a Top 4 guys... That regression isn't concussion related.