Rumor: 23-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part Trois: The Road to the Deadline

[henchman21]

I feel like if they were really timing it they would have done the surgery earlier and given him more "recovery" time and still not activate him before the playoffs start. Who would bat an eye at a guy needed another few weeks to heal after being gone for 2 years. No one.

The NHL requires documentation for every one of these instances and talks with the doctors that performed the operations (or are overseeing the recovery) and they check that with their own doctors. You can argue that they let a lot slide and I'd agree with that... but if a doctor said 10 months and Landy is fine on March 1 to return, the NHL would take their word.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

More that they didn't rush the surgery so they could coincide with the end of the regular season. Landy could have had this surgery last March/April and been back (in theory) around now. There were discussions about this specific surgery in that timeframe.

IIRC Landy was still skating by the end of March trying to make a come back for the playoffs last season so the earliest he could get the surgery was probably early April.
Not that I disagree they waited until May to make sure he wouldn't be back before the playoffs but with such a large span for recovery (11-18 months) it would have been quite easy for them to do it in early April and extend his recovery to 12-12.5 months and still not raising any flag with the league. It could just be that he couldn't be booked until May...who knows?

Obviously the team is playing the LTIR game as well to a certain degree but IMO it is not even close to some of those other teams. Regardless though....it is not illegal so it is what it is nowadays in the NHL. All teams will try to use it at one point or another.

 

[henchman21]

It wouldn't really be casually waiting. It's an experimental surgery (as far as NHLers go) that has a HUGE recovery timeline 12-18 months. It's really not the same at all as Stone who starts every year up until around now, goes out for the last couple months and comes back before the playoffs again.

The stated recovery is 10-18 months depending on the source... and the doctor who performed it is a guy that states 10-14.

 

[NateTheGreat]

Then why is he the very bottom of the pack, of all defensemen in this stat? Outside Makar/Toews, the other guys have the same usage issue.

Bo - GF% 52.44
G - GF% 47.83

 

[Avs9296]

The NHL requires documentation for every one of these instances and talks with the doctors that performed the operations (or are overseeing the recovery) and they check that with their own doctors. You can argue that they let a lot slide and I'd agree with that... but if a doctor said 10 months and Landy is fine on March 1 to return, the NHL would take their word.

Oh ya the NHL is really on top of things like this....hahaha come on.

 

[Hasbro]

Dach was gone by our pick. If you look at the draft thread for 2019 I wanted to take Cozens at 4. His skating/defensive ability/physicality would have been a perfect fit for this team at 2C.

And there was loads of what could have been about Dach. Cozens was a case of this board seeing 6'4" and going from there. The same kind of scouting that had HFAvs all over Logan Brown. Nobody in the scouting world questioned taking Byram and Cozen would have been considered a reach.

 

[Avs9296]

The stated recovery is 10-18 months depending on the source... and the doctor who performed it is a guy that states 10-14.

Ok? Whats your point?

 

[henchman21]

Bo - GF% 52.44
G - GF% 47.83

xGF%... not GF%. Naturally GF% is a production based stat where bounces and random variance can have a large impact, especially in small samples. Which has been my point, his quick production has skewed the idea of how he is actually playing.

 

[Avs9296]

The NHL requires documentation for every one of these instances and talks with the doctors that performed the operations (or are overseeing the recovery) and they check that with their own doctors. You can argue that they let a lot slide and I'd agree with that... but if a doctor said 10 months and Landy is fine on March 1 to return, the NHL would take their word.

Hopefully the NHL uses the same doc they use for Mark Stone. What was his name again?

Dr. Nick?

 

[NateTheGreat]

Who's disregarding his injuries... If anything, the injuries have likely further played a part in why he ultimately won't live up to expectations.


His injuries absolutely do not change the fact he has flat out regressed, and regressed a lot, over the last two years. From his peak in the cup finals where the dude was basically playing like a #1/2D to where he is now struggling to make.an impact as a Top 4 guys... That regression isn't concussion related.

Not once did I say he hasn’t regressed from his playoffs during the cup run.

To say that his regression or lack of progression isn’t concussion related which includes the lack of continuity in his development is quite literally disregarding his injuries. Not all of it can be attributed to that, but it certainly plays a part.

 

[Pokecheque]

It wouldn't really be casually waiting. It's an experimental surgery (as far as NHLers go) that has a HUGE recovery timeline 12-18 months. It's really not the same at all as Stone who starts every year up until around now, goes out for the last couple months and comes back before the playoffs again.

You really don't think they're messing with us about his lacerated spleen, do you?

Also, Stone has some very serious back issues, everyone knows this. And again, I point to the time the Golem Knights forced him back in when he clearly wasn't ready because they were danger of missing the playoffs. He wasn't effective, and they missed. THAT time their attempts to milk the LTIR Cow backfired spectacularly.

This isn't the same IMO as Hossa's very convenient equipment allergy and nonsense like that.

 

[henchman21]

Ok? Whats your point?

That they got the surgery on the timeline stated by the doctor to have Landy try to return for the playoffs. With how the doctor feels it will go and his report to the NHL on the timeline, it falls directly at the end of the regular season on purpose. The Avs have been very clear in their wording for a reason.

 

[Pokecheque]

The last 32 Thoughts pod covered LTIR stuff briefly near the end. According to Friedman, the league monitors these things a lot more closely than they used to. He went on to say the league really scrutinized the Habs when they moved Shea Weber to Robidas Island, the league apparently forced him to see doctors to confirm the diagnosis.

 

[nammerus]

Bo - GF% 52.44
G - GF% 47.83

He's barely a top 4 dman now.

And this isn't a new trend. He was middling at best last year as well.

He's living off a 5-10 game sample from the PO's 2 years ago.

 

[NateTheGreat]

xGF%... not GF%. Naturally GF% is a production based stat where bounces and random variance can have a large impact, especially in small samples. Which has been my point, his quick production has skewed the idea of how he is actually playing.

I’m aware, just thought I’d point it out

You can have your takeaways from the stats, I’ll have mine.

 

[The Abusement Park]

And there was loads of what could have been about Dach. Cozens was a case of this board seeing 6'4" and going from there. The same kind of scouting that had HFAvs all over Logan Brown. Nobody in the scouting world questioned taking Byram and Cozen would have been considered a reach.

Again… it would not have been a reach…

 

[henchman21]

I’m aware, just thought I’d point out it out

You can have your takeaways from the stats, I’ll have mine.

Yeah feel free. It is just right back to my original point, those 6 points in 3 games (and couple other in Feb) is what is being based on as improvement in Byram's case.... not his overall play.

 

[NateTheGreat]

Yeah feel free. It is just right back to my original point, those 6 points in 3 games (and couple other in Feb) is what is being based on as improvement in Byram's case.... not his overall play.

But not G’s 4 points in 2 games against MTL and OTT correct?(5pts in 3 games with the one against TOR).

 

[missionAvs]

Thomas Harley - 22 year old defenseman just scratching the surface of his potential this year.

Bowen Byram - 22 year old defenseman getting to the end of his rope to show his potential in this league.

I'm glad you're begining to understand how this works. Byram is washed and on the downswing of his career. He'd fit in perfectly on the Pens.

 

[twostroke2023]

I’m still not convinced that Landeskog will ever be back in any meaningful capacity. I don’t doubt he will play, but if I had to guess it’ll likely be more of a moral support than anything. Just having him on the bench.

I wouldn’t be shocked personally if he does play in a shift/game or two in the playoffs and then get LTIR’d for the rest of his career.

Of course this is totally personal speculation with absolutely no inside info and I could end up being completely wrong, it just doesn’t seem like the severity of the injury, combined with the missing 2 full years combined with his age that we will ever see him back in full capacity.

 

[henchman21]

But not G’s 4 points in 2 games against MTL and OTT correct?

What I have been stating is since the All Star break, where the uptick has been talked about in Byrams play. Those games were prior to the All Star break and wouldn't be included.

G's production is never that great, but his is limited quite a bit by role. G and Manson get the toughest minutes and role on a consistent basis. They are they are shutdown and transition the puck. Not provide offense. If we want to chat about a defensemen who's role on the team limits offensive impact, it is G.

 

[twostroke2023]

I say trade byram now. I get he had a great finals combined with a lot of potential, but he likely still has value around the league and I’d rather see him traded as a potential good dman than a reclamation project down the road for peanuts.

I have no doubt he has the ability to turn it around in his career. I just don’t see it being in Colorado. I watched him in the WHL finals and loved that player. But the guy I see now isn’t that guy anymore.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

More confirmation that MAF isn't getting traded

 

[NateTheGreat]

What I have been stating is since the All Star break, where the uptick has been talked about in Byrams play. Those games were prior to the All Star break and wouldn't be included.

G's production is never that great, but his is limited quite a bit by role. G and Manson get the toughest minutes and role on a consistent basis. They are they are shutdown and transition the puck. Not provide offense. If we want to chat about a defensemen who's role on the team limits offensive impact, it is G.

So the expectation for Bo is to produce a positive impact offensively without giving up anything defensively but G is limited to playing one way. I see where the problem lies now.

 

[henchman21]

So the expectation for Bo is to produce a positive impact offensively without giving up anything defensively but G is limited to playing one way. I see where the problem lies now.

I'm not saying that at all... I'm saying if you look at roles, Byram gets a lot more advantageous usage compared to Girard.