Rumor: 23-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part Trois: The Road to the Deadline

[AllAboutAvs]

You only have to look at the 2 minutes shift Ryjo's line where stuck on the ice to see how much of a negative effect he has on the team. After Ryjo is on the ice for 30 secs (that is generous) it basically becomes a 5-on-4 because Ryjo is dead tired and he cannot do anything anymore. He becomes completely useless. We were damn lucky they didn't score on that shift.

An average 2C would at least provide appropriate defense and help in taking possession of the puck or even better pressure in the offensive zone if on the attack.

 

[Ararana]

I don't know what a legitimate 2C means.

I simply don't have the effort anymore... Have a great day, friend.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I don't know what a legitimate 2C means. That's pretty subjective. As is my use of star 2C. I should have continued saying a high end 2C.

If you're saying they can win with someone like Jenner or even Henrique, then I agree.

However, most of the time when people cite Kadri at 2C as the only time the Avs won recently, they're saying they need someone better than that, which will cost a lot more to acquire.

That I don't agree with. And it kind of sounds like that's what you mean with the JTC comment.

Well I don’t think Henrique will do. He’s not really a full time C anymore, he’s more that Landy hybrid C from the beginning of Mack’s breakout.

 

[Foppa2118]

I simply don't have the effort anymore... Have a great day, friend.

I mean the rest of that post was pretty fair and gave you an opportunity to clarify what you meant if I was wrong.

I think my read was right originally though, given you don't think they could have won with JTC.

Hope you have a good day as well though.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

i’m to the point now where if i see “2C” in a post i quickly scroll to the next.

So you are not reading anything anymore?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

You only have to look at the 2 minutes shift Ryjo's line where stuck on the ice to see how much of a negative effect he has on the team. After Ryjo is on the ice for 30 secs (that is generous) it basically becomes a 5-on-4 because Ryjo is dead tired and he cannot do anything anymore. He becomes completely useless. We were damn lucky they didn't score on that shift.

An average 2C would at least provide appropriate defense and help in taking possession of the puck or even better pressure in the offensive zone if on the attack.

Forgot about that.


He only played 9:30 total last Night and 2:45 of that came off one single shift.

There's no way CMac doesn't rectify that situation right? The communication between he and Bednar has to be clear at this point that RyJo isn't going to work here and they need someone else.

 

[Foppa2118]

Well I don’t think Henrique will do. He’s not really a full time C anymore, he’s more that Landy hybrid C from the beginning of Mack’s breakout.

Yeah, I haven't really watched the Ducks enough to say. I've heard conflicting information, and some of it is from biased sources, so it's hard for me to tell.

Hybrid C away from the Avs is ok though IMO. As long as they have experience at center, and can play the role here for a few months minimum. I would definitely prefer Jenner over Henrique though for many reasons.

The real issue isn't the kind of 2C they need. The issue is the one they have.

And there's a big disparity between the one they have and an average 2C that can skate well enough, and play the way Bednar wants, for him to trust him to play the actual 2C role.

 

[henchman21]

Well I don’t think Henrique will do. He’s not really a full time C anymore, he’s more that Landy hybrid C from the beginning of Mack’s breakout.

I don't think people get this... the last time Henrique was a full time center, Covid wasn't a thing. He takes some faceoffs and does a lot of defensive coverage things when with the top 6 guys. For about 1/3 of the season he was the pure center between Jones and Silfverberg. That line was a disaster offensively (but very good defensively). The bulk of his scoring has been on the wing with Carlsson and Terry... where he's doing the Landy thing.

He's a pure spot duty guy at center and hasn't stuck there in years because he can't handle the high workload while providing a 2 way game. He can be a good 3rd line guy, you just can't expect much offensively. Or he can be a guy who mainly plays wing but helps out weak defensive center in the top 6.

 

[BobRossColton]

What potential 2C that we've discussed can adapt to bednars system the quickest?

 

[sethro109]

I mean the rest of that post was pretty fair and gave you an opportunity to clarify what you meant if I was wrong.

I think my read was right originally though, given you don't think they could have won with JTC.

Hope you have a good day as well though.

We absolutely need someone better than Compher for the playoffs at 2C. Compher has been trash in the playoffs since 2021.

Look at these playoff numbers the past 3 years. That's not good enough. Even for our cup run, he only had 8 points in 20 games. Only 1 in the finals vs Tampa. He might be barely passable as a regular season 2C, but he disappears in the playoffs. He just can't create enough offense when it actually matters.

 

[henchman21]

What potential 2C that we've discussed can adapt to bednars system the quickest?

Jenner or Wennberg. Jenner is pretty plug and play into many systems. Wennberg played in Bednar's prior and was in camps where he was running the show.

 

[John Mandalorian]

i’m to the point now where if i see “2C” in a post i quickly scroll to the next.

Was hoping to find a setting where i can hear this every time someone says "2C".

 

[Foppa2118]

We absolutely need someone better than Compher for the playoffs at 2C. Compher has been trash in the playoffs since 2021.
View attachment 819685
Look at these playoff numbers the past 3 years. That's not good enough. Even for our cup run, he only had 8 points in 20 games. Only 1 in the finals vs Tampa. He might be barely passable as a regular season 2C, but he disappears in the playoffs. He just can't create enough offense when it actually matters.

It's too big a hypothetical to say definitively they would have won with JTC at 2C. I've been saying they could have and I stand by that.

In fact, I think everyone would agree, that there is some kind of lineup to surround JTC with, that would have allowed them to win with him at 2C.

I would argue any lineup with a semi healthy MacKinnon, Mikko, Landy, Nichuskin, Lehkonen, Makar, Toews, Byram, Girard, and Manson, that gets solid goaltending, is that lineup.

The problem was they only had a few of those guys as healthy options last year, and George gave up some softies.

That's the problem, even though we often bring up the fact that they didn't have a Kadri level player having an outlier regular season that year.

This year their roster is even better, and hopefully (knock on wood) they don't have the same injury issues in the playoffs. I would have liked to upgrade on JTC last year, I wasn't a fan of him in that spot.

But I still believe, all things being equal, they could have won with JTC there, and could win this year with someone like Jenner, who might be better than JTC, and has a better roster around him.

 

[JLo217]

Jenner or Wennberg. Jenner is pretty plug and play into many systems. Wennberg played in Bednar's prior and was in camps where he was running the show.

Let's get both!

 

[Foppa2118]

Was hoping to find a setting where i can hear this every time someone says "2C".

You'll be deaf about 5 seconds after logging in.

 

[henchman21]

Let's get both!

I don't think I'd be really thrilled with that... lots of assets and I'm not sure either are really capable. Jenner is probably close. Wennberg is a faster RyJo who is even more allergic to shooting the puck. Gathering either or both would likely prevent them from pulling the trigger on a real, long-term solution.

I do expect Wennberg to be the guy. He's got size, skates well enough, can play all situations, more skilled than his numbers suggest, history with the front office and coach, (outside this season) good analytics, plus they aren't tied into him for much money... he checks all the boxes the Avs would want on paper for a cheap acquisition. Which is probably 25 3rd or 26 2nd and a solid prospect. I could see Olausson being their type of guy (they love bigger toolsy players).

 

[sethro109]

It's too big a hypothetical to say definitively they would have won with JTC at 2C. I've been saying they could have and I stand by that.

In fact, I think everyone would agree, that there is some kind of lineup to surround JTC with, that would have allowed them to win with him at 2C.

I would argue any lineup with a semi healthy MacKinnon, Mikko, Landy, Nichuskin, Lehkonen, Makar, Toews, Byram, Girard, and Manson, that gets solid goaltending, is that lineup.

The problem was they only had a few of those guys as healthy options last year, and George gave up some softies.

That's the problem, even though we often bring up the fact that they didn't have a Kadri level player having an outlier regular season that year.

This year their roster is even better, and hopefully (knock on wood) they don't have the same injury issues in the playoffs. I would have liked to upgrade on JTC last year, I wasn't a fan of him in that spot.

But I still believe, all things being equal, they could have won with JTC there, and could win this year with someone like Jenner, who might be better than JTC, and has a better roster around him.

He had close to 23 minutes of ice time through 7 games vs Seattle and only had 1 goal and 2 points. Many of his shifts were offensive zone draws with MacK and Mikko as his wingers, with Makar and Toews on the back end. He's just not good in the playoffs. We need a guy that can actually produce in the playoffs.

 

[dahrougem2]

NBA GMs go all in and say "f*** the draft" routinely. You can do that in the NHL once you have established a great core. Florida does it with their 1sts.

Avs are just a conservative organization.

 

[BobRossColton]

So a TDL of Jenner(1st), dowd+lindgren(1st?)and Walker(1st?)

 

[henchman21]

Also for funzies... Wennberg recently got a goal without taking a shot for the whole game.

Chicago Blackhawks - Seattle Kraken - Jan 24, 2024 | NHL.com

NHL Gamecenter - Chicago Blackhawks vs. Seattle Kraken, Jan 24, 2024 - summary, stats, boxscore, play by play, recap and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Ryjo + a pick for Leblanc with retention?

 

[henchman21]

NBA GMs go all in and say "f*** the draft" routinely. You can do that in the NHL once you have established a great core. Florida does it with their 1sts.

Avs are just a conservative organization.

Yeah Avs are one of the least aggressive organizations on big moves. They take forever to make those. They'll make a million little moves to tweak around the lineup, but anything that involves bigger pieces they are incredibly hesitant to do... and when they do, they go a bit crazy to protect those sorts of moves like re-signing guys they shouldn't be re-signing.

Allvin is living proof that you can be aggressive as a GM and drastically improve teams in short order. Panthers are a model of a team going for it. Tampa is a team that realized their window was finite and pushed the chips to the middle (after being conservative for years). I'd hope the Avs successes and failures over the years has taught management a thing or two. We will see over the course of the next few weeks.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yeah, I haven't really watched the Ducks enough to say. I've heard conflicting information, and some of it is from biased sources, so it's hard for me to tell.

Hybrid C away from the Avs is ok though IMO. As long as they have experience at center, and can play the role here for a few months minimum. I would definitely prefer Jenner over Henrique though for many reasons.

The real issue isn't the kind of 2C they need. The issue is the one they have.

And there's a big disparity between the one they have and an average 2C that can skate well enough, and play the way Bednar wants, for him to trust him to play the actual 2C role.

I mean if they bring in Henrique to be the actual 2C the Avs won’t be contending for a cup straight up. He just isn’t capable of filling that role anymore hence why he doesn’t play there anymore. If he can’t do that on a rebuilding team he certainly won’t on a contending one.

He’s still a decent and could actually make a difference on the wing for us, but thats not remotely a need at all.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

So a TDL of Jenner(1st), dowd+lindgren(1st?)and Walker(1st?)

I  think Jenner would cost more. I wouldnt bother with Walker.


But I'd do the first two deals for sure.


2024 1st + Behrens for Jenner

2025 1st +2026 2nd + RyJo for Dowd(50%) + Lindgren


Lehky - Mack - Mikko
Drouin - Jenner - Nuke
Wood - Colton - LOC
Parise - Dowd - Cogs



With maybe Landy coming back as well. And the great thing about all of that is all 4 Centers would be signed for next year as well and for  less than what we're spending on our Centers right now.

 

[BobRossColton]

Would Buffalo have interest in Mathieu Joseph?
How about RyJo+1st for Joseph?
Then send Joseph+Byram for mittelstadt?