Post-Game Talk: #22 - 11/21/18 | islanders @ RANGERS | 7:00 - MSG 2

[ReggieDunlop68]

Really happy and impressed with DeAngelo, he looks really solid out there in his own zone and need to find him more minutes in the o zone. He’ s figuring out how to defend at his size, the glaring turnovers in his own end have gone away.

Also Namestnikov is becoming a really useful player, he has the skills and skating to play higher in the line up, pp and pk. If we do trade him his value is going way up.

Miss the game?

 

[CasusBelli]

I’m having fun.

Kids are playing well, team is working hard. This team is fun.

Even if the other shoe is gonna drop at some point it’s fun watching a team playing extremely hard.

Haven’t seen it since the Torts years. Feels like ages ago. Thanks AV.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Very long season. I didn't think they COULD tank all along. Not the first time we've seen similar runs by Kreider and Zibanejad. If it continues, both SHOULD be All-Stars. It is the first time in a WHILE since we've seen a rookie winger like this Prucha'
s fluky debut) and the fist time I know of a rookie D (I was 3-4 with Leetch) with 14 pts. in 19GP... but I forgot, we hate Pionk...

It's not just the production with the both of them. They are in the process of making this their team. Both are becoming leaders both off and on the ice. Zibanejad is being used in whatever manner Quinn sees fit. Kreider has become the heart and soul of the team. Yes, they are producing in a manner many of us have believed they have the talent to be able to do. But, there's a lot more going on than just production.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Haven’t seen it since the Torts years. Feels like ages ago. Thanks AV.

But they play a more fun brand of hockey than Torts' teams.

 

[bl02]

75 points over/under. was the lock of the year!

 

[Ola]

It's every scenario. Watch em separately...pionks first instinct is...get the puck out. DeAngelo first instinct is, where are my teammates. That's the big difference. When DeAngelo doesn't find anyone he turns it over. When pionk gets the puck out, it's still just a turnover.

DeAngelo the better defenseman in his own zone, and thru the neutral zone. I think pionk has 2 things on DeAngelo, 1, he's a far more likeable player. 2 he's got a much better and more accurate shot.

I think deangelos a better skater, better 1 on 1 defender, better at tying up sticks, better at breaking up passes, better at playing odd man rushes, better at starting the breakout, better at reading when to, and when not to pinch, etc, etc, etc.

I'll be honest, I think DeAngelo is by far our best defenseman right now. I'm not sure I think it's even all that close.

Again, just my 2 cents.

I agree, except for one thing. Pionk's ability to stay with his man -- without the puck -- is very very good. He handles those situations remarkably well. That is why 3-4 NHL coaches have put a ton of trust in him and mostly used him as a shut down D despite him being a midget with offensive skill. Pionk can face very tough situations and still somehow come away controlling his guy somewhat. He is top notch in that regard.

Since that might indicate that Pionk is a good shot preventor and the stats say otherwise many don't buy that observation at all, I have noticed. But obviously that ability is not enough to prevent rubber from going to the net. But it most certainly prevents Pionk getting destroyed completely with a ton of goals being scored against his unit when he is on the ice against the top talent the top teams have to offer.

The problem I see in his game is that he takes too much time with the puck. Not only does TDA make really good decisions (mostly) with the puck, his decision making is just tremendously fast. Pionk is the exact opposite. He played a lot of time in College and there it obviously worked well to have that patience and poise with the puck, it worked in the NHL really well 10-15 years ago too. Now so much of the game offensively is about getting to the other team before they can set up.

I see TDA spurt to a lose puck and make a good pass to a blade up ice in no time. OTOH I see Pionk skating to a lose puck in the corner, turning a forchecker inside out 3 times then skating 10 feets up ice with the puck before handing it over to someone else or lifting it into an area. As a result Pionk's unit face a set defense when they have the puck and are heading out of their end after he initiated a play, whereas TDA's unit will have a step on the guys they face.

And its also in this context I don't quite get the negativity towards Pionk's ability to improve his game, at least not with good coaching. First of all, the passing game for a D is very much about chemistry (even if TDA seem to be an exception from that rule). All forwards differs a bit, how do you move, where do you want the puck, when do you want it. When a good big minutes D changes team it -- as far as I am aware -- always takes more time than you expect for the D to settle in. He needs to get to know his forwards, I think this chemistry thing is bigger between Ds and forwards than Centers and Wings which often are discussed. Passing the puck to a shooter is much more standardized play than a D passing a puck to a winger. I can think of 10 examples of big name Ds needing a lot of time to settle, with Karlsson being the most recent in SJ. Second of all, speed and getting used to the tempo is so often a big factor for all young players. And especially for Pionk in this regard too. Do I think there is a reason to believe that a young PMDs ability to move the puck up ice in the NHL will improve after getting 2-3 years in the league? For sure. Then you can of course discuss and speculate on how much it will improve and what the end result will be.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Haven’t seen it since the Torts years. Feels like ages ago. Thanks AV.

ok back to my dementia question at the near top of this page, we went to the finals in 2014 right?

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I agree, except for one thing. Pionk's ability to stay with his man -- without the puck -- is very very good. He handles those situations remarkably well. That is why 3-4 NHL coaches have put a ton of trust in him and mostly used him as a shut down D despite him being a midget with offensive skill. Pionk can face very tough situations and still somehow come away controlling his guy somewhat. He is top notch in that regard.

Since that might indicate that Pionk is a good shot preventor and the stats say otherwise many don't buy that observation at all, I have noticed. But obviously that ability is not enough to prevent rubber from going to the net. But it most certainly prevents Pionk getting destroyed completely with a ton of goals being scored against his unit when he is on the ice against the top talent the top teams have to offer.

The problem I see in his game is that he takes too much time with the puck. Not only does TDA make really good decisions (mostly) with the puck, his decision making is just tremendously fast. Pionk is the exact opposite. He played a lot of time in College and there it obviously worked well to have that patience and poise with the puck, it worked in the NHL really well 10-15 years ago too. Now so much of the game offensively is about getting to the other team before they can set up.

I see TDA spurt to a lose puck and make a good pass to a blade up ice in no time. OTOH I see Pionk skating to a lose puck in the corner, turning a forchecker inside out 3 times then skating 10 feets up ice with the puck before handing it over to someone else or lifting it into an area. As a result Pionk's unit face a set defense when they have the puck and are heading out of their end after he initiated a play, whereas TDA's unit will have a step on the guys they face.

And its also in this context I don't quite get the negativity towards Pionk's ability to improve his game, at least not with good coaching. First of all, the passing game for a D is very much about chemistry (even if TDA seem to be an exception from that rule). All forwards differs a bit, how do you move, where do you want the puck, when do you want it. When a good big minutes D changes team it -- as far as I am aware -- always takes more time than you expect for the D to settle in. He needs to get to know his forwards, I think this chemistry thing is bigger between Ds and forwards than Centers and Wings which often are discussed. Passing the puck to a shooter is much more standardized play than a D passing a puck to a winger. I can think of 10 examples of big name Ds needing a lot of time to settle, with Karlsson being the most recent in SJ. Second of all, speed and getting used to the tempo is so often a big factor for all young players. And especially for Pionk in this regard too. Do I think there is a reason to believe that a young PMDs ability to move the puck up ice in the NHL will improve after getting 2-3 years in the league? For sure. Then you can of course discuss and speculate on how much it will improve and what the end result will be.

In other words, if a team were to carry 6 defensemen, he would be one of the 6 who was better defensively than offensively, and part of a unit that worked in some form of synergy where some players did something well while others did different things well?

 

[bl02]

ok back to my dementia question at the near top of this page, we went to the finals in 2014 right?

and 2015 should have as well if it weren't for having a third of the team walking wounded and Zucc out. Did some people block these two amazing years out where we won pretty much every game?

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

and 2015 should have as well if it weren't for having a third of the team walking wounded and Zucc out. Did some people block these two amazing years out where we won pretty much every game?

It’s starting to get a little Orwellian.

 

[MyLoveIsBlue]

Cody McLeod - fractured hand. Is Belesky ready?

 

[CasusBelli]

But they play a more fun brand of hockey than Torts' teams.

True that

 

[CasusBelli]

ok back to my dementia question at the near top of this page, we went to the finals in 2014 right?

We had a supremely talented team with Hank in his prime. It’s no coincidence that the preceding coach was all about hard work, a quality that deteriorated quickly as the AV era progressed.

 

[Vitto79]

So call up Belesky to hang out w McLeod out?

Zuc in bumps Fast down ?

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

We had a supremely talented team with Hank in his prime. It’s no coincidence that the preceding coach was all about hard work, a quality that deteriorated quickly as the AV era progressed.

Again correct me if I suffered an aneurysm last night, but wasn't the core of that team at its peak?

For example, they were getting old injured and THAT was the year

Also, again keep in mind spontaneous neural necrosis, but the team this year is almost entirely new from last year let alone 2014, and the coach we have now is in his first year in the NHL?

 

[bl02]

Cody McLeod - fractured hand. Is Belesky ready?

I think he scored two goals in the last pack game. Been saying for a while hope he gets call up but coach really likes Mcleod.

 

[CasusBelli]

Again correct me if I suffered an aneurysm last night, but wasn't the core of that team at its peak?

For example, they were getting old injured and THAT was the year

Also, again keep in mind spontaneous neural necrosis, but the team this year is almost entirely new from last year let alone 2014, and the coach we have now is in his first year in the NHL?

There’s no need for sarcasm mate.

Yes, the core was at its peak, but the effort just wasn’t there afterward. We started this year with poor results and an unimpressive roster — but the effort and intensity were indisputable. I just didn’t see that under AV.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

There’s no need for sarcasm mate.

Yes, the core was at its peak, but the effort just wasn’t there afterward. We started this year with poor results and an unimpressive roster — but the effort and intensity were indisputable. I just didn’t see that under AV.

I’m being sarcastic because I don’t see how you can’t remember those teams

 

[CasusBelli]

I’m being sarcastic because I don’t see how you can’t remember those teams

I remember them perfectly.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I remember them perfectly.

Help!!!!

 

[CasusBelli]

Help!!!!

Let’s just agree to disagree this time. We’ll have plenty of opportunities to reverse this mishap.

 

[RangerLifer]

Wasn't pleased how Boychuk wasn't penalized for his attempt to injure on Names. I saw it with all his intent before any replay, and the replay only solidified it. That was a bush league play.

Bush league play by a Bush league team.

What a win. Thank GOD we finally did it.

 

[egelband]

Kudos to @eco's bones for being the only poster here who picked ADA in tonight’s poll. I wanted to as well, but I decided on Georgy/Chytil/Shatty instead..

He should have more votes, imo. But it’s tough to do so when so many other players played a great game tonight.

The kid makes those smart little plays decisively. I don’t think anyone on this team has his vision. He made some really well timed defensive plays too.

He’s been awesome. I REALLY like having not only 1, but 3 RHD that can move puck and create plays from the blue line. Brings an element to this team that’s unique.

Also want to see more love for Vlad. He has gone from zero to sixty in no time. He has been so much more involved since getting benched. I had no interest in him but now, I’m seeing why he was a first liner with Tampa. Kudos!

 

[RangerLifer]

That Hayes goal was ****ing filthy

A thing of beauty. OMG!!

 

[RangerLifer]

Has nothing to do with dumping the puck, he just loses the puck. He's easily knocked off of it and he has not been good protecting it and/or stick handling. Even when we have the zone, he flubs it.

Another reason he's not ready for center

He's gotta learn to protect it with his ass like Jagr used to do.