Toggle sidebar

Post-Game Talk: #22 - 11/21/18 | islanders @ RANGERS | 7:00 - MSG 2

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.

Three stars

  • Total voters
    121
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
If we’re in first place or fighting for it at the TDL we’re still trading Zucc and likely Hayes, but I’m a little hesitant to pull the trigger on Hayes. Thing is he’s going to price himself out of here and we can’t let him walk for nothing when our brightest days are seemingly ahead of us. But management might see it as ‘2 in the hand is worth 1 in the bush’, if we’re playoff bound this year, we can worry about next year, next year. And I wouldn’t blame them. Good decisions to have to make.
 
romba said:
If we’re in first place or fighting for it at the TDL we’re still trading Zucc and likely Hayes, but I’m a little hesitant to pull the trigger on Hayes. Thing is he’s going to price himself out of here and we can’t let him walk for nothing when our brightest days are seemingly ahead of us. But management might see it as ‘2 in the hand is worth 1 in the bush’, if we’re playoff bound this year, we can worry about next year, next year. And I wouldn’t blame them. Good decisions to have to make.
Click to expand...

I like Hayes and but if Chytil, Howden or Andersson cant replace him down the road we have much worse things to worry about. If Hayes were looking for a long term 5 mill contract I'd keep him but I'm sure hes looking for 6-7 a year.
 
YearOfTheCat said:
He's gotta learn to protect it with his ass like Jagr used to do.
Click to expand...
Kreider is a master at it now and Hayes is also effective though not as beastly. Chytil just isn’t strong enough on his skates yet and his upper body needs work as well to play keep away. The PF style game takes quite some time to hone and be effective at. Kreider was 25 and still struggled at maximizing his size and strength when he clearly was usually the biggest and strongest on the ice and had already fully grew into his body.
 
egelband said:
Also want to see more love for Vlad. He has gone from zero to sixty in no time. He has been so much more involved since getting benched. I had no interest in him but now, I’m seeing why he was a first liner with Tampa. Kudos!
Click to expand...

Said it at the start of the year that he obviously wasnt as good as he was in Tampa but he was much better than he was showing at the start. He's worked hard and I'd like to keep him until atleast the next trade deadline.
 
  • Like
Reactions: egelband
For Thanksgiving Quinn and the boys carved up the Isles like some jive turkey
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rongomania
romba said:
Kreider is a master at it now and Hayes is also effective though not as beastly. Chytil just isn’t strong enough on his skates yet and his upper body needs work as well to play keep away. The PF style game takes quite some time to hone and be effective at. Kreider was 25 and still struggled at maximizing his size and strength when he clearly was usually the biggest and strongest on the ice and had already fully grew into his body.
Click to expand...
Kreider dominates below the goal line. Hayes is great at protecting the puck all over the ozone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: belford222
jas said:
I said before the season a lot of things had to go right for this team be successful. And, pretty much all of them have come through so far. Kreider and Zibanejad had to produce like first line players, the kids had to emerge and produce, they had to stay healthy, Georgiev had to prove to be a dependable backup and the team had to respond to Quinn right away. That’s a lot of things that have to go right. So far, so good. It is essential that management does not look at this team the way the fanbase does. They sketched out the plan. They need to follow it. As fun as it’s been so far, do not lose sight of the goal. They expected this to not be a short and easy process. Do not shortcut it. Trade the players that should be traded. Remember the adage that you’re never as good nor as bad as you look. They’re showing they can identify the talent needed to build a winner. Don’t stop.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure Gorton and Co. has a better clarity of the situation than a lot of the fans. Some of us freak out because the ebb of the rebuild is up and they are frustrated that hypothetical Hughes is probably not in the picture. Others are afraid that the FO will change the course and instead of continuing on the long term rebuild path will switch to short term make the playoffs approach.

I don’t think this will be the case. If anything the quicker emergence of kids (especially not as anticipated from Howden) the emergence of a new leadership by example from Zibanejad and Kreider and the buy in from the players into Quinn’s system and coaching style, just reinforces the idea of moving Hayes and Zuke to keep the rebuild momentum.
 
It's so strange to me that everyone is just willing to throw away Hayes. Unless he is bringing back a top 10 pick plus, I would not move him. He is as good as Stepan and shows signs of becoming better, rather than slowing down.

We could always give him a similar deal to Stepan and then move him if one of the kids cements himself and he becomes expendable. He won't be an impossible player to move even if he's making 6mil a year.

People are acting like Howden, Chytil & Andersson are guarantees. Chytil may end up being on the wing and Howden and Andersson are hardly players who will surely get ot Hayes' level.

We are in a really promising spot right now with the emergence of all of these players rapidly coming at the same time. It would be silly to move a center who is a vital part of this team in the hopes a 20 year old will step in and fill his shoes seamlessly..

Moreover, even if we save the cap space on Hayes, who are we using it on? I just don't see anyone on the market that we can realistically get that would make sense to move him to make space for.

Again, I'm not against moving him, but if we get a B+ prospect and middling first round pick, I'll be pissed. We'll be lucky if either of those pieces turns out to be anything remotely close to Hayes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: belford222
ReggieDunlop68 said:
ok back to my dementia question at the near top of this page, we went to the finals in 2014 right?
Click to expand...
Idk why you would act like you haven't seen the counter argument to this a million times. You disagree with the idea that a torts type of team, one that had made the ecf already, won just two more PO games with AV as a passenger thanks to the team being more experienced, better overall and drawing a habs team with no carey price. Fine. I get if you want to disagree but why act like you've never even heard the counter?

Your dementia also forgets that AV turtled away multiple 2 goal leads in that same SCF, then entire games and series against OTT and against multiple other teams. A team that was like 100-1 with a lead in the 3rd was blowing multiple goal leads.

It also forgets that we flat out lost that semi final with AV. St. Louis had his mom die and the team was clearly able to reach another gear due to the inspiration.
He inherited an ecf team. He happened to be there when we beat a price deprived ecf team. He happened to be there for another ecf appearance. He was a passenger. I will ALWAYS lay the blame at his feet for failing to win it all and I've never seen an argument demonstrating what he did to get the team further.

bl02 said:
and 2015 should have as well if it weren't for having a third of the team walking wounded and Zucc out. Did some people block these two amazing years out where we won pretty much every game?
Click to expand...

See above

People stopped blindly assuming it was AV and are realizing it was the talent on the team
 
Last edited:
Lone Ranger said:
LOL, I think Jagr holds his own with J-Lo and Kim K; and neither of them had the quick release on the wrist shot.
Click to expand...
Yeah but Jagr was never a great twerker during his career. That's one weakness when you put him up with the greats like J.Lo and Kim K.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lone Ranger
shinchanuuhh said:
Idk why you would act like you haven't seen the counter argument to this a million times. You disagree with the idea that a torts type of team, one that had made the ecf already, won just two more PO games with AV as a passenger thanks to the team being more experienced, better overall and drawing a habs team with no carry price. Fine. I get if you want to disagree but why act like you've never even heard the counter?

Your dementia also forgets that AV turtled away multiple 2 goal leads in that same SCF, then entire games and series against OTT and against multiple other teams. A team that was like 100-1 with a lead in the 3rd was blowing multiple goal leads.

It also forgets that we flat out lost that senior final with AV. St. Louis had his mom die and the team was clearly able to reach another gear due to the inspiration.
He inherited an ecf team. He happened to be there when we beat a price deprived ecf team. He happened to be there for another ecf appearance. He was a passenger. I will ALWAYS lay the blame at his feet for failing to win it all and I've never seen an argument demonstrating what he did to get the team further.



See above

People stopped blindly assuming it was AV and are realizing it was the talent on the team
Click to expand...

All of this is news to me, and no, I don’t think “memento disease” is spreading because of just the one point I was intrigued about today.

The key point before expressing your analysis about that year [I’m aware of your take on that series], I was flummoxed to see the poster mentioned that they were “the most excited they’ve been since Torts...Thanks AV...”


The script just keeps changing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bl02
shinchanuuhh said:
Idk why you would act like you haven't seen the counter argument to this a million times. You disagree with the idea that a torts type of team, one that had made the ecf already, won just two more PO games with AV as a passenger thanks to the team being more experienced, better overall and drawing a habs team with no carry price. Fine. I get if you want to disagree but why act like you've never even heard the counter?

Your dementia also forgets that AV turtled away multiple 2 goal leads in that same SCF, then entire games and series against OTT and against multiple other teams. A team that was like 100-1 with a lead in the 3rd was blowing multiple goal leads.

It also forgets that we flat out lost that senior final with AV. St. Louis had his mom die and the team was clearly able to reach another gear due to the inspiration.
He inherited an ecf team. He happened to be there when we beat a price deprived ecf team. He happened to be there for another ecf appearance. He was a passenger. I will ALWAYS lay the blame at his feet for failing to win it all and I've never seen an argument demonstrating what he did to get the team further.



See above

People stopped blindly assuming it was AV and are realizing it was the talent on the team
Click to expand...

Of course it was the players and the talent but he deserves some credit if he is got ALL the blame when things didn't go well. No one was blindly assuming that it was all AV's doing that the team was so successful. Any decent coach needs talent to make it to the cup finals. I was making mention that we have seen exciting teams since the Torts era which is completely true. 2014 and 2015 were amazing years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ReggieDunlop68
bl02 said:
Of course it was the players and the talent but he deserves some credit if he is got ALL the blame when things didn't go well. No one was blindly assuming that it was all AV's doing that the team was so successful. Any decent coach needs talent to make it to the cup finals. I was making mention that we have seen exciting teams since the Torts era which is completely true. 2014 and 2015 were amazing years.
Click to expand...
I understand the sentiment that he deserves credit. I honestly disagree. I think hes a passenger who only detracted from a ready to go Stanley cup contending team that had already been 2 games from the finals.

I understand disagreement, I acknowledge it sounds unfair but it's what I felt at the time. Everything I saw in future series continued to backup that notion. So it's what I still feel and I have never seen any1 pinpoint what AV did to improve this team
 
shinchanuuhh said:
Then you legit forgot bc we've had this discussion b4.
Click to expand...

The parallel is we didn’t have a legit top 6 that series, so we lost. Instead of many posters just saying “Nash didn’t come
through, and we never had a chance to draft an top flite impact top sixer or better yet a top 3, we were not a true match for The Kings regardless of what micromanagement of the bottom 6, or turtling, or whatever other nonsesne was used to explain something very obvious”

So now more excuses are being used to avoid the obvious.

And again, my main point in this thread wasnt to debate the end game of 2014. I was incredulous to read that the poster had not been “excited” since Torts. Not only was many Tort’s team not even remotely exciting regardless of success, but the 2014 and 2015 team were unbelievably exciting.

The point was AV is not likes now for his percieved inpact on a team that was turning to shit regardless who was at the helm, so now it’s not just “AV wasnt good at the end” it’s just meme answers.


And I see this happening with 90% of the topics.

I don’t give a f*** about AV anymore. You are going way deeper than my point or the flippant point to which I repaonded.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bl02
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom