21/22 Roster Speculation Thread Part VIII

[TehDoak]

he sign players for a former coach and player.

Andersen has played well. Dell was AHL goalie

Sorry, either Adams is the GM or he isn't. You can't blame a huge pile of terrible signings on a coach. The GM is in charge of building the roster. If he's not smart enough to tell a coach "No, these are bad signings", he shouldn't be the GM.

Anderson has played well......in the 8 games he was healthy. And that is the problem. You can't sign a 41 year old goalie without, at a minimum, a NHL starting goalie to split the starts with him. Tokarski is not a NHL starter.

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[Jim Bob]

And please, this is Adams 2nd full season as GM. Sure he's added staff this year, but he had no staff last year, he was ordered to fire them.

Fixed it for you.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

This is such a shitty narrative.

In a winning environment, hating losing makes you a competitor.

In a losing environment, hating losing makes you a malcontent.

The team is singing around the campfire holding hands because there are no expectations on them. They are supposed to be losing games. I'm actually far more concerned that we are propagating the acceptance of losing at an organizational level in order to have a 'good culture'.

To win, you need guys that hate to lose with every fiber of their being. I'm not sure we have that in the room now. You are never going to fix the culture of an org with a sub 70 point team every year. Losing is a cancer that will eat any attempt at having a 'good locker room' from the inside and destroy it.

How is what I said a sh*tty narrative?
Are you saying that Eichel didn’t actually want out? That he just wanted to win?

He requested a trade 2 seasons in a row (we know because Eichel told us so) and likely wanted out even before that (how long had we been hearing whispers/rumors?)

yeah, hating to lose is good. But you also have to be committed to the team that you’re playing for and want to turn things around there.


I also don’t get the same vibes from this current team as you do.
I think they hate to lose too (how many times have we seen Dahlin pissed off after a loss, snap his stick, etc?). I actually see More compete with this team than I did in previous year’s teams despite the huge gap in talent level. They’ve already basically matched last year’s point total 1/2 way through the season. They’re on pace to be about as good as they were the last full season of Eichel yet they’re doing it with a roster that’s MUCh less talented, barely above the cap floor and has about 1000 injuries (what are we on, goalie #5? 6?).

 

[michaelsaas]

he hasn't? Who there has built a winning team. When he has a tough decision, who can Adams lean on that has been in the position before? They've built a good analytics staff, sure. But there isn't anyone who can advise Adams on how to build a team, negotiations, how to deal with players and agents, who has had the experience of being the guy in the chair. No one. And it shows.

And please, this is Adams 2nd full season as GM. Sure he's added staff this year, but it was his own fault he had no staff last year, he fired them.

You are conflating ownership failures with GM failures. Everyone knows where the order to fire staff came from and I haven't heard anything to suggest that KA (nor previous GMs) refuses to have an AGM or POHO brought in).

You are an intelligent poster but you have some heavy biases. Neither us nor KA can help the lack of inexperience he had upon the hire, thus far he has done some good things and bad things like any GM.

I am very pleased with how he has re-staffed the front office and his draft decisions.

I am concerned about some of the contracts he gives out (I feel he overpays on some) and I think not adequately addressing goaltending was a complete failure no matter the excuse.

As an occasional contributor but long-time and daily reader I roll my eyes whenever any one paints a picture as entirely one-sided (I also roll my eyes at the constant recency biases, but that is another topic and not germane. And I love everyone on this forum )

 

[TehDoak]

How is what I said a sh*tty narrative?
Are you saying that Eichel didn’t actually want out? That he just wanted to win?

He requested a trade 2 seasons in a row (we know because Eichel told us so) and likely wanted out even before that (how long had we been hearing whispers/rumors?)

yeah, hating to lose is good. But you also have to be committed to the team that you’re playing for and want to turn things around there.

So a player, after FIVE seasons of missing the playoffs (and not just missing them, missing them by a lot), who is playing for his 3rd head coach and now is sitting in front of his 3rd GM (who has zero GM experience) , who just had a Hart trophy level season, is told "yeah we're going to rebuild again"

At that juncture, he's supposed to be like "Oh great news. More losing? Sign me up!" At what point would a player conclude that ownership doesn't know what they are doing? The hiring of Adams is a pretty logical point to make that conclusion.

I also don’t get the same vibes from this current team as you do.
I think they hate to lose too (how many times have we seen Dahlin pissed off after a loss, snap his stick, etc?). I actually see More compete with this team than I did in previous year’s teams despite the huge gap in talent level. They’ve already basically matched last year’s point total 1/2 way through the season. They’re on pace to be about as good as they were the last full season of Eichel yet they’re doing it with a roster that’s MUCh less talented, barely above the cap floor and has about 1000 injuries (what are we on, goalie #5? 6?).

We only played 56 games last year. Yes, this years team is better than last years. That is an extremely low bar to clear. 30 teams did it last year.

My issue isn't really with on ice team or coaching. They've done well....considering.

The issue is with management and ownership needlessly kneecapping progress by being exceedingly cheap with this years roster.

You are conflating ownership failures with GM failures. Everyone knows where the order to fire staff came from and I haven't heard anything to suggest that KA (nor previous GMs) refuses to have an AGM or POHO brought in).

You are an intelligent poster but you have some heavy biases. Neither us nor KA can help the lack of inexperience he had upon the hire, thus far he has done some good things and bad things like any GM.

I am very pleased with how he has re-staffed the front office and his draft decisions.

I am concerned about some of the contracts he gives out (I feel he overpays on some) and I think not adequately addressing goaltending was a complete failure no matter the excuse.

As an occasional contributor but long-time and daily reader I roll my eyes whenever any one paints a picture as entirely one-sided (I also roll my eyes at the constant recency biases, but that is another topic and not germane. And I love everyone on this forum )

I am conflating the two. Because they are the same.

If Adams is fired today, he isn't hired on anywhere else. Not as a GM, not as an assistant GM, not as a scout. Why? Because he doesn't have the resume or experience.

Adams failings ARE ownerships failings because his sole qualification for GM is loyalty to ownership.

Fans are grading him on some bizarre sabres fandom rose colored glasses. We can't blame him for last season because "well he got the players the coach wanted"

Yes we can. He's the GM. He can tell the coach that's a dumb idea. He sets the roster.

We can't blame him for not addressing any of the major offseason needs because "well it's a rebuilding season"

We can't blame him for the Eichel situation dragging out into November and getting a bad return for a franchise center.

We can blame him for all these things. He's the GM. It's his job to assemble a winning roster. He's failed at doing so twice.

He's got some unearned teflon for a guy with no resume and scores of fans willing to white knight a guy whose first act as a GM was to lay people off during a pandemic.

 

[Chainshot]

I watch Murphy play and I just don't see him as a difference maker.

If he came over to Buffalo, I would expect the same poor metrics while bringing that 4 year contract that he is currently not living up to.

Maybe it is the expectations that went with being the center piece in the Hammer trade and I am jaded, but I honestly do not see the value.

If Adams is contemplating throwing 4.5 million at a #4 D for 4 years, I would much rather see him add a couple more million to bring in a more proven solution that might better mentor Power going forward. That I could see as money well spent. Murphy I see as more of the same "over-priced complimentary band-aid" that the Sabres have been targeting for 10 years with poor results.

Do you see a difference maker in Pysyk? Not that I'm attached to anyone in particular for a possible addition outside of Petry (which has a whole other set of concerns), but they need more guys who allow the other players paired with to move the proverbial needle.

Also, this gives short shrift to Murphy's numbers up to this season and even this year, he's their highest GAR and 2nd highest DGAR on the Hawks using Evolving Hockey's numbers. Similarly, his shot suppression metrics have been good over his career and his xGA is very solid.

 

[Jacob582]

It's his job to assemble a winning roster.

KA job is to do what the owners want him to do. I don't think it was to assemble a winning roster this year.

It may have been to be efficient and economical in building a future good team. He may have an internal salary budget. If the owners wanted to be close to the lower limit, then that makes it hard for him to assemble a winning roster unless he is burning through draft picks.

 

[Chainshot]

Maybe choose targets a little more wisely than Kane, Bogosian, Vesey, Sheary etc. The execution was the issue, not the plan.

The pro scouting during the Botterill era in particular was like it was out of touch with reality.

After the analytics hirings during Adams time, I have a little more confidence in the staff making smarter acquisitions than the previous regimes.

Similarly, the execution of what Murray did fell down because of who he selected, not that he made moves.

There is no possible way they can simply sit around, waiting, and move this team forward in a timely fashion. There is no need to rush, but it is time to start acting like every other team in the league when it comes to trying to make the roster and on-ice product better. And that involves making smart trades.

 

[Uberpecker]

Do you see a difference maker in Pysyk? Not that I'm attached to anyone in particular for a possible addition outside of Petry (which has a whole other set of concerns), but they need more guys who allow the other players paired with to move the proverbial needle.

Also, this gives short shrift to Murphy's numbers up to this season and even this year, he's their highest GAR and 2nd highest DGAR on the Hawks using Evolving Hockey's numbers. Similarly, his shot suppression metrics have been good over his career and his xGA is very solid.

That's the point, though. Do you think Pysyk can play that role, namely for Dahlin? If the answer is yes, then why not just resign him instead of investing assets other than money into a player that might not be decisively better.

The way I see it, going forward we have three puck-movers/potential difference makers in need of a partner that can let them do their thing: Dahlin, Power and Joki. So we need three non-flashy, defensively reliable partners for them: Samuelsson can be one, preferably for Joki due to handedness. Fitzgerald has looked quite decent recently, so let's say he can play that role on a third pairing e.g. with Power, at least during the latter's rookie season.

Now who's the guy for Dahlin? I've seen glimpses from Pysyk, but I want more data.
Committing to a Dahlin-Pysyk pairing for an extended period of time or even most of the rest of the season would therefore be my preferred course of action.

 

[Jim Bob]

Similarly, the execution of what Murray did fell down because of who he selected, not that he made moves.

There is no possible way they can simply sit around, waiting, and move this team forward in a timely fashion. There is no need to rush, but it is time to start acting like every other team in the league when it comes to trying to make the roster and on-ice product better. And that involves making smart trades.

The challenge is whether there is an internal budget that prevents making certain smart trades.

KA and staff can't change the budget that the owners give them to work within.

 

[Chainshot]

That's the point, though. Do you think Pysyk can play that role, namely for Dahlin? If the answer is yes, then why not just resign him instead of investing assets other than money into a player that might not be decisively better.

The way I see it, going forward we have three puck-movers/potential difference makers in need of a partner that can let them do their thing: Dahlin, Power and Joki. So we need three non-flashy, defensively reliable partners for them: Samuelsson can be one, preferably for Joki due to handedness. Fitzgerald has looked quite decent recently, so let's say he can play that role on a third pairing e.g. with Power, at least during the latter's rookie season.

Now who's the guy for Dahlin? I've seen glimpses from Pysyk, but I want more data.
Committing to a Dahlin-Pysyk pairing for an extended period of time or even most of the rest of the season would therefore be my preferred course of action.

They need two RHD for use with Dahlin and Power going forward. I think Pysyk could be one of those guys. The issue is finding the other. Fitzgerald is not yet the sort of defenseman who should be shepherding anyone into the league - I love the kid, but he's got a lot to learn about where to be and how to get to those spots that just isn't there yet.

One way to figure it out that would be somewhat non-Sabres prior to Granato would be to actually play Dahlin and Pysyk together again with the ES TOI Dahlin's pair has been drawing. That also frees up Jokiharju to be Samuelsson's partner for a period of time to see how that works. They have the option of experimenting. Granted, this is the NHL and the Buffalo Sabres in particular, who show regularly that even when they have the opportunity, they have not done so under previous regimes (see - Reinhart at center as an example).

The challenge is whether there is an internal budget that prevents making certain smart trades.

KA and staff can't change the budget that the owners give them to work within.

Eh, that gets into areas we have no information about. It's easy to just sit back and throw stones that a trade can't be made because of unknown factors. Hell, we could say there are alien egg sacks inside a player and that's about as factually known as what the Sabres operating budget is or the directives from the team are.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

So a player, after FIVE seasons of missing the playoffs (and not just missing them, missing them by a lot), who is playing for his 3rd head coach and now is sitting in front of his 3rd GM (who has zero GM experience) , who just had a Hart trophy level season, is told "yeah we're going to rebuild again"

At that juncture, he's supposed to be like "Oh great news. More losing? Sign me up!" At what point would a player conclude that ownership doesn't know what they are doing? The hiring of Adams is a pretty logical point to make that conclusion.

that is simply not true. It was not a rebuild year in 2020 when he asked for a trade. We signed Taylor Hall. The Sabres never even mentioned rebuilding in 2020.

He was 2 years into an 8 year deal when he asked for a trade.
I expected him to honor the Max term contract he signed. Otherwise why commit to Buffalo for 8 years? Reports at the time he signed his deal said that Eichel wanted a max term contract. That was reportedly the only length/term he and the Sabres discussed.

Had he signed a bridge deal and said “I want to wait and see how things go the next few years” I would have been disappointed but at least I could’ve respected that.

 

[stokes84]

Seeing the mega trade in basketball and my first emotion is how said it is that I like hockey and things like that NEVER happen.

 

[Irie]

Do you see a difference maker in Pysyk? Not that I'm attached to anyone in particular for a possible addition outside of Petry (which has a whole other set of concerns), but they need more guys who allow the other players paired with to move the proverbial needle.

Also, this gives short shrift to Murphy's numbers up to this season and even this year, he's their highest GAR and 2nd highest DGAR on the Hawks using Evolving Hockey's numbers. Similarly, his shot suppression metrics have been good over his career and his xGA is very solid.

I honestly do not believe there would be much of a noticeable difference upgrading Pysyk to Murphy, or if it would even be an upgrade at all - sometimes roster upgrades on paper look good but fail in application, so there are no guarantees.

Hjalmarsson was rock solid for the Hawks. He played simple and smart, and replacing him with Murphy was a huge blow to their blue line.

I seem to be in the minority here, but I'd rather Adams not acquire that contract, especially at the cost of a first round pick.

The NHL draft is a crapshoot at best. Never select for position, size, or intangibles in the first round. Select the best player available with all your high picks and eventually you will hit the lottery.

Moving 1sts for Connor Murphys or Brandon Montours may make you a bubble team if you get lucky, but it won't make you a contender.

They should not be trading firsts for complimentary players until their core is ready to contend - if you are trading first round picks before then, it had better be in a package deal to bring in a legitimate difference maker, imo.

 

[Jim Bob]

Eh, that gets into areas we have no information about. It's easy to just sit back and throw stones that a trade can't be made because of unknown factors. Hell, we could say there are alien egg sacks inside a player and that's about as factually known as what the Sabres operating budget is or the directives from the team are.

It's just as easy to throw stones at KA saying "Why didn't he make that deal!!!!" when it was a no-go due to budgetary reasons.

Just like fans are guessing when it comes to how open Johnson is to signing here vs playing things out at Minnesota to his UFA because of all the other LHD in the pipeline.

 

[TehDoak]

It's just as easy to throw stones at KA saying "Why didn't he make that deal!!!!" when it was a no-go due to budgetary reasons.

Just like fans are guessing when it comes to how open Johnson is to signing here vs playing things out at Minnesota to his UFA because of all the other LHD in the pipeline.

I think in one of the previous pressers he said there was no budget restriction. I think he also thanked terry and kim for the free Timbit for him and the staff to split to celebrate the staff birthdays that month too though.

 

[Jim Bob]

I think in one of the previous pressers he said there was no budget restriction. I think he also thanked terry and kim for the free Timbit for him and the staff to split to celebrate the staff birthdays that month too though.

So, that is the one thing that you are going to take at face value?

 

[member 334057]

So, that is the one thing that you are going to take at face value?

Fits the narrative.

 

[TehDoak]

So, that is the one thing that you are going to take at face value?

Fits the narrative.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

Alright, I’ll ask. Let’s say McDavid wants out. His NMC doesn’t kick in until 7/1. What are we willing to give up?

 

[Jacob582]

Alright, I’ll ask. Let’s say McDavid wants out. His NMC doesn’t kick in until 7/1. What are we willing to give up?

Not in trade for me:
Power
Tuch
Krebs
UPL (Unless you can get some other goalies)
Would love to put Cozens here too, but that would be a prime target for them.

 

[The Blunder Years]

Alright, I’ll ask. Let’s say McDavid wants out. His NMC doesn’t kick in until 7/1. What are we willing to give up?

I think there would be teams with more “high end” or attractive pieces than we can provide. We have a lot of good but nothing incredible… maaaybe Power. Probably takes one of Dahlin/Power, one of Krebs/Cozens, another roster player or good prospect and a shit ton of high picks. I want to see us build a strong deep team first before making any moves for stars.

 

[BuffaloKatanas]

Alright, I’ll ask. Let’s say McDavid wants out. His NMC doesn’t kick in until 7/1. What are we willing to give up?

Here is the offer I would put in for McDavid. It's both quantity and quality, while allowing the Sabres to stay competitive right when McDavid arrives.

Dahlin
Mittlestadt
Portillo
Johnson
Rosen
VGK 1st
FLA 1ST
Buf 2023 2nd
PHL 2023 2nd
VGK 2023 2nd

 

[HaNotsri]

New medical staff has moved past starting goalie for me. We need two rosters otherwise.

 

[Puppa2Miller]

Not in trade for me:
Power
Tuch
Krebs
UPL (Unless you can get some other goalies)
Would love to put Cozens here too, but that would be a prime target for them.

I like all those guys, but taking any of them off the table for McDavid is sillier than the Ranger fan Eichel proposals.