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Post-Game Talk: #21 - 11/19/18 | stars @ RANGERS | 7:00 - MSG

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romba said:
Can you admit he’s been serviceable this year as a middle-bottom pair defender? Is it more than anyone of us could have hoped for? I get the bashing last year and prior since the injuries tore him apart.

The endless Staal bashing is insufferable this year. No need for the angry hate he gets.
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Can I super like this post? Last year he sucked, but apparently sucking can carry over to the next year.
At one time Marc was thought of as better than McD. Where did those supporters go to? Oh yeah, the bandwagon. And in 5 years, they'll be trashing Chytil because he only scored 35. :sarcasm:
 
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True Blue said:
I was not talking about a few supporters. I was talking about the locker room where he is a much respected elder statesman. With all that said, I think that there is something that Quinn is seeing on an everyday basis and if Stall was a continued anchor, he would sit in the not too distant a future.
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Maybe he’s trying to ruin Staal.
 
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Larrybiv said:
Can I super like this post? Last year he sucked, but apparently sucking can carry over to the next year.
At one time Marc was thought of as better than McD. Where did those supporters go to? Oh yeah, the bandwagon. And in 5 years, they'll be trashing Chytil because he only scored 35. :sarcasm:
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It’s not a bandwagon thing. Marc Staal has been objectively worse than McDonagh for a long time. And he has been better than last season, but not by much. I’ll give him credit for improving his foot speed a little bit. But the constant pinching at the wrong time and leaving his partner out to dry is getting annoying. His shot is still weak. His passes are hit or miss (mainly miss). He’s on the ice for a good amount of shots and goals against. So he’s better, but still below average. The only time I hate on him, though, is when he takes time away from our young defensemen. And I know that’s not really his fault, but it’s just annoying.
 
True Blue said:
McLeod has been fine in his role. Visible in most games. His type of play makes the younger guys notice and play a bit bigger. Anderson may just be in a numbers game. You may well need to wait to see Hayes traded before Anderson gets a role besides on the 4th line. BUT, when there, it is still up to him to get noticed.
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I don't know if we'll have to wait until Hayes is moved... at least while Zucc and Buch are still out. Strome is getting some extra time on top 9 right now while he settles in, but I have a feeling he'll be seeing 4th line duties soon. He's got a decent hockey IQ and plays well defensively... can also jump in for FO if center is thrown out or play C, his natural position. I'm all for seeing if a change in scenery and system can help him see more of his original potential, but at this point in his career I'm not sure we'll be getting too much more on the score sheet. Being a better defensive player, and younger, than Spooner I feel that it was a good deal to make because of his abilities on PK and defense.

Hoping to see Lias get a game or two with Namest and Zib, similar to Chytil getting time with Kreider and Hayes. He has familiarity with Zib from international play and Names is showing to be a very hard worker as he has settled in.

While Zucc and Buch are out, I'd like to see:

Names-Zib-Lias
Kreider-Hayes-Chytil
Vesey-Howden-Fast
McL-Fogie-Strome

Not my decision...haha... but I'd like to see that setup for a game or two. Still hoping for a Chytil-Howden-Buch line when everyone is healthy to see if there is any chemistry there.
 
People keep saying Staal has been solid and I haven't bothered to look because I don't like looking at Staal, but I looked.

Staal is currently sporting a very good rel GF% of +5.12, a pedestrian rel xGF% of +0.84, and a pretty meh rel CF% of -2.66.

Are those numbers good? Not really. But are they NHL numbers? Absolutely. He's been an NHL player this year according to the results.

He still doesn't pass the eye test for me and I expect the numbers to drop, but others have liked his game.
 
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Machinehead said:
People keep saying Staal has been solid and I haven't bothered to look because I don't like looking at Staal, but I looked.

Staal is currently sporting a very good rel GF% of +5.12, a pedestrian rel xGF% of +0.84, and a pretty meh rel CF% of -2.66.

Are those numbers good? Not really. But are they NHL numbers? Absolutely. He's been an NHL player this year according to the results.

He still doesn't pass the eye test for me and I expect the numbers to drop, but others have liked his game.
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Until you look at his PK results.

He's been like historically bad on the PK.
 
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Machinehead said:
As for Pionk's analytics, we'll just keep those in a locked vault and pretend they don't exist.

This post never happened.
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the key will be comparing those stats from the first 1/4 of the season to the 3rd and 4th quarters to see if he is learning and trending the right way.
 
Leetch3 said:
the key will be comparing those stats from the first 1/4 of the season to the 3rd and 4th quarters to see if he is learning and trending the right way.
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This.

He's looked pretty poor in his own end with out even looking at the analytics. I want to see how he looks away from Staal though.
 
Machinehead said:
I think Quinn is hesitant to use guys like Shattenkirk and DeAngelo because it's unconventional and then it's his ass on the line.

But at this point, do we have anything to lose?
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it seems to me that coach Q just does this....

whatever situation it is ... play pionk. alot.

then fills in from there and so staal is his partner and so thats who plays.

simple.
 
Machinehead said:
I think Quinn is hesitant to use guys like Shattenkirk and DeAngelo because it's unconventional and then it's his ass on the line.

But at this point, do we have anything to lose?
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not sure how playing pionk on the pk is any different that deangelo...both can be sold as a young being put in situations to learn and grow...

and i'd personally like to see those 2 played in similar situations to give us a fair comparison
 
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Machinehead said:
As for Pionk's analytics, we'll just keep those in a locked vault and pretend they don't exist.

This post never happened.
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And guard that vault with a balrog.
MerryWideeyedAustraliancattledog-small.gif
 
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Staals advanced stats back up what I’ve seen.

He should be limited on the PK and get second pair minutes and you’ve got yourself a slightly below average NHL defender getting paid unfortunately at a very above average rate.

We’re literally wringing all we can from him, and he’s dropping nickels when I expected pennies back. Yes the bar is set very low, but I’ll take it!
 
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Maybe there's a method to the 'madness'. Playing 4th line, is not for them to produce offensively. It's to lay the foundation to their game that is needed. They play on the 4th until they're consistently doing the 'right thing' and playing the 'right way'.

It seems to have worked for Chytil, so why are we questioning it? He had top9 opportunity to begin the year and once again when he was moved to wing... It didn't work.

Quinn is handling Andersson the same way now. He's been working miracles with the players he scratches... How about we give him the benefit of the doubt. This isn't AV
 
What Door said:
Easy there, cowboy. Claesson has played all of 9 games. Hunwick played well for us for 55.

They were both scrap-heap 7D additions that surpassed expectations due to good skating and surprising awareness. My comparison was more a broad strokes one based on the role they seized on the team, versus expectations, rather than strictly a play style one.

But it's cool you're ready to anoint Claesson as the better player based on a 9-game sample size. I certainly hope he is, though. That would be awesome for us.
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How much does it take to be better than Matt Hunwick honestly?
 
romba said:
Can you admit he’s been serviceable this year as a middle-bottom pair defender? Is it more than anyone of us could have hoped for? I get the bashing last year and prior since the injuries tore him apart.

The endless Staal bashing is insufferable this year. No need for the angry hate he gets.
Click to expand...

I'll never understand the users here who endlessly bash players even when they have a good game or show signs of improvement. Just look at this conversation I had LAST YEAR with user "Go Away Staal": (Source Link)
Go Away Staal said:
[Zucc] is this generation's Ryan Callahan, albeit a better version.
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Zucc: Led the team in points last season and 4 seasons out of the last 5, gets compared to Callahan
Hayes: Scored 25 goals last year and noticeably improves his game each season, people want him traded for a late first round pick
Staal: The only defenseman that hasn't been scratched by DQ, but people here are so confident their valuations of him are more accurate than DQ's

Just ignore them, it's comical how out of touch they are despite their post count.

What Door said:
Easy there, cowboy. Claesson has played all of 9 games. Hunwick played well for us for 55.

They were both scrap-heap 7D additions that surpassed expectations due to good skating and surprising awareness. My comparison was more a broad strokes one based on the role they seized on the team, versus expectations, rather than strictly a play style one.

But it's cool you're ready to anoint Claesson as the better player based on a 9-game sample size. I certainly hope he is, though. That would be awesome for us.
Click to expand...

Claesson has played more than 9 games in the league tho, he was actually used as a top-pairing guy in Ottawa. Someone recently compared him to Stralman which I think is an excellent comparable.
 
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romba said:
Staals advanced stats back up what I’ve seen.

He should be limited on the PK and get second pair minutes and you’ve got yourself a slightly below average NHL defender getting paid unfortunately at a very above average rate.

We’re literally wringing all we can from him, and he’s dropping nickels when I expected pennies back. Yes the bar is set very low, but I’ll take it!
Click to expand...

No he’s still dropping pennies.

He should be an extra or at most, a seldom used bottom pair guy.
 
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